Iraq

skunkushybrid said:

I live in England Vi'. Guns are banned in this country. You don't need to stick a sign in your window.

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Well, here is what is generally misunderstood about Americans. We are of a different mindset than our European counterparts. We were born of revolution, and as such, we have the minds of revolutionaries. We have never bowed to a King ... in fact, we overthrew King George and his oppresive taxation and murderous Redcoats. The revolution at Concord was started because of the attempted imposition of gun control in the colonies by the Redcoats. Its been the same here ever since ... "Take my guns away from my cold dead hands."

Vi

Violence begets violence. The reason why ordinary criminals do not carry guns over here is because the ordinary citizens don't.

Americans have never bowed to a King? Of course you have, do you believe that your ancestors were born in that country? You are a product of Europe. I bet American history books are completely full with the whole 500 years worth. Wow, what a history. Sorry, that should read: what history?

The fact is that you do not need a gun to protect yourself, only when someone else has a gun. If guns became illegal, peoples mindsets would change, maybe then little girls wouldn't be executed while standing next to a blackboard. There are too many nutters out there, and too many guns for them to get a hold of. If I got a hold of that geezer who executed those Amish girls, I wouldn't want to use a gun on him, if he lived it would be after hours of torture.

Well, you missed my point. Since we overthrew King George, we have not bowed to a King. Sorry if I wasn't clear in that.

Firearms are a great equalizer. Take an 80-year-old woman for instance who is threatened by a young mugger weilding a baseball (cricket) bat.

Vi

Americans bow to kings and queens all the time. No, that's pedantic, I won't go there as I know where you are coming from. We too do not bow to royalty. Royalty in this country is merely a figurehead that brings us trade. If ever we need something from a country the queen will land for a special visit.

So let's get this right, an old lady and a tooled-up mugger standing toe to toe? For one thing the old lady would never have time to pull the gun out, and a mugger that mugs old ladies is hardly going to need to go out tooled up. Unless of course citizens are known to carry guns.

You mean like Me. That fact makes the criminals think. You can't tell me that most criminals don't fear death like the rest of us. I'm sure there are a few desperate Junkies whom do not, but a criminal is human, to a point! Maybe I'm forgetting the "I don't care about anyone else" thing, but I'll bet you still don't want to die, just yet. If you were going to strong arm a guy for his wallet and you thought they might have a gun, would you still strong arm him and try and take his gun. A legitimate reason for shooting someone under the carry law is trying to take your gun, probably someone would die, hopefully the criminal.

It's been estimated that the private citizens here in the U.S. thwart over two million crimes per year using personally owned handguns.

I honestly believe that we have a much more violent society here than you Brits do.

Here's some info: GUNS AND VIOLENCE

Armed Citizens and Crime Control


Vi

I'm afraid of death just like everyone else. In fact if I was looking death in the face I'd probably let go of my bodily functions such would be my fear.

All 'that fact' does medican' is tell the criminal to shoot first and rob later.

Yes Vi' thankyou, you do have a much more violent society. I wonder why?

In contention to shoot first, With a concealed weapon, the criminal doesn't know untill it's too late and he has a bullet in his arse, I suppose if a criminal stuck a gun in my face, Id give him my wallet and when he turned to leave Id shoot him in the back, promptly turn him over, get his fingerprints on my gun barrel and shoot him in the chest a couple times and once in the head to make sure, then call the cops, and my lawyer, this would also depend on the proximity of witnesses, and how much I had in my wallet at the time. Usually with only a couple a hundred bucks, it wouldn't be worth the hassle to shoot him. I'd probanly try and make a citizens arrest. As long as he didn't try anything he would live to rob another day. If he patted me down and had put his weapon away or out of danger I'd like to think I could put up a pretty good struggle and hopefully get to my piece before him, then dispatching him to his maker. Either way, you can usually tell if someone means you harm from a little distance and like if you see a scary looking person looking around furitively and eyeing you, cross the street, if he crosses the street to come nearer to you, pull your weapon and tell him to move away. This is perfectly legal if you feel yourself in danger. What results from that is then up to the perpetrater. As I've said "never pull your weapon unless you are prepared to use it"

Guns are dangerous and they fall into the wrong hands all too often. I can see that I'm not going to change your mind as my mind is equally steadfast in my opinion. Maybe if I'd been born an American I'd think differently, but as it is I really don't agree with guns.

