Kelp Extract & Fulvic Acid Solution For Clones

Tangerine_ said:

Interesting info....once you weed through the repetitive sling-blade comments

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Now that's funny!

ruwtz said:

Good work, well done.

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Thank you Ruwtz, glad you liked it. I hope others will do a similar side-by-side comparison to see if this can be verified by more peeps here on RUI. If anyone does, I hope they'll post the results in this thread so that we can compare results.

The part I find most interesting is that applying this solution to a mother plant 8-10 days before cloning does seem to give the cuttings a better reserve of energy.

However, I know when running these kinds of experiments, one should try as much as possible to compare apples to apples, and in this case there was a difference in the growth stage, since the untreated was further into flower than the treated (closer to veg stage). I can't say that this affected the outcome, but it is a variable that I didn't account for when I set up the test.

fearnoevil said:

Nothing, no opinions on this? I've got some kelp extract and fulvic acid in the mail, and I've got a couple of mom's I'll give this a try on in a few weeks when I'm ready for the next batch. If this does what the Dr.Smith claims I'll post back with my results.

Has anyone else watched any of Harley Smith's videos? Kinda long but at least the first couple I've watched have been informative.

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Been following Harley Smiths advice and suggestions for years. A tsp of Nitrozime...a tsp.of Fossil Fuel Humic acid supplement (or Bio Ag FulPower) and a few drops (about 7 to 12) of Yucca wetting agent (i like Humboldt Nutes Sticky) to a quart of tap water foliar sprayed on all vegging plants6and early flowering every 6 to 7 days like clockwork. Its by far the best most effective and noticeable concoction I have ever tried and ive tried every damn bottle on the hydroponic store shelves. It makes plants much shorter...more compact and WAY more bushy with potential flowering node sites all over the canopy. Looks lkle you topped em amd vegged them much more amd longer than you actually did. This all translates into a very noticeable higher yield later in flowering. Been yelling/telling growers about kelp/humic foliar sprays weekly for years amd the dramatic difference it makes. Mr. Smith gave me the advice about it a long time ago when he worked for HDI.

since1991 said:

Been following Harley Smiths advice and suggestions for years. A tsp of Nitrozime...a tsp.of Fossil Fuel Humic acid supplement (or Bio Ag FulPower) and a few drops (about 7 to 12) of Yucca wetting agent (i like Humboldt Nutes Sticky) to a quart of tap water foliar sprayed on all vegging plants6and early flowering every 6 to 7 days like clockwork. Its by far the best most effective and noticeable concoction I have ever tried and ive tried every damn bottle on the hydroponic store shelves. It makes plants much shorter...more compact and WAY more bushy with potential flowering node sites all over the canopy. Looks lkle you topped em amd vegged them much more amd longer than you actually did. This all translates into a very noticeable higher yield later in flowering. Been yelling/telling growers about kelp/humic foliar sprays weekly for years amd the dramatic difference it makes. Mr. Smith gave me the advice about it a long time ago when he worked for HDI.

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Thank you for that info, you know in my searches I've turned up dozens of references to the same formula, but I'll be damned if not a single one ever mentioned what amounts they're using, just the 5:2 ratio, it was driving me crazy that none of them would think to tell you what measuring unit they used to add to how much water, lol.

And I have to agree with you, I've seen lots of claims for dozens of products, and this stuff has shown the most dramatic amount of change of any of them. I'll take some pics tonight to show what this batch of clones looks like, they are growing fast and the internodal spacing is ridiculous. In fact I may dial it back a bit cuz on many of them there doesn't look to be more than a quarter inch spacing which could be too much of a good thing, lol.

Fyi, I bought bulk powdered kelp extract for quite a bit cheaper than any brand name liquid I could find, around $25 a pound, and the same for the humic acid. So far I am tickled pink at how well it's working. I am curious to know if there's a limit to how much or often I can feed my girls, or if there's any downside or negative affects from using too much. Also can this be fed right up until flush, or should I cut back as I get close to harvest? Thanks again Since, glad to have found someone who's seeing the same amazing results as I am ;?)

fearnoevil said:

Thank you for that info, you know in my searches I've turned up dozens of references to the same formula, but I'll be damned if not a single one ever mentioned what amounts they're using, just the 5:2 ratio, it was driving me crazy that none of them would think to tell you what measuring unit they used to add to how much water, lol.

