Health care reform
- Thread starter kappainf
- Start date
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking the time to read my little story jeff. While I'm sure there are exceptions, you're probably correct about people enjoying government entitlement programs. Not trying to completely sabotage your argument, but you probably won't hear any complaints from people who took advantage of Cash for Clunkers or the 1st time home buyers program either. The complaints will most likely come from those who have to pay the staggering debt left by said entitlements, but I digress.
It probably got lost in the story, however, my intended point wasn't that Medicare had declined her knee replacement (although it is pertinent), it was that Humana DID pay for everything, with a very mild deductible. And that the unabashed and completely exposed agenda of the progressive health care reform movement is to eliminate private insurance companies and move to a government controlled single payer system. If we were there right now, she WOULD NOT be getting a new knee, she would be living in pain with restricted mobility. It's not a matter of maybe, it's an absolute certainty.
And to any who may argue that elimination of the insurance companies isn't part of the agenda, I say, bullshit... don't bother. If you want to remove the profit (and you do) from the industry, then they will absolutely go away. Then all that is left is you, the government bureaucracy and your rejection letter. No options and no way to get it back. NO THANKS.
jeffchr
Well-Known Member
Something has to be done. The health care situation has gone "mad" in this country, under the control of the insurance companies. It is easy to say government mis-handles everything. It's not so easy to come up with viable alternatives. Alternatives that control costs.
I own a small business. My largest expense is wages, as we are a consulting company, primarily. My second largest cost is health insurance. I've got 6 people on staff. The health insurance is $50,000 per year. It is a $2,000 deductible plan with a 20% copay. So, between the insurance and beneficiary costs it can add up to $62,000 per year; and that does not include the 20% co-pay. We had one claim last year; a birth. Are you kidding me?
Medicare was never intended to cover everything. It was designed to work in conjunction with supplemental insurance. You can't fairly attribute the medicare policies to a public option. They are two different issues, with potentially different solutions.
jeff f
New Member
i think we all agree with this. the methods are the problem. eliminating competition by turning everrything over to the govt is clearly not the answer.
abe23
Active Member
How about eliminating profits from the equation. I don't see how we need competition when all these companies are supposed to do is pool risk and pay your bills for you when you get sick. Why should the stockholders and management of these companies be making a profit from that? What's in it for you and me, the recipient of said healthcare?
jeff f
New Member
because profit is what makes efficiency. govt workers who all belong to unions, cant be fired, sitting behind a desk will not promote better service of anytype. i worked for the govt in different capacity for 22 years now. the last thing a govt worker is interested in is improving efficiency. not all but most.
i think a couple tweeks that would prove successful is interstate insurance sales, promoting (tax incentives) small health centers as pay-as-u-go, tort reform to name a few.
and absolutely fining and throwing people in jail for not buying somehting will prove to be atrocious on the system.
some libs want to take peoples kids away for being fat. imagine what these libs will attack when everyone is in "their" system for health.
trip to mcdonalds...."hey fatty, i am paying for your healthcare, put down the double burger".
trip to the mountains...."hey you hanggliding mother fucker, i aint paying for your medical bills when you break your neck"
trip to the supermarket...."hey buddy, you better wear you helmet while you are on that motorcycle because if i see you wreck, i will let you bleed to death so i dont have to pay for your surgery"
while some of these sound extreme, look at some of the taxes they have imposed concerned with health, cigs tax, alcohol, soda tax, outlaw food products at fast food joints.
the very nature of all this will be that a tax will be placed on you for your lifestyle risks. drive a motorcycle, pay higher fee. eat fast food, pay more, injured skateboarding? real risky activity....pay more. they will be able to control every aspect o your life cuz its now tied to your health.
and dont be fooled, they could care less how healthy you are. they are just looking for ways to dip into your pocket and continue to feed the govt monster.
abe23
Active Member
Why do you need competition for health insurance? All they have to do is pay your bills for you and collect your money. It's not rocket science....
And if it's your right not to get health insurance, then it should be my right not to have to pay for your care at the emergency room if you have an accident or ss disability if you become ill. But that's not the way it works. And that's a good thing because we would be a pretty shitty society if we let that happen. That's why you need to be required to buy insurance.
