i was thinking of getting this compost bin what do us rekon

giglewigle

Well-Known Member
For example, when we first started, we used 11 things that I wouldn't use now, so nobodies ever gonna be perfect .. But its always good to learn and grow, learn and grow, thats the key. :D
thats it man i mean shit in tha last 48 hours iv learned tons i bought teaming with microbes iv even got plant to oneday do a gorrilla grow but with vegies lol cant waight for the worm bin 2 get here might start colecting beans 2 i love how theres always more 2 learn tho love it
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
It would be good soil, but the secret is to keep it slightly moist and let it age a bit before using it.
This gives the bacteria and fungi a chance to set up shop, break down compost and make it easily bioavailable.

Most importantly, nutes don't bring yields, light does. No nutrients are involved in photosynthesis.
It is simply light, water and CO2. The only nutrient problems you should experience is when your pH levels make some unavailable to the plants. The most common mistakes you will make is over water, overfeed or toast them with lights too close.

I see people do dumb shit with compost, like putting it on top of the soil. Ever left a pile of grass cuttings outdoors for a day or 2?
Noticed how quickly it bleached out and went dry?... well that was your nitrogen that just off-gassed to the atmosphere. put it under the soil if you want the nutrients.
hmmm...
can't say i agree with much of what you say man.
nutrients are part of the needed circle, Law of the minimum...
and umm. well..
nutrients are sorta a LARGE part of photosynthesis..
how is growth produced without nutrients?
And for arguments sake, if you were right, and they aren't needed, then why would an improper ph prevent uptake of those unneeded nutrients affect any growth?

a topdress of a finished compost is completely totally different than a clump of uncomposted grass clippings
grass clippings and compost are not even close to the same thing at all..
and that nitrogen gassing off is merely because of the improper nitrogen to carbon ratio... either way composting IN your containers is completely not advised at all..
burying the grass clippings under the soil doesn't facilitate the availability of the nutrients either, you want that to be properly layered with a correct carbon ratio and moistened and aerated.
not buried.

compost is best done in a compost pile. So is grass clippings.
Finished compost can and should be used for topdresses when nutrients are applied at the same time, or for any reason you feel the microbe population was damaged or lessened.
anyways, i'm not tryin to bust balls, just tryin to make sure we are a lil more comprehensive and accurate in the advice given..
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
dam dude u really know ur stuff im impressed im a little confused ur talking about the geo soil yes thats the one i bought if it turns out 2 be legit do u think it would work if i put a little bit of it in the worm bin and let it go thru the worms first rather than mixing it withmthe soil
the real advantage of the rock dusts man is it's relation with fungal microbes.
in a worm bin the rockdusts aren't really needed, you'd want that more in a compost pile as wormcastings are practically 1005 bacterial
basalt is a good mineral.
rock dusts are a broad term and they are each different, and do different things, some are better than others, some can potentially be hazardous to your health, granite is naturally a great source of potassium but also can be radioactive.
colloidal rock is different as well, with high amounts of phosphorus and calcium
gypsum is a mineral too, sorta, but it does nearly nothing the same as the other minerals, better used as a soil addition for it's consistency, or to improves poor soils or soils that have been damaged or tainted by salt or pesticides and such
but minerals are reaaaaally broad, and some are better than others, and dependent on your soil mix some can cause problems potentially
 
