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Having an issue with my chiller not turning off.

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by Airwalker16, Nov 5, 2017.

  1.  
    HydroRed

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    Sorry man, I'm still leaning towards a temp sensor probe issue. What else tells the heater to turn on or actuate the heater relay? The relays are all obviously working if both are coming on. Its the turning off part thats not right for the cooler relay. So what tells the cooling relay to turn off? Why would the heat even be kicking on in the first place? It's never done this before correct? The only thing those 2 relays have in common is the temp sensor.
    pic - Copy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  2.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    The stupid heater relay is honestly more just a pain in my ass than anything. It's for an external heater cartridge that you would Place say in your fish tank so that if the water becomes too cold, there's a two prong outlet on the back of the machine that receives power to turn on the heater to raise the temperature up.
     
  3.  
    HydroRed

    HydroRed Well-Known Member

    Even so, the cooler relay is still told what to do by the temp probe correct? The cooling relay resets when you unplug it, so its not welded together inside the relay and staying on all the time correct?
     
  4.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    I'm I'm kind of confused on how these even really work. Because to me I thought that if one side of the pole on a relay are working on the other isn't that would mean it's not receiving power or open. But when the red light comes on and I hear the click that's when this happens. Before any clicks all of the poles are receiving 13.6 volts. Then after the click three of the four poles are receiving 12.5.
     
  5.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    BTW @dstroy that Jollyrancher2 guy has been replying a lot on that other forum if you wanna see what he's been saying. he swears it's the temp probe. I'm not so sure.
     
  6.  
    dstroy

    dstroy Well-Known Member

    You verified that the temperature readout on the chiller is correct across the range of temperatures in which it operates correct?

    That's all it does, it's a sensor, specifically its' resistance value changes with the temperature. Which the microcontroller senses, and the microcontroller is what tells both relays what to do, so actually they have quite a bit more in common (electrically) than just a temperature sensor.

    If the readout agrees with your other thermometer no matter what the water temp is, then it is not the temperature sensor. IE if you measure water temp with a thermometer and it says 60, and the readout on the chiller says 60 then the temperature sensor is not malfunctioning. They need to be the same, if the temperature on the thermometer says 65 and the readout on the chiller says 58 then the temperature sensor is suspect.

    It's very hard for me to try and explain what you need to do and why, because I haven't had to do that for a long time. Everyone that I work with knows what different electronic components are and how to perform tests correctly, and how to follow procedures. So it's been challenging, but I think I have helped you as much as I can.

    There are 5 pins on those relays, two for the coil, NC NO and COM. It looks like the hole for the NC pin is unpopulated so you would have to cut that one.

    The voltage is dropping because there's a load on the circuit when both relays are active.
     
  7.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    yes the temperature readout on the machine is always correct to my separate thermometer that I use to test the temperature of the water.
    It's weird that you can change the displayed temp if it is reading wrong though . . up to +/- 4*. so if it reads 66 but a separate thermometer is reading as 63, you can manually adjust it on the machine. I wonder why they have that feature? a whole 8* difference is a looot. so which relay are you thinking is the one to replace?
    I'm going to let the water warmup and then see if I can hear/feel the relay click when it starts chilling too and see if it's the Opposite relay than the one that loses power to one of its poles upon the heater light going solid red.
     
  8.  
    dstroy

    dstroy Well-Known Member

    You can change it because the sensors are all a little different electrically, even from the same manufacturer. “Calibration” calibrate it against a known good value, like another thermometer.
     
  9.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    Ya that makes sense. but this is jut something I want to fix so bad it's been driving me crazy for months. it was doing this a while back,, then stopped and worked great until just recently starting up again.
     
  10.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    So I just went back to it after letting the temperature warm up a bit. I set it to 66 as the temperature was at 68. Just to make a point to you the fan was blowing as soon as I plugged it in. But as the green Chiller light was flashing, as soon as it went solid I definitely heard and felt the relay click. And like I thought the opposite relay from before is now doing the same thing. Pole 1 is receiving NO power and 2, 3 and 4 all are. When the heater one clicked, it was poles 1, 2, & 4. so...

    I just did it again and physically held the probes from the voltmeter on j9 and Pole 1 and as the green light was flashing as soon as it went solid it went straight to zero, I also then turn my set temp up to 69 and immediately that pole 1 received power again and as the red light was flashing once it went solid I heard the click and pole 3 went straight down to zero. So I'm assuming all of my relays are working. It has to be something else?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  11.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    What else could be keeping this fan and compressor on ALL THE TIME if my relays are functioning correctly?
     
  12.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    What are these for? 20171109_140132.jpg 20171109_140153.jpg
     
  13.  
    dstroy

    dstroy Well-Known Member

  14.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    Hm... ok. so from what I've told you above, do you agree my relays are working?
     
  15.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    Sun light supply seems to think my board is just fucked up.
     
    dstroy likes this.
  16.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    This ^
     
  17.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    I hope you know that I'm not trying to make you admit that what you thought was going on was wrong or anything like that. I just really don't understand these electronic things and really just want to have it verified by you as not the problem so I can eliminate it and try to figure out what it really is.
     
  18.  
    dstroy

    dstroy Well-Known Member

    Earlier I said they were the most likely problem, because they are. They're the only thing that moves, and they are designed to cycle only so many times. Therefore they are the most likely culprit. I can't verify they are bad without being there, that's up to you. You should have been doing tons of research on how to test them and everything else you wanted to on your own.

    It could be something else on the board, such as the microcontroller, which I already said. You need to troubleshoot further, and I can't help you because I'm not trying to give you a crash course in basic electronic troubleshooting. Doing what you want requires some understanding of what the different components on that pcb are, what they do, how they work together, and what to do to test them.

    So, personally, I would have tested the relay, then if I verified the relay was good I would test the next thing in line which is the transistor that switches the 12v to the coil, then back to the pin on the microcontroller. But I already talked about all that stuff. Something is making the relay stay on all the time, because the compressor/fan wouldn't be on without that relay being closed.

    I got no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I never pointed you the wrong way so.... The relays could be good, but then its the associated circuitry and I'm not the one to help you find it. If you're really interested you should start watching some circuit operation and troubleshooting videos, and check out some books from the library.
     
  19.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    I guess it will forever be broken and will have to just rely on an external temperature relay. Or a timer for 2hours off, 1 hour on.
     

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