And if it's your right not to get health insurance, then it should be my right not to have to pay for your care at the emergency room if you have an accident or ss disability if you become ill. But that's not the way it works. And that's a good thing because we would be a pretty shitty society if we let that happen. That's why you need to be required to buy insurance.
jeff f
New Member
thats the point, in a govt run system you WILL have to pay for my medical coverage.
now we are just stuck paying for non-insurees emergency room visits.
under a single payer system, i am responsible for paying for knee surguries for football players, head injuries to motor cycle riders, cholesterol lowering drugs to people who eat too much chocolate...you name it.
and as far as profit, food is necessary for health. why should grocery stores make a profit?
how about everything in a CVS drug store....mostly all needed for good health. why should they make a profit.
jeffchr
Well-Known Member
i am for anything that works. i've been for the public option because the system is so broken. It's clear that something progressive is needed to restore some equilibrium and fairness. Health insurance companies used to be non-profit and the system worked quite well. I remember having good options and expensive but not prohibitive costs. When these insurance companies became for profit, wall street cash sucking greedy swindling con-artists, well just about then, things started going south.
CrackerJax
New Member
Yes, the finest health care in the world is broken 
You think it's broken? You haven't seen anything yet.
Now you will get to pay taxes for 4 years before ever receiving a policy. Then 6 years later, the costs EXPLODE upwards and never stop, and services start getting cut and never stop.
Yepper, the Democratic party has really screwed the USA over good.
Let's just hope we can repeal this nonsense before permanent damage occurs.
You think it's broken? You haven't seen anything yet.
Now you will get to pay taxes for 4 years before ever receiving a policy. Then 6 years later, the costs EXPLODE upwards and never stop, and services start getting cut and never stop.
Yepper, the Democratic party has really screwed the USA over good.
Let's just hope we can repeal this nonsense before permanent damage occurs.
canefan
Well-Known Member
Yes the system is broken without a doubt and in 2014 you are going to findout how really broke it is going to be. Health insurance or the lack of it was the main reason I moved away from the US and now they want to make me buy it while I live in another country? What happened to free enterprise and self responsibility? I have had several heart attacks (genetics not fat or unhealthy living) and a few strokes, I was unable to get health insurance for any price. Now, they want to make me buy it or pay a fine?
The government runs one program pretty well, the military, period. There are many solutions to the problem ranging from interstate competition, tort reform, capping profits not eliminating them. Health insurance which doesn't cover all needs like every doctor visit. Before you go ballistic think about this, does your car insurance pay for oil changes? What would your car insurance be priced at if everytime you needed an oil change you thought your policy should pay? This is true also for health care.
I live in Costa Rica now and pay for all of my own medical coverage and save money. Why? One of the first things you will find that it is hard to sue for malpractice, if you want to sue you pay a 10% fee of the damages you are seeking. This stops most frivilous lawsuits before they happen. We also have two types of health care here private and social, which is great and works well for the people here.
My last heart attack here two years ago cost me a total of $600. Last heart attack in the states which gave me basically the same care I received in Costa Rica my copay was over $35K. My meds in the US were running over $500 a month copay, here without any insurance and buying my own meds I spend less than $200, go figure the exact same meds.
Yes we need to do something, maybe with some well placed thoughout regulations the system can be fixed. There are no easy fixes as long as the American people think health care is a right and everything should be given to them. Fixing some greed from the companies, cap profits, much like we do for the utility companies. Keep the government out of the day to day operation of insurance programs, taking lobbying out of the legislation. Most of all stay involved in the process with your legislatures and vote.
The government runs one program pretty well, the military, period. There are many solutions to the problem ranging from interstate competition, tort reform, capping profits not eliminating them. Health insurance which doesn't cover all needs like every doctor visit. Before you go ballistic think about this, does your car insurance pay for oil changes? What would your car insurance be priced at if everytime you needed an oil change you thought your policy should pay? This is true also for health care.
I live in Costa Rica now and pay for all of my own medical coverage and save money. Why? One of the first things you will find that it is hard to sue for malpractice, if you want to sue you pay a 10% fee of the damages you are seeking. This stops most frivilous lawsuits before they happen. We also have two types of health care here private and social, which is great and works well for the people here.
My last heart attack here two years ago cost me a total of $600. Last heart attack in the states which gave me basically the same care I received in Costa Rica my copay was over $35K. My meds in the US were running over $500 a month copay, here without any insurance and buying my own meds I spend less than $200, go figure the exact same meds.
