Harvesting too early?

Susanne · Sep 9, 2017

This is our 2nd grow. The first was bag seeds, and produced all different kinds of plants. When we harvested them, none of them had tight buds......the calyces weren't filled out, but I figured it was due to the poor quality weed. We had a small scope and it was hard to tell if the trichomes were cloudy enough or not.

So, this year, I purchased A-47 (47 days)and Afghan (76 days)seeds. One of the "Afghan" was NOT an Afghan, as it grew totally different from the others, and matured last week...about 3 weeks ahead of the AK-47's. We only had the small scope again, and my hubby and I disagreed if they were cloudy or not....and cut the plant....Well, even though we don't know what strain it is, I'm sure it's a good one, so it should have tight buds, shouldn't it? The buds are NOT tight at all, and I'm VERY disappointed. I think we chopped down the entire plant too early. The calyces are not full. I have 7 more plants to go, and want to do them right.....

We now have a better scope, and have also learned that we can see the trichcomes better if we cut a little off and bring them inside & look....so, maybe we'll get it right next time.

SO, my question is: if the calyces are not full, is the plant NOT ready?

GroErr · Sep 9, 2017

Some pics would help determine if they were too early. Many harvest early based on trichs, while it's one way to tell maturity it can be deceiving. That Afghan you mention could be just pheno variation, depending on how the line was worked and what generation they are (F1/F2/F3 etc.), you could have significant variation in one pack of seeds.

When looking at trichs, don't bother with them until the plant has fully matured. That means the "hairs" around the buds should be brown/redish in colour and receded (curled in).

Here's some examples of ready and not ready buds. If you scoped the trichs on any of these, they could be looking "ready" while they're not fully matured in the second set of pics.

Ready to harvest:

Not ready to harvest (notice how many white hairs are left on these):

Susanne · Sep 9, 2017

Thanks. I've been reading & reading & looking at pictures & videos...trying to learn as much as I can. I do know about the white vs red/brown hairs & when they recede. The hairs had mostly receded. I also have learned a lot about the trichomes and clear, cloudy and amber (even though it's much easier when looking at a photo than when looking at a real plant). My MAIN question is: should the buds be TIGHT, and the calyces full? If they are loose, like the little popcorn ones, are they NOT ready? Or, does that not have so much to do with it, and am I just over concerned? (I would really like to get some buds like we got in the dispensaries! That would make my day!)

& thanks for the photos, too! the more the better.....learn, learn learn!

Jypsy Dog · Sep 9, 2017

SoOLED · Sep 9, 2017

I just use a x40 jewelers loupe. the standard is half-white/half-amber. (10% clear)

but you can harvest to taste: clear is more peppy, white head-high, and amber is couch lock. this is just IME, others might have other thoughts/data.

it is variable from strain to strain, that's why some growers who have stuck to one strain for a long time, can really dial it in to some amazing results.

I am very bad at this, but keeping track of the days, also helps, especially when you have some ballpark breeder data.

most plants will mature differently, by weeks at times.

clones, will be ready closer together, which the exception of light position: clones is the only way to more even(ish) harvest date.

GroErr · Sep 9, 2017

Susanne said:
Thanks. I've been reading & reading & looking at pictures & videos...trying to learn as much as I can. I do know about the white vs red/brown hairs & when they recede. The hairs had mostly receded. I also have learned a lot about the trichomes and clear, cloudy and amber (even though it's much easier when looking at a photo than when looking at a real plant). My MAIN question is: should the buds be TIGHT, and the calyces full? If they are loose, like the little popcorn ones, are they NOT ready? Or, does that not have so much to do with it, and am I just over concerned? (I would really like to get some buds like we got in the dispensaries! That would make my day!)

& thanks for the photos, too! the more the better.....learn, learn learn!

