Led Users Unite!

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by project fuoro, Sep 11, 2009.

  1.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    I like how you see it as an art form, because I can enjoy it building a light as much as I enjoy growing a plant under it. So half of my hobby is only about the hardware, making these tweaks much more interesting. Customization your own space is more important to your own, than to a company, who needs to reach alot of customers. That‘s why I like to see builds like the one of Rokos! That plants will grow decent under a few different light scources isn‘t new, but to take it to the limit became afforable with DIY, indeed it‘s the only why to achieve this uniformity! So I highly enjoy this kind of construction, and craftman skills :hump:
     
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  2.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    I see it like that:

    CRI80 will let you achieve 80% of genetic potential. (Pretty good)
    CRI90 will let you achieve 90% of genetic potential. (Really good)
    CRi97 will let you achieve 97% of genetic potential. (Awesome!)

    I don‘t want to say CRI90 means exactly 90% genetic potential, the numbers may be different. But I think that more natrual light, will produce better quality.

    There are already alot of threads, where CRI90 seems to beat CRI80. Especially the popular strips avaible atm, are only CRI80. So here is a point for improvement.

    If you buy some soundsystem the quality may range from 20%-99%, but with actual popular LED lights the range is more like 80-99% (60-99% maybe including chinese stuff).

    So it‘s easier to get a pretty good LED light, that is working, but there is still room for improvement.
     
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  3.  
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    i have not seen the 80 vs 90+cri tests really show that much like 17% but if you have used em all you may know more than i do not
     
    hillbill likes this.
  4.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    I have had a 3500k 90cri for a year and a half and while I don't weigh often or take a lot of notes, if I need more COBs they will be 90cri! I guess it's like [email protected] since I had a HID in the tent.
     
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  5.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    Read everything please, not only what you want ;) never said, that these numbers are anything else than examples to express, that there is room for improvement! Even if there is only 10% difference ( just check out Bad Dawg‘s threads, he runs a few side by side grows), it‘s still there... and not negotiable. And I have not grown with every light, but I know how a sunlight bud is like... no indoor crop is as mellow as an outdoor crop, imo
     
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  6.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

  7.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    Guys I also really love the art form idea! I feel like an artist indeed, my dad was an artist, and I went to design school where I actually graduated on a designing a durable bicycle which went into production. The Double Dutch transporter: https://www.google.nl/search?q=double+dutch+fiets&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0o6Ts3ofYAhXQJ1AKHdMICkAQ_AUICigB&biw=1998&bih=1065 .....

    It's like I hear myself talking, yes designing and building is in a way better than growing, growing is just the test where it al comes together but also the waiting game. If you have design flaws you are gonna see them extrapolated over the course of your grow which is nice and frustrating, but therefore motivating and it really makes you think progressively! There is also cost, especially electricity costs which really challenge you!

    I also think there is a lot of room for improvement as far as implementation of that excellent led form factor, you really have almost limitless design possibilities.

    I always have had this idea in my head that the best lamp would be the wall itself! Or the sphere balooning around the plant, like a condom for your plant lol, or a net is even better, no closed surfaces or boxes! On top of that the best way to implement the best spectrum would be to make a sphere shape and the inner surface of that sphere would be covered in highly efficient 100cri leds, or probably even multicolour just like a computer screen!
    And then you go outside on your ideal day on the ideal place on earth with the ideal weather, (which doesnt exist anymore) and make a 100% perfect 3d map of all the parameters, 360 photos etc, or even make a video.

    Next thing is to project that video onto the sphere shaped display. As to give your plant exactly the copy of what it gets outside, even with the sun rotating around it.
    One can dream ....... Once you copied reverse engineered that sunny day to perfection, you can start tweaking it lol, giving the plant 4 suns, or 10 whatever you like.
    It's not only about cri, outside its also not a constant spectrum throughout! So you'd have to copy a whole season and once you got that down and tested you can possibly start beating nature because of tweaks you can make now because you hacked the 'code'......