Here in texas you can get a conceiled hand gun liscence. My buddy has one and I am going to get one soon. My bro has atleast 3 guns on him at all times. He has an ak47 pistol (less than 18" barrel) he carries in his truck everywhere he goes. The cops have stopped him twice now. They get a kick out of it and always play with all his guns. Its funny.

Did anyone see Frontline "The lost year in Iraq", pretty revealing of the failed Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Bremmer Policys and the birth of the insurgency. Now we know why the insurgency really started. Too much to discuss in this thread. I suggest if anyone is interested, go to PBS- Frontline and look up "Lost year in Iraq" or see a repeat of this informative program!

I see that more troops and civilians than ever are dying in Iraq, When will the boneheads wake up and pull the troops out. The ones "that will follow us over here", just let me know about them, have the Govt. give me permission, and myself and a few of my friends will take care of them. They couldn't follow us even if they wanted to if we strengtrhend our borders and took care of business like we are supposed to, thats a load of bunk. What are we becoming, a bunch of old ladies afraid of our own shadows. If the intelligence apparatus was working effectively, they'd know when one of them showed up and they could tell me and I'd go and shoot the bastard, me and a lot of my friends would not have a problem offing a known terrorist on US soil!

Is it just possible that the insurgents are esclalating the violence at this particular time in an effort to influence our elections on November 7th? I predicted this in a previous post a few weeks ago. Now for another prediction ... the violence will let up after Nov. 7th.

Vi

No Vi', not the insurgents. Your own Government, they have to make you believe that there is a war that needs fighting. Both Political sides need the money, so they'll back each other on certain things.

The insurgents couldn't care less about your elections. They just want what little they have left of their country back. Iraq was a needless atrocity and only France had the backbone to not go into the 'war'.

There were no terrorists in Iraq before the slaughter. I'm all for killing terrorists, but the Iraqi people did not deserve it. Iran, laughs at the West, so too N. Korea. We do nothing because we have nothing material to gain.

We simply made something up about Saddam, he did everything he could to prevent the war. How does anyone know that the country would have been bankrupt in however many years? We know because that is what they want us to believe, it sort of softens what we did to the country.

Well as much as I hate to see innocent people die if this ramping up of insurgency affects the election, and the Republicans Lose, it may have been worth it. Then the Democrats need to grow some balls and go after Bush-cheny and their crowd. I say they've done plenty to be Impeached over at least sanctioned and lame ducked all the way, throw out all the corrupt congressmen from both parties, do away with lobbiests (throw out K street) and set this country on a path that will take all Viredds money away and give it to me!

Med sez ...

"and set this country on a path that will take all Viredds money away and give it to me!"


And of course those who would be enforcing that "path," would be the Jack-Booted Thugs of the federal government, right? Let's see, we could accomplish your wealth transfer scheme by raising taxes on the "rich" to an excessive degree, say 90% of their income, then relax the income requirements in order to recieve government largess to exactly YOUR income level. That way, you get all the government cheese you want and get back at the "greedy bastards" at the same time. No, wait ... I think I'm getting confused as to who the real greedy bastards are here. *lol*

Vi

Geeze I think you've sumed it up pretty well, I don't want anyone elses money, just yours. I'd like to see you in line at the hospital when your dying and begging for help and have them tell you well we'd like to help you but we see no profit in it , so go ahead and die!

Ahhh ... your compassionate side is showing again Med.

Again, federal law prohibits ANY hospital from turning away anyone who is in need of emergency care. For those who have no money for ordinary care, we have county hospitals that are on an "ability to pay" basis.

You, Med ... are like the greedy farmer. He didn't want ALL the land, just the land that was next to his.

Vi

Yes but federal law does not protect the person who can't pay from having another black mark on your credit history because of it. you forgot that your heros (the republicans) have taken away the protections of chapter 7 bankruptcy.