The tight bud question is variable by strain and phenotypes within a strain. In general most of what I run (usually have 12-16 strains on the go) tightens up/get dense around the last 7-10 days. But there's always exceptions in strains and phenotypes, a lot of pure sativas are fluffy buds no matter how you grow them in comparison to indicas and hybrids. I've also run hybrids from seed (in the exact same space and environment) where some phenos are nice tight buds and some are fluffy. Environment variables and lighting can make a significant difference to density as well. Those blurple (purple light, diode-based) LED's tend to grow fluffy buds for instance compared to hps, CMH, or newer LED techs like COBs or Quantum boards. I've run blurples, CMH, and COBs and all produced different density with the same strain/clone. Even smell and taste varies with lighting tech.

PeterBudd · Sep 9, 2017

Hi guys, I am new to the forum and have a couple of questions regarding my two female friends. I am growing in a new climate, outdoors, summer was great with lost of sun and no rain at all. But it is quite humid here. Recently I discovered two caterpillars on the plant, had to get rid of them and the parts they attacked. And I think the ladies were also attacked by some sort of mites (not sure if its was spider mites, but I had a couple of pepper, lemon and tomato plants around). Anyways, in a sort of panic attack I chopped down most leaves, since the ladies are developing great anyways. I know this is not recommended, but the ladies are bouncing back and they don't seem to be stressed at all. I think that it is about time to harvest. As I like the high high, don't mean to wait for the 50-50 milky-amber ratio. But I am not 100% sure. On one of the ladies, the trichomes on the head seem to decline. The other plant is pumping and smells like hell. As I can see with my loupe (10x) on both of them most of the trichomes have turned milky, with some amber spots here and there. Compared to other pictures I found researching, the pistils on my ladies are 50% orange; but only half-through the pistil. And they also look much thicker compared to other examples. So much to the description, I also uploaded a couple of pics. Tell me what you think. Are they ready to be cut down, or do I have to wait? And if so, how many more days do you think I should wait? And for experts: can you guess what strain this is, I got the seeds from a friend who did not know much about it.

CriticalCheeze · Sep 10, 2017

Hairs are a good indicator but not that deciding factor. some strains spit pistils right until you cut it. Look at the trichomes with a mag glass/loupe. Also foxtailing will start happening on the colas.

CriticalCheeze · Sep 10, 2017

PeterBudd said:
Hi guys, I am new to the forum and have a couple of questions regarding my two female friends. I am growing in a new climate, outdoors, summer was great with lost of sun and no rain at all. But it is quite humid here. Recently I discovered two caterpillars on the plant, had to get rid of them and the parts they attacked. And I think the ladies were also attacked by some sort of mites (not sure if its was spider mites, but I had a couple of pepper, lemon and tomato plants around). Anyways, in a sort of panic attack I chopped down most leaves, since the ladies are developing great anyways. I know this is not recommended, but the ladies are bouncing back and they don't seem to be stressed at all. I think that it is about time to harvest. As I like the high high, don't mean to wait for the 50-50 milky-amber ratio. But I am not 100% sure. On one of the ladies, the trichomes on the head seem to decline. The other plant is pumping and smells like hell. As I can see with my loupe (10x) on both of them most of the trichomes have turned milky, with some amber spots here and there. Compared to other pictures I found researching, the pistils on my ladies are 50% orange; but only half-through the pistil. And they also look much thicker compared to other examples. So much to the description, I also uploaded a couple of pics. Tell me what you think. Are they ready to be cut down, or do I have to wait? And if so, how many more days do you think I should wait? And for experts: can you guess what strain this is, I got the seeds from a friend who did not know much about it.

(what strain)
Almost impossible to fiqure that out.

Those still have some time to go. Wait until you see mostly cloudy. I'm not really big into the whole wait for amber thing.
Amber is THC past its peak. Which breaks down into CBN. Which just makes you feel lethargic and lazy. Different than CBD.

Susanne · Sep 10, 2017

GroErr said:
The tight bud question is variable by strain and phenotypes within a strain. In general most of what I run (usually have 12-16 strains on the go) tightens up/get dense around the last 7-10 days. But there's always exceptions in strains and phenotypes, a lot of pure sativas are fluffy buds no matter how you grow them in comparison to indicas and hybrids. I've also run hybrids from seed (in the exact same space and environment) where some phenos are nice tight buds and some are fluffy. Environment variables and lighting can make a significant difference to density as well. Those blurple (purple light, diode-based) LED's tend to grow fluffy buds for instance compared to hps, CMH, or newer LED techs like COBs or Quantum boards. I've run blurples, CMH, and COBs and all produced different density with the same strain/clone. Even smell and taste varies with lighting tech.