And I have to agree with you, I've seen lots of claims for dozens of products, and this stuff has shown the most dramatic amount of change of any of them. I'll take some pics tonight to show what this batch of clones looks like, they are growing fast and the internodal spacing is ridiculous. In fact I may dial it back a bit cuz on many of them there doesn't look to be more than a quarter inch spacing which could be too much of a good thing, lol.

Fyi, I bought bulk powdered kelp extract for quite a bit cheaper than any brand name liquid I could find, around $25 a pound, and the same for the humic acid. So far I am tickled pink at how well it's working. I am curious to know if there's a limit to how much or often I can feed my girls, or if there's any downside or negative affects from using too much. Also can this be fed right up until flush, or should I cut back as I get close to harvest? Thanks again Since, glad to have found someone who's seeing the same amazing results as I am ;?)

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On some strains ive grown before...too much cytokinin (the hormone thats in the kelp extract and most kelps/seaweed in general) can sometimes do weird shit to young vegging plants and nice preflowering ladies. You will notice VERY deep green leaves at first. This is the plant telling you to back off the hormones (the actual kelp foliar spraying). Shes taking up nitrogen at a super and almost too efficient rate from it. Then the leaves will get all twisty and sometimes single bladed. Almost like a clone that you took from an already flowering plant( like 2 weeks in). How it grows all funky in veg after it roots. Kelp foliars too often or too high a concentration will make plants look similar. It can be overdone. Just back it off a bit or cut it out all together. Another sign your overdoing it with foliar hormone spraying is major preflower "hairs" setting off at an abnormal rate. You will know something is up because its very noticeable and you will know exactly its from too much kelp spraying. Almost like she cant wait to get put in 12 - 12. This is all VERY grower/environment and strain dependent though.

since1991 said:

On some strains ive grown before...too much cytokinin (the hormone thats in the kelp extract and most kelps/seaweed in general) can sometimes do weird shit to young vegging plants and nice preflowering ladies. You will notice VERY deep green leaves at first. This is the plant telling you to back off the hormones (the actual kelp foliar spraying). Shes taking up nitrogen at a super and almost too efficient rate from it. Then the leaves will get all twisty and sometimes single bladed. Almost like a clone that you took from an already flowering plant( like 2 weeks in). How it grows all funky in veg after it roots. Kelp foliars too often or too high a concentration will make plants look similar. It can be overdone. Just back it off a bit or cut it out all together. Another sign your overdoing it with foliar hormone spraying is major preflower "hairs" setting off at an abnormal rate. You will know something is up because its very noticeable and you will know exactly its from too much kelp spraying. Almost like she cant wait to get put in 12 - 12. This is all VERY grower/environment and strain dependent though.

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This is good info.

I cut kelp completely after the stretch - I find it keeps pushing more new branches that obviously amount to nothing at that point.

Play with the temperature differential (the same or slightly warmer night temps than the peak day temps the first 3 weeks of the 12 -12 photoperiod) whilst still foliar ssprayig a kelp/fulvic spray every 5 to 7 days and see what happens. In my rooms its pretty amazing.

since1991 said:

On some strains ive grown before...too much cytokinin (the hormone thats in the kelp extract and most kelps/seaweed in general) can sometimes do weird shit to young vegging plants and nice preflowering ladies. You will notice VERY deep green leaves at first. This is the plant telling you to back off the hormones (the actual kelp foliar spraying). Shes taking up nitrogen at a super and almost too efficient rate from it. Then the leaves will get all twisty and sometimes single bladed. Almost like a clone that you took from an already flowering plant( like 2 weeks in). How it grows all funky in veg after it roots. Kelp foliars too often or too high a concentration will make plants look similar. It can be overdone. Just back it off a bit or cut it out all together. Another sign your overdoing it with foliar hormone spraying is major preflower "hairs" setting off at an abnormal rate. You will know something is up because its very noticeable and you will know exactly its from too much kelp spraying. Almost like she cant wait to get put in 12 - 12. This is all VERY grower/environment and strain dependent though.

