"If you do not believe in climate change, you should not be allowed to hold public office"

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
View attachment 3931588

Just sourcing my information on the concept. Libertarians can be either right or left. I believe you're thinking of Tea Party Libertarians, but I might be mistaken.
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I am referencing Libertarians that are politically active. Or blab about it while I'm constrained to sit with them during a ride in the car. Maybe they are tea party libertarians but they just seem like assholes to me.

What's the difference between the "minArchist" and just plain socialists? They sound alike to me.

This definition of socialism sounds a lot like your definition of minarchist. Is the distinction between the two so large that we need yet another word to describe a subgroup?

Socialism:

a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I am referencing Libertarians that are politically active. Or blab about it while I'm constrained to sit with them during a ride in the car. Maybe they are tea party libertarians but they just seem like assholes to me.

What's the difference between the "minArchist" and just plain socialists? They sound alike to me.

This definition of socialism sounds a lot like your definition of minarchist. Is the distinction between the two so large that we need yet another word to describe a subgroup?

Socialism:

a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
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Tomato, tomahto, I guess. Minarchism essentially states that the government exists solely for very limited administrative purposes.
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I am referencing Libertarians that are politically active. Or blab about it while I'm constrained to sit with them during a ride in the car. Maybe they are tea party libertarians but they just seem like assholes to me.

What's the difference between the "minArchist" and just plain socialists? They sound alike to me.

This definition of socialism sounds a lot like your definition of minarchist. Is the distinction between the two so large that we need yet another word to describe a subgroup?

Socialism:

a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/26/trump-executive-order-could-rescind-national-monuments/100914086/

Selling the private property of the "we the people", no Russian/Chinese interests.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
national defense?

Is socialism/Minarchism looking to the farmer-soldier militia for national defense like we had in 1776?
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Common good, being the driving motivation. In theory, anyway. I dunno what to tell you there, but I imagine if enough people felt we needed to defend each other, they'd band together. You don't necessarily need a government to form an Army. Not saying there wouldn't be some shit to work out.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
I just want to point out that shark attacks and whale/dolphin beaching are increasing. I attribute this directly to Global Warming/Climate Change. I believe that a combination of gas exchange, potential pH and salt content fluctuation due to the polar ice caps melting, temperature, and other factors are either disturbing sharks' food source, and/or that it is disturbing all three animal species' ability to live and survive in the ocean in its current condition.
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Chemical and noise pollution are also causes, not saying your concern is invalid.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
I see pics of those and they show the paneled roof next to a different structure with no panels and then don't caption the photos,, think you can tell one has solar panels and the other doesn't have any. I could be wrong but the new shingles are almost seemless but those old ones may be very flat though they still look like black squares on the roof. Not sure if i'm missing something, ..
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They didn't sell well, that's all I know...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
Common good, being the driving motivation. In theory, anyway. I dunno what to tell you there, but I imagine if enough people felt we needed to defend each other, they'd band together. You don't necessarily need a government to form an Army. Not saying there wouldn't be some shit to work out.
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No fucking way this would work.

That said, the current Military Industrial Complex has gotten completely out of control and is the biggest threat to our safety and prosperity going forward.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
Actually, you typically have two sub-categories of Libertarian: Minarchist and Anarchist.
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a traditional libertarian is an anarchist. modern libertarians are either libertarian party which is a western philosph (sic) or just a modern liberal . liberal has multiple meanings and many subdivisions these days.
the libertarian party is not unified , it has old hippies and almost republicans. in essence it doesn't stand for what it stands for.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
I don't necessarily have all the answers, but the status quo has got to go.
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I agree. Accountability in government is a concept whose time has come.

South Korea is a very young democracy- yet people went into the streets in an organized way for months to demand the ouster of their president for corruption.

Now she's actually been removed from office, arrested and charged.

Imagine what America would look like if American citizens did the same here?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
a traditional libertarian is an anarchist. modern libertarians are either libertarian party which is a western philosph (sic) or just a modern liberal . liberal has multiple meanings and many subdivisions these days.
the libertarian party is not unified , it has old hippies and almost republicans. in essence it doesn't stand for what it stands for.
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Again, the confusion is deliberate I believe. The confusion is created so that the right and those who profit under its cover can point at whatever Boogeyman they want to make up and say bad things about the entire Movement.

When this country starts moving left, it will become a landslide very quickly.

Let us hope that accountability for government officials becomes a centerpiece of the New Left's platform.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Again, the confusion is deliberate I believe. The confusion is created so that the right and those who profit under its cover can point at whatever Boogeyman they want to make up and say bad things about the entire Movement.

When this country starts moving left, it will become a landslide very quickly.

Let us hope that accountability for government officials becomes a centerpiece of the New Left's platform.
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i believe it is deliberate. maybe libertarian party was hijacked long ago,, and what's with the dems an rep switching sides at some point. how does a 17-18 year old choice a side when a. the lines aren't clearly marked and b. there is no right option?
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I agree. Accountability in government is a concept whose time has come.

South Korea is a very young democracy- yet people went into the streets in an organized way for months to demand the ouster of their president for corruption.

Now she's actually been removed from office, arrested and charged.

Imagine what America would look like if American citizens did the same here?
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we are. this is what it looks like.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
i believe it is deliberate. maybe libertarian party was hijacked long ago,, and what's with the dems an rep switching sides at some point. how does a 17-18 year old choice a side when a. the lines aren't clearly marked and b. there is no right option?
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The Establishment Democratic Party knows they are vulnerable from the left- it's the position they abandoned when they shifted right to chase campaign finance dollars from mega corps and their billionaire donor class owners.

Therefore, discrediting the Left is in their best (financial) interest, disenfranchised and suffering citizens be damned.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The Establishment Democratic Party knows they are vulnerable from the left- it's the position they abandoned when they shifted right to chase campaign finance dollars from mega corps and their billionaire donor class owners.

Therefore, discrediting the Left is in their best (financial) interest, disenfranchised and suffering citizens be damned.
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do you think the right is better at some kind of propaganda or what?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
we are. this is what it looks like.
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I have to disagree with you here. The glimmer of awareness of how badly we've been screwed by mega donors, megacorps and Citizens United is just beginning to stir in the national consciousness.

We have a LONG way to go to be able to say we're building an accountable system.

I agree we're going in the right direction, but we're at step A. Step Z would be something like what we just witnessed in South Korea.
 
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