    Ofcourse an artificial light perfect like that doesnt exist, and never will and it wouldnt be the most efficient to have a lamp made out of leds that are never all on together.

    I am talking about the absolute most leds one could cramp in a surface, and the colours mixed accordingly. I don't believe in quantum boards with a big band of red or a big band of blue on them. If you have the resolution, use it! I do understand a better mixed board is also more expensive to produce, but they can make much more complicated things, it's almost like I am watching duplo, while we already can buy lego, and even surpassed nano in other fields.

    I already had some cobs so I just multiplied them and drive them softer that way you also get a higher resolution.
    But if you run cobs like that, close to the canopy, it is absolutely the case you should pick the richest colour! Because they dont really mix that well by design... Well not the absolute richest colour because in real life it's still a compromize CRI/output

    But leds have even more advantages, if you really think outside the box you also could design more like an octopus light with strips draped down all in between your branches and buds
    Which some on here already started experimenting with which is really NICE
    IF ONLY the cri was there. On the other hand :
    To save electricity you have to rule out some lesser efficient colours like green, but not too much..
    I am still trying to get my head around the richness in taste of an outdoor bud though....
    .....

    I already have a more than sufficient light for my needs for grows to come now, but maybe in a couple of years, or maybe for a friend I would build a real 3D light with just really high cri whites. If available 2 channel, warm cold.

    But you could also see me build a white fabric dome with just ONE really badass SPOT on it from above or even below! or while we are at it, make that a led video beamer.....

    Nice meeting you all, and thanks very much for the excellent feedback and compliments. To me it's not about how much work it takes to build, it's about the journey and evolution yessss

    For long I stayed in the dark with my designs and ideas. I also waited a looong time before I could see white led FINALLY getting more efficient AND decent as far as colour goes!

    I do have a tread or 2 on a Dutch forum, but this market is so niche I only get a few short reactions like, nice light dude, now put a box around it and sell it for big money.....
    Well that's actualy a good joke, because chinese manufacturers do exactly that! Make it a black box with bad noisy design and charge too much...

    But yeah I am thinking of moving myself over here in a next topic. :)

    To close this rant; we are not the only ones talking DIY:
    15068280_10209747179249053_4213003225473744518_o.jpg

    ciao
    Rokus
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  8.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    I think a lot of guys who are currently running 80 cri strips would be helped with some additional strips with just the extras on them:
    Red, blue, UV, far red.

    And if you have 90cri strips already cold and warm white @ separate channels you probably would be best off with strips with only:
    UV and far red. Maybe some extra reds but thats it.

    Thats probably what I would go for if I was to build a new light.

    I am also thinking about running some side lighting in my own grow just because I can, some ultra slim hanging pillars 60cm length would be nice 2700K 90 please
    ;)

    I actually went on another search the other day, I am European from the Netherlands so getting stuff shipped from the US is a very bad idea because of customs and tax... And there are not a lot of EU sellers around
    Osram = German, and I finally stumbled upon a German seller, which looks to stock what I was looking for!

    Nice short ones 660nm top bin
    https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Pow...n-SSL-80-hyper-red-array-LT-2017_206_209.html
    Schermafbeelding 2017-12-10 om 16.23.56.png

    2 tone with driver:
    https://www.led-tech.de/en/LED-Modu...Red+Deep-Blue-LT-2971_242_243.html?cross=2971
    Schermafbeelding 2017-12-10 om 16.27.17.png


    Or just the strips:
    https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Pow...Red-Plug-und-Grow-Stripe-LT-2967_206_209.html
    Schermafbeelding 2017-12-10 om 16.25.49.png
    Have you spotted already what I think is brilliant about these strips?