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I overdid it and a few of my afgooeys are starting to look like revegged plants.

Chunky Stool said:

I overdid it and a few of my afgooeys are starting to look like revegged plants.

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Hey those look kinda familiar, lol. Yeah I think I probably overdid it a bit too, although some of the gnarly looks do come from the clones being taken from a mom already in flower. So here's the pics of my baby girls, taken a couple of days ago.

since1991 said:

Play with the temperature differential (the same or slightly warmer night temps than the peak day temps the first 3 weeks of the 12 -12 photoperiod) whilst still foliar ssprayig a kelp/fulvic spray every 5 to 7 days and see what happens. In my rooms its pretty amazing.

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I'll have to try that on this next batch. I usually shoot for cooler temps at night trying to emulate what they'd normally experience naturally, but never thought that warmer night temps would have a beneficial affect. But then it's easy to forget that while we are dealing with plants provided to us by mother nature, everything else we do is pushing the boundries to their absolute limits in an effort to turn them into freakishly potent mutants, lol.

fearnoevil said:

I'll have to try that on this next batch. I usually shoot for cooler temps at night trying to emulate what they'd normally experience naturally, but never thought that warmer night temps would have a beneficial affect. But then it's easy to forget that while we are dealing with plants provided to us by mother nature, everything else we do is pushing the boundries to their absolute limits in an effort to turn them into freakishly potent mutants, lol.

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That's a great point! I hear a lot of "nature knows best" type stuff, but it seems like the people pulling the highest yields would dispute this. Then again, outdoor growers can pull some serious weight too.
Hmm...

Chunky Stool said:

That's a great point! I hear a lot of "nature knows best" type stuff, but it seems like the people pulling the highest yields would dispute this. Then again, outdoor growers can pull some serious weight too.
Hmm...

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Oh I won't argue that, heck most of my years growing had been outdoors. But we're still doing everything we can to maximize the nutrients as well as breeding progams which select for genetics that maximize THC/CBD production such that the modern cannabis plant probably doesn't much resemble the strains that grew naturally a hundred years ago.

Hell, back in the 70's the best weed available, Maui Wowie and even Matanuska Thunderfuck, couldn't hold a candle to some of the top shelf stuff available at dispensaries today. And to tell the truth, I kinda miss that - I remember being able to smoke joint after joint of some Panama Red or Kona Gold, and still function, go to work even and stay high with no problem. But these days, this high-octane shit is so much more potent that there's no way I would even think about getting high at work, unless I wanted to get canned, lol. I dunno, I've probably just turned into a light-weight in my old age, heh heh ;?D

fearnoevil said:

Oh I won't argue that, heck most of my years growing had been outdoors. But we're still doing everything we can to maximize the nutrients as well as breeding progams which select for genetics that maximize THC/CBD production such that the modern cannabis plant probably doesn't much resemble the strains that grew naturally a hundred years ago.

Hell, back in the 70's the best weed available, Maui Wowie and even Matanuska Thunderfuck, couldn't hold a candle to some of the top shelf stuff available at dispensaries today. And to tell the truth, I kinda miss that - I remember being able to smoke joint after joint of some Panama Red or Kona Gold, and still function, go to work even and stay high with no problem. But these days, this high-octane shit is so much more potent that there's no way I would even think about getting high at work, unless I wanted to get canned, lol. I dunno, I've probably just turned into a light-weight in my old age, heh heh ;?D

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I've actually become more hardcore with cannabis now that I'm in my 50s. My "ultra strength" edibles will drop a normal human in his tracks. ( I've got some good stories...)
But I've backed off the alcohol in my old age. Definitely can't drink like I used to. Hard liquor always makes me feel like shit, which sucks because I love a good bourbon on the rocks. Mmm...
Had to quit smoking cigs too.
You can get away with that shit when you're young, but it kills people on the AARP mailing list...