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giglewigle

Well-Known Member
the real advantage of the rock dusts man is it's relation with fungal microbes.
in a worm bin the rockdusts aren't really needed, you'd want that more in a compost pile as wormcastings are practically 1005 bacterial
basalt is a good mineral.
rock dusts are a broad term and they are each different, and do different things, some are better than others, some can potentially be hazardous to your health, granite is naturally a great source of potassium but also can be radioactive.
cheers for the link mate iv been reading up on rocks and whats in em n stuff going to look into soil testing but so my thinking is all the soil need is 2 have enough nutrients en even more microbes/fungi n stuff
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
cheers for the link mate iv been reading up on rocks and whats in em n stuff going to look into soil testing but so my thinking is all the soil need is 2 have enough nutrients en even more microbes/fungi n stuff
i'd say the secret to a happy organic mix is a bit more complicated, but there are some simple rules/keys that are more crucial than others. but as a whole i'd say the entire process is fairly complicated, especially in comparison to hydro-chem grows, which is sorta why hydro chems were invented to begin with..
It all depends on the person too, for me it's fairly simple to grasp, but for others it's much more difficult, but i can say the same for automechanics.. some get it easily, while other don't get it at all. (an example is i have a fairly comprehensive understanding on horticulture, while at the same time a half-retarded baby monkey with cranial encephalopathy will be able to fix your computer better than id could ever wish to)
but time and experience will show you a lot, and research will teach you the "why and how" part of the organics, sadly failure will teach you the small nuances and little known problems better than research, but you'll never forget those, and a lot of the time failure actually makes you go research the "why/how" part even more, so it's all relative.
I admit to try and grasp it all at once is fairly difficult for most, a lot of science is involved, even chemistry is to a degree.
For the most part growing with organics is much more simple, much more forgiving, and done correctly the results will hands-down be better than a chelated-chem-salt grow
BUT to make the soil and to understand the nutrients, and to understand the microbial interaction, and the fungi interaction, and such, all that is fairly scientific and somewhat daunting to try and learn and comprehend quickly.

examples of rules and keys to it would be the need for a fresh source of humus, either as a compost or as castings, preferably a mix of both
That actually does a bunch of stuff, for one it supplies an abundance of healthy and diverse microbes, humus on its own has a superior CEC rate than nearly any soil input as well, and even furthermore even the most simple compost is going to have a reaaaaally broad supply of nearly every macro and micro nutrient that you could ask for.
Another overlooked advantage is related to that awesome CEC we were talking about, and that's it's ability to not only buffer ph, but also buffer nutrients. An organic soil will be WAY more tolerant of error than a soilless media (with everything MINUS overwatering), for many reasons, those microbes mentioned do much more than just make nutrients bioavailable, it controls ph, and like i said, buffers any excessive nutrients or contaminants in the soil.
all verrrry valid reasons on why compost is so damn effective as a soil input.
but in all reality and honesty, a properly assembled soil based on a mix of compost and castings will require very, very little past that to grow the best plants you've ever grown
no joke.
if i were to pick a single solitary rule to live by for organics, it'd be that a compost and wormbin are nearly mandatory.
that's the most important, and it's not even close.

On that site i linked to you there are some very good basic information regarding soil construction, not many sites have info on that, and it follows very closely to a core principle in regards to organic soils that i live by, and that's is the importance for a properly constructed soil mix, with emphasis on aeration.
here is a more specific link to that, i i urge you to read that in particular, it also has extremely good information on aeration, soil construction and it's relation to ph and microbial interaction.

http://organicsoiltechnology.com/subsrtates-and-soils

reason i mention aeration is that THE absolute BEST organic mix on the planet will absolutely NOT grow a damn thing if it's not aerated and drained properly

everything the plant needs MUST be present simultaneously or it won't grow, you can have 99 out of 100 needed components and it still won't grow.

The Law of The Minimum at it's best right there..
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
@giglewigle @iHearAll et al

Respectfully, folks, azomite, is terrible stuff in my opinion, just so you guys know where I am at with that!
Wayyy too much Al and heavy metals and radioactive isotopes. Yes, Al is temporarily protected by Si but that bond is breakable with lower pH's as well as in the presence of humic acids and fulvics, so in other words, dangerous stuff to compost with, use in conjunction with castings, depend on for your sacred bodily medicine, etc etc.

Remember that when you look at an analysis...

for each single % of an element, there are 10,000 parts per million present, so that means that 110,000 parts per million are aluminum, thats a staggering amount, imo.

Nevermind the barium, fluorine, rubidium, cerium, and lithium. For those, the lower the better imo.

Instead, I use gypsum and basalt, and since I can get good clean GRD's, then that too.

Its the macro's and micros we want, not the other junk. :)

Happy New Year everyone!
 