    The 3 size solder pads !!!
    So we can fit Cree, Osram, luminus devices UVA, you name it on there!
    When I bought my led bars (late 2016) which housed the 3 channel pcb strips I now use, (with osram ssl 80 latest bin), I asked to put UVA on one channel, but they told me Osram does not have UVA in 3x3mm size diode. I thought damn!! So now I have all separate UVA leds in my last build, because they are indeed too big. https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Luminus-Devices/SST-10-UV-A130-F385-00/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt82OzCyDsLFNqUtWiF89W1c20OC3Wq66s=

    With these strips I believe thats a thing of the past, because you can just bake some extra UV leds on there no problem they are pre fabricated to take them so :)
    And because they're super slim/narrow one could easily fit 2 or 3 strips besides eachother in between your existing white strips, so you don't even have to bother anymore with a multi channel pcb you just stack together different strips to get the different channels :)

    Interesting stash they have!
    https://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Osram/Osram-Modules-c_206_209.html
    And they are not that expensive if you consider what it costs you if you have to buy 100 separate monos from Osram, I bet you pay more without the strips....

    Happy building!

    Rokus
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
    Serva likes this.
  9.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    haha thanks

    it IS fun with all the dimmers, I just tested some of the spectra you can get with this light :D
    _DSC8763.jpg
    _DSC8771.jpg
    _DSC8777.jpg _DSC8780.jpg _DSC8782.jpg _DSC8779.jpg _DSC8781.jpg _DSC8778.jpg _DSC8797.jpg
     
  10.  
    Go go n chill

    Go go n chill Well-Known Member

  11.  
    Delta-9Pyromaniac

    Delta-9Pyromaniac Well-Known Member

    LMAO!!!!!! I'll bring the dollars
     
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  12.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    some more tests

    Don't know how the photos got this way
     

    Attached Files:

  13.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    UV led test
     

    Attached Files:

  14.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the infos, I am also from europe, so this helps. My project for next year, learn how to solder... it seems, there is no other affordable way
     
    Rokus likes this.
  15.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    The longer you wait the cheaper it gets, per photon that's a fact, so take your time.

    Maybe they wil have really good and cheap 90+ cri that dont need any extras 3 years from now that overtakes all the quantum boards that are now rocking, for half the price...

    You could also ditch your cobs later and stick something like this on that same heatsink your cob sat on before, the LED evolution aint over yet:
    https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724856.2017005.6.696c756cp8sscb

    And here's even a guy from the Ukraine, which I follow, I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about but this guy is creative. He does PPFD and spectral measurements with each and every lamp he builds, but like I said I don't understand much but it's fun to watch what combination he comes up with each time! Here he has efficient monos on a small substrate that replaces a cob, is he crazy or smart?
    I don't think this idea is a terribly bright idea, because why not use the whole heatsink while you're at it? But hey somebody did it just because he could and I love that. If anyone can read his spec sheet later on in the video, and compare it with your typical chinese blurple cob maybe there is some gain there..
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  16.  
    Rokus

    Rokus Active Member

    Part I in the long series called: Why doesn't it exist? ;)
    _DSC8824.jpg

    Who wants to hire me as a designer? I am out of money after that last build, but loaded with ideas....
    I declare this one: Donut Board
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  17.  
    Unit Farm System Supply

    Unit Farm System Supply Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

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  18.  
    Gabora

    Gabora Member

    Been using Led's since 2015 and i just can't turn back. I really think my results have been turning out great for my specific setup. Everyones got their preferences, but i'd definitely give it a shot if your curious and want to cut down on the electric bill a bit.

    :bigjoint:
     
  19.  
    Unit Farm System Supply

    Unit Farm System Supply Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    share some harvest pics ?
     
  20.  
    Gabora

    Gabora Member

    Harvesting in about 5 days. Luther Dogman grow. 300W leds. Probably get about 4-5 zips off one girl. Lolli’d a little late in the game but did use scrog method. Turned out really nice. Stinky as hell too. Dense as Phuk.
     

    Attached Files:

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