My Sensei who will not be working with me much longer likes Kelp extract, fulvic acid and whey for flower. Anyone else use that?

fearnoevil said:

Did you follow the same ratio (5 parts fulvic to 2 parts seaweed extract) and amounts as Smith? His work seems to prove otherwise, and btw I'm only using fulvic since as a foliar spray, they are more readily absorbed through leaves as opposed to humic which I believe needs to be applied to the medium. Here's a quote from bioag.com which echos what Smith talked about:

"Because of its small molecular size, fulvic acid is able to penetrate the leaf and even the mitochondria of a cell which makes it great for foliar sprays and root drenches. By comparison humic acid is a fantastic soil conditioner and better for dry broad cast and soil/soil-less application."

And this from maximumyield.com:

"Humic and fulvic acids work even better when combined with seaweed extracts. Seaweed extracts are loaded with natural plant-growth hormones such as auxins and cytokinins. Humic and fulvic acids hold onto the auxins in an exchangeable form to amplify their effects on plants. In fact, Virginia Tech’s 10-year study on organic biostimulants found that five parts of humic acid combined with two parts of seaweed extracts worked 50% better than either product alone. If you want more lateral root growth and more root mass, you can easily make your own humic acid and kelp root stimulant.

Fulvic acid foliar sprays make a great tonic for sick clones, especially when combined with kelp. If your cuttings are slow to root, or if the leaves start to turn yellow and fall off, try using a fine mist of fulvic acid and seaweed at the recommended 5:2 ratio. Rooting hormones are actually made by plants in the leaves and transported to the roots to initiate new growth, so a foliar spray with fulvic acid and kelp is fast-acting when absorbed by the leaves. Research shows that plants start to respond to fulvic acids in as little as four hours, and vigorous root growth and stress recovery is often evident in as little as two days. Before you give up on your precious seedlings or clones, try a little fulvic acid tonic first."

Also, and possibly more important, imo, is what Smith says about using this to pre-treat your Moms prior to taking clones. His data shows marked improvement of clone viability when they've been "energized" by this pre-treatment. This is the data that I'm looking for validation on.

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Anyone make a reasonably priced seaweed and fulvic liquid combo?

Yeah but its not hard to mix the two. Buy them seperate so you can get more versatility out of them. You can cut out one or the other depending on what your plants are telling you. And a good humic/fulvic like Fossil Fuel or BioAg FulPower goes excellent in the nutrient tanks along with your base nute root zone feeds. It chelates Iron and other stubborn elements really well. I dont mix and set a tank without Fossil Fuel. 7 to 10 ml. per gallon of water/nutes. Only adds about 20 to 30 ppm (500 scale) to the base stock feeds. Excellent pH stabilizer also.

Thanks for the post and info fearno. I don’t know if anyone is still on here being a 3 year old post but I’m interested in amounts if you have them for fulvic and kelp per gallon. Are you still using this concoction? I just started using them both recently and got online to find the right amounts and stumbled on this. Thanks again for the post.

Forbinwasblue said:

Thanks for the post and info fearno. I don’t know if anyone is still on here being a 3 year old post but I’m interested in amounts if you have them for fulvic and kelp per gallon. Are you still using this concoction? I just started using them both recently and got online to find the right amounts and stumbled on this. Thanks again for the post.

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I'm curious too

I read 5% and that's what I'm using.. Liquid kelp and then I add fulvic acid to 5% of the volume by weight, so 50g in 1L. Trying to replace floralicious with it and it is a similar concentration.

Really glad this thread got bumped, I've noticed some of the weird growth patterns on seedlings since doubling the amount of kelp I'm using. Odd shaped leaves, some even numbered leaflets, etc. Now I know why (I thought it was due to light stress, but it has happened over many plants). I'm going to try to cut the seaweed in flower to see if it helps with too much lower growth.

Edit to say that I'm diluting the fulvic acid seaweed solution to 2mL per gallon like any feed.

Very interesting about the mutations. I don't understand the 5percent part. If I was going to apply to mother plants at 5fulvic:2kelp , how many ml of each would I do per gallon?
Thank you in advance