Yes we need to do something, maybe with some well placed thoughout regulations the system can be fixed. There are no easy fixes as long as the American people think health care is a right and everything should be given to them. Fixing some greed from the companies, cap profits, much like we do for the utility companies. Keep the government out of the day to day operation of insurance programs, taking lobbying out of the legislation. Most of all stay involved in the process with your legislatures and vote.
WhateverOne
Active Member
ice add!
Personally i think the "research" here above is one sided... As far as i know british healthcare is at the top of the world.. I never heard anyone of my british friends complaining over it.. the wait times are wayyy over real times..
the doctors wages in england are based on the amount of help they did to society.. and this is one of the best ways i learned so far.. because if you go see a doctor and this doctor tells you you need surgery, can you really be sure if you need it or has the doctor to much outstanding depts so he needs to increase his income.. You cant trust healthcare in combination with profit..
but that is british system.. I can only rely on statements from other people..
So then the belgium healthcare.. It is also a governmential institution here.. and since ive got to learn allot over it the past year i think that it tops a private sector by far..
I never recall having to wait longer than 1.5 hrs to be helped at any hospital.. And if you dont want to wait that long there is a private sector also.. since ive got a motorcycle accident a year ago and had plenty of scans/doctor visits to undergo i think i can speak of my own experience..
If i lived in the US now and didnt got enough income to buy me a medical insurance i would be screwed over big time.. Doctor/hospital bills going over the roof while income would decrease severe because of not being able to work..
So if i did live in the US i think id be homeless by now (without an insurance)..
i think its a facist thing to say that society doesnt need to pay the bills of healthcare for those that cant pay it themselves.. A bit like the nazis were planning on assassinating all of the handicapt people cause this saves the country allot of money..
WhateverOne
Active Member
Ah and i forgot the urgent cases.. like at the time of my motorcycle accident itself.. i didnt need to wait at all and i wasnt exactly bleeding to death...
Thats called emergency cases.. like anyone that has urgent need of medical help.. i dont trust those sources for one bit..
Thats called emergency cases.. like anyone that has urgent need of medical help.. i dont trust those sources for one bit..
The last time I went to get emergency care ( Not serious) I had to wait almost 63 seconds, can you believe that? I didn't even have time to peruse the 3 year old magazine selection. The last time I got seriously injured they paid for surgery, Physical Therapy and paid my wages for 2 years while I fully recovered, then they sent me to school to learn a new trade. The government wasn't involved one bit and I paid ZERO dollars out of pocket and I had supplemental (AFLAC) insurance on top of it all and made enough to actually have made more than if I had worked. I kinda liked my insurance.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
im in the uk, about 5 years ago my dad had to be rushed hospital. he's never like going to docters (due to seeing his dad die) and he stayed away even when he felt ill. anyway my mum rushed him as he dad severe abdominal pain. he was seen immediately upon arrival where they quickly found a large tumour blocking his intestines, within 8 1/2 hours of his arrival the tumour + 90% of his colon had been removed (no colostomy bag) and he was back in his room. the medical care he received from nhs could not have been better.
now my dad's insurance wasnt on healthcare (even tho he has private healthcare insurance thru work he doesnt use it) my dad spent his money on terminal illness insurance so a couple off weeks after he returned from hospital he got a check for nearlly £200k paying off his mortgage, creditcards and any other debt he had. meaning the months of recovering from op and dealing with chemo was spent relativly worry free (as much as you can not worry about the big C)
its now 5 years + since he first went to hospital he's got the "all clear", he's not only still got his house but he's debt free
WhateverOne
Active Member
Yes thats all very nice (better than standard healthcare here) but from what i heard medical insurance in the US isnt exactly cheap.. So there probably will be allot of people who can not rely on it..
lets say you couldnt pay for your insurance.. then what would have happened you think? Does US pays out checks to unemployed people? Could you survive without an income for 2 Years?
I am not trying to break down US, I just like to hear first hand experience like the british example here above..
WhateverOne
Active Member
Seems like the research on this topic above isnt so reliable at all..
I would even say it is wayyyyy (some more yy...s) of,
when compared to first hand experiences.. keep trusting the major networks people!
Propaganda always has a use..
like i said before as far as i know british healthcare is the n1 in the world..