Thanks! THAT is what I've been wanting to know. I was SO disappointed when my buds were ALL almost like popcorn, and thought I'd really blown it by harvesting way too early. I'm ill, and my symptoms are why I smoke/eat. I (very unfortunately) don't get "high" any more

. I can only tell how strong it is by how more 'stupid' I get.. LOL... Most of it is just the same as another. The weed helps my nausea and some with my pain. I haven't gotten any strains yet that help the pain (I"m not in a legal state, so I can't just go down and try different ones, just buy from whomever). SO, that's why I'm growing my first strain ever that might help with the pain. The AK 47, which isn't the one that's the best one, is coming due soon, and the Afghan is in another 6-7 weeks. It's Indica, and is supposed to help pain & Migraines. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble with those plants. They've lost most of their fan leaves... They have buds, but not that many. that's another thread.

I've had one previous grow with bag seeds; all different sorts of plants and different, but about the same level of buzz. I'm growing a lot for edibles since my head doesn't get as loopy with edibles as with smoking. Although, I've noticed a little more with homemade than with the candy I bought in the dispensaries. I've also been diagnosed with high blood sugar, so now I can't get any of those any more, and have to learn how to make tincture to make sugar-free hard candy

. So far, I've ventured into cannabutter and sugar free peanut butter cookies. mmm mmm good. I'm using what's left from my first crop from 2 years ago. Not fresh or tasty before the peanut butter, but not too shabby

.

GroErr · Sep 10, 2017

Susanne said:
Thanks! THAT is what I've been wanting to know. I was SO disappointed when my buds were ALL almost like popcorn, and thought I'd really blown it by harvesting way too early. I'm ill, and my symptoms are why I smoke/eat. I (very unfortunately) don't get "high" any more . I can only tell how strong it is by how more 'stupid' I get.. LOL... Most of it is just the same as another. The weed helps my nausea and some with my pain. I haven't gotten any strains yet that help the pain (I"m not in a legal state, so I can't just go down and try different ones, just buy from whomever). SO, that's why I'm growing my first strain ever that might help with the pain. The AK 47, which isn't the one that's the best one, is coming due soon, and the Afghan is in another 6-7 weeks. It's Indica, and is supposed to help pain & Migraines. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble with those plants. They've lost most of their fan leaves... They have buds, but not that many. that's another thread.

I've had one previous grow with bag seeds; all different sorts of plants and different, but about the same level of buzz. I'm growing a lot for edibles since my head doesn't get as loopy with edibles as with smoking. Although, I've noticed a little more with homemade than with the candy I bought in the dispensaries. I've also been diagnosed with high blood sugar, so now I can't get any of those any more, and have to learn how to make tincture to make sugar-free hard candy . So far, I've ventured into cannabutter and sugar free peanut butter cookies. mmm mmm good. I'm using what's left from my first crop from 2 years ago. Not fresh or tasty before the peanut butter, but not too shabby .

You're probably just seeing some fluffier phenotypes, light tech that isn't up to par for your space, or a combo.

From seed (regular photos), to account for variation in strains I look at a 10-pack to get 1, maybe 2 phenotypes that I like, including density, quality/potency, yield etc. If they're feminized I've always found something decent in a 5-pack from top breeders. Sometimes you get lucky and hit a good pheno right away, but generally you have to hunt through a pack to find a good one.

For your migraines and pain you'll probably find more relief in edibles like the tinctures/edibles you mentioned, you're on the right path there. Most of what I grow gets turned into sift then mixed with coconut oil to make capsules at different strengths. CBD strains tend to work well for me with migraines. I keep some of my sift separate like my CBD strains so I can make low dose caps specifically for migraines.

Here's my recipe for sift infused coconut oil pills and the end result of a double batch. I use the sift so I can measure dosage more consistently as you're stripping all the beneficial cannabinoids and terpenes from the flower.

oldfogey420 · Sep 10, 2017

Susanne said:
So, this year, I purchased A-47 (47 days)and Afghan (76 days)seeds. One of the "Afghan" was NOT an Afghan, as it grew totally different from the others, and matured last week...about 3 weeks ahead of the AK-47's.