JavaCo

Well-Known Member
The earths crust has 8.3 % aluminum I will be sure not to smoke anymore outdoor buds. When you use azomite that has 11% it gets cut way down since it is a small part of the mix.
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
The earths crust has 8.3 % aluminum I will be sure not to smoke anymore outdoor buds. When you use azomite that has 11% it gets cut way down since it is a small part of the mix.
Since the earth is over 70% water, your Earths Crust facts get cut way down too.. but that still doesn't mean Azomite is an inferior input in my opinion. lol. Just not something I would subject to several grows, to recycling, to composting, and to many ph fluxes, and therefor something that I would not use in my long term blend which is my most prized asset..
 

JavaCo

Well-Known Member
LOL but water does not factor into it. Water dilutes indoor soil and outdoor soil just the same. But the real question is basalt that much better with a 7% aluminum content if aluminum is bad what is the safe level ?
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
LOL but water does not factor into it. Water dilutes indoor soil and outdoor soil just the same. But the real question is basalt that much better with a 7% aluminum content if aluminum is bad what is the safe level?
LOL now you're taking the water part out of context as well as the indoor outdoor part...

Best of luck not getting Alzheimers, friend, all I know is thats about 50 000 parts per million that I'll be doing without. Happily.

Consider yourself warned, lol... I was just trying to help since my friend GW was on this thread and I don't want my homeboy learning bad habits,

anyways,
peace!
 

JavaCo

Well-Known Member
LOL now you're taking the water part out of context as well as the indoor outdoor part...

Best of luck not getting Alzheimers, friend, all I know is thats about 50 000 parts per million that I'll be doing without. Happily.

Consider yourself warned, lol... I was just trying to help since my friend GW was on this thread and I don't want my homeboy learning bad habits,

anyways,
peace!
LoL lets see I make a 12 gallon mix and use 1/2 cups of azomite. That 1/2 cups of azomite get diluted 191 & half times since there is 192 cups in 12 gallons. So that 11% gets cut down to 0.055% aluminum in my mix. If i switch to basalt it would be .035 aluminum in my mix. So according to you those 2 tenths of a percent is going to give me alztimers. If I go in my backyard and throw seed in the ground I would have a aluminum content over 80 times higher. I really wasn't trying to bust your balls just trying to see if you have any real scientific evidence to your claims, but you sound more like a basalt salesman to me. I wont post in this thread again not a troll just someone very very picky about the information I consider to 100% fact.
 
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DonTesla

Well-Known Member
lol basalt salesman.. 12 gallons is that even enough soil for one plant, dude, why are your batches so small if you dont mind?
& what else is in your rock blend cause 2 cups is only good for about 3.5 gal eh.

And for the record, lol no I don't sell basalt atm and no I never have .. haha but if looking for a good place to get it I can help people find anything they are after, several of my buddies run stores east to west.

.. sorry I don't really put much time pulling out all the "real scientific papers / evidence" when one contorts things to their own liking anyway. jk jk

But azomite got its name cause it has literally everything from A to Z in it, so AL is just one of dozens of things we could talk about, really.. but why don't you ask Greasemonkeyman his take on it these days. He stopped using it in his compost too if I'm not mistaken. I just look for cleaner mineral profiles myself especially when subjecting things to humic acids and composting etc.

Being 'very very picky' about your info that "you consider" to be fact, yet not very very picky about your methods or recipe, maybe there's a little incongruency there?

Your AL ppms are still higher than they need to be, among other things. If careless in this department one can end up adding unneeded AL each re amend and the AL stays inherent in the food web, eventually adding up and possibly binding up P so I just promote the best thing I can..

Why not defend the best position vs the current position.

anyways, have fun with your azomite blend my man, its not soo bad in such small amounts its just not something I personally recommend to my medical patients.. and composting / gardening friends and family. To heir on the smarter side of things. Why add extra AL and heavy metals over and over, cause its cheap and easy and avail?

PS Ask your local store to carry top of the line, premium inputs and they will aim to please!
 
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