Am I missing something here? You're saying the ak is a 47 day strain? And you harvested a plant 3 weeks before that 47 day strain was due for harvest? Which puts that harvested plant at 26 days into flower? Did I read into this right? If so, you harvested that plant when it wasn't even half way through its flower cycle. Actually only about 1/3 if i read that correctly. Please tell me I'm just too baked and reading this wrong...

oldfogey420 · Sep 12, 2017

Surprised to not hear a response from the op yet. Did anyone else read this the same as i did? Im stone cold sober at the moment, and still think i read that right. Harvested at 26 days flower.

As for that one plant growing differently than the others, most seed packs will have more than one pheno. Some seed packs can contain many phenos. So your afghan was likely still afghan, just a very different pheno from the others you grew out. I dont know of any strain that would be done flowering in under a month. Even if somehow a seed from a different strain got mixed in, you still harvested too early. Very few strains will be done in fewer than 8 weeks. Mind you, i'm not trying to make you feel bad about it. We all make mistakes. Learn from them!

Susanne · Sep 14, 2017

oldfogey420 said:
Am I missing something here? You're saying the ak is a 47 day strain? And you harvested a plant 3 weeks before that 47 day strain was due for harvest? Which puts that harvested plant at 26 days into flower? Did I read into this right? If so, you harvested that plant when it wasn't even half way through its flower cycle. Actually only about 1/3 if i read that correctly. Please tell me I'm just too baked and reading this wrong...

Nope. you aren't missing anything. And, sorry it took me so long.... had housecleaning one day, dog to vet another day and internet down yesterday......agggghhhhhh!!

Anyway, the plant that matured was SUPPOSED to be an Afghan, which is supposed to take 76 days. One grew totally different than the others. It was half as tall (the others still have another month to go) when it was mature. It was HEAVY with buds to the point we had to tie it up before Hurricane Harvey. (We had a LOT of tying up to do for that!). I planted the seeds mid March, and this plant matured last week, which is about 2-3 weeks before the AK 47's, which are 47 day. I don't know when to start counting the days........ That's something I can't find anywhere. Is it when the 'hairs' start looking like buds? But when is "day 1"?

At any rate, I think I got another strain. It's good stuff, at least

.

BTW, aren't I supposed to be getting emails when a thread I start gets replies? I'm not.

Jypsy Dog · Sep 14, 2017

Susanne said:
BTW, aren't I supposed to be getting emails when a thread I start gets replies? I'm not.

You need to adjust your notifications. Go to your profile page.

Susanne · Sep 14, 2017

Jypsy Dog said:
You need to adjust your notifications. Go to your profile page.

Thanks, I did, and everything is checked to alert me for everything answered......????? But, I haven't gotten an email in a long time for any answers to threads I'm following, etc.

Jypsy Dog · Sep 14, 2017

Susanne said:
Thanks, I did, and everything is checked to alert me for everything answered......????? But, I haven't gotten an email in a long time for any answers to threads I'm following, etc.

Did you get this one?

oldfogey420 · Sep 14, 2017

I have a feeling you still sold yourself short on that one. Regardless of how big the buds may have been, it likely still had a long ways to go. Could have been that elusive 1 in 100 pheno that grows MONSTER buds. Who knows!

I always wait to see the triches on the calyxes just starting to turn from cloudy to amber. Maybe 10% amber, give or take. Then I know for sure that she's ready. Anyways, i hope the smoke cures what ails you and wish you the best of luck for the rest of your grow!

Susanne · Sep 14, 2017

Jypsy Dog said:
You need to adjust your notifications. Go to your profile page.

Thanks, I did, and everything is checked to alert me for everything answered......????? But, I haven't gotten an email in a long time for any answers to threads I'm following, etc

Jypsy Dog said:
Did you get this one?

no. I just checked, and I posted several places today, and no emails.... maybe I'll uncheck everything and then re-submit it...who knows?

Harvesting too early?

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