LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

I just stumbled on this website and ended up buying eight of their lamps. - http://www.wave-point.com

Check out the Ultra Growth Wave (Ultra Cola) light. It looks like it has good peaks in both the blue and red spectrum.

I'm going to be testing out 8 of them to see how they work.

That's a HOT bulb! However, too much red will significantly increase stretch. Depending on tent height, you might only use 1-2 of them. I use one Coral Wave (pic # 1) during flower, once buds set.

jzforum said:

I just stumbled on this website and ended up buying eight of their lamps. - http://www.wave-point.com

Check out the Ultra Growth Wave (Ultra Cola) light. It looks like it has good peaks in both the blue and red spectrum.

I'm going to be testing out 8 of them to see how they work.

Click to expand...

you are on to a great thread here loaded with information,
i stumbled upon this thread 420kushclean.com/light-spectrum/ which has a lot more information
the information in the article has listed 2 awesome bulbs which are very new to the growing market. they have a even some new bulbs listed in the article that are LOW IRON high UVB bulbs on the post. also the company had an artle about just UVB also at http://420kushclean.com/uvb-thc-production/ and by the looks of the grow pics on instagram, all i got to say is i wish my garden can one day look like Kush Clean's http://instagram.com/kushclean
its so good to see all us trying to educate ourselves past the basics

The light spectrum link is one of the most intelligent (and easy reads) that I have come across. Kudos/LIKE

AAA420Report said:

you are on to a great thread here loaded with information,
i stumbled upon this thread 420kushclean.com/light-spectrum/ which has a lot more information
the information in the article has listed 2 awesome bulbs which are very new to the growing market. they have a even some new bulbs listed in the article that are LOW IRON high UVB bulbs on the post. also the company had an artle about just UVB also at http://420kushclean.com/uvb-thc-production/ and by the looks of the grow pics on instagram, all i got to say is i wish my garden can one day look like Kush Clean's http://instagram.com/kushclean
its so good to see all us trying to educate ourselves past the basics

Click to expand...

The light spectrum link is one of the most intelligent (and easy reads) that I have come across. However, the 2 bulbs are not hot5, but Kudos/LIKE

AAA420Report said:

you are on to a great thread here loaded with information,
i stumbled upon this thread 420kushclean.com/light-spectrum/ which has a lot more information
the information in the article has listed 2 awesome bulbs which are very new to the growing market. they have a even some new bulbs listed in the article that are LOW IRON high UVB bulbs on the post. also the company had an artle about just UVB also at http://420kushclean.com/uvb-thc-production/ and by the looks of the grow pics on instagram, all i got to say is i wish my garden can one day look like Kush Clean's http://instagram.com/kushclean
its so good to see all us trying to educate ourselves past the basics

Click to expand...

the wavepoint ultra growth is available from amazon.com. I am going to be trying a blend of three of these bulbs with three standard 6500k bulbs on two strains.they look very promising

spectral output from wavepoint ultra growth

the chart for the flora suns looks very similar to the chart for the red wave bulbs perhaps a little less blue and 630nm but similar the red wave does seem to have plenty of blue perhaps replacing the 6500k with flora suns would work. I switched from 2 6500k to two red wave bulbs on two 3 week old plants and they seem to love it.I am still trying to improve the spectrum and enjoy experimenting. I have a 50 watt warm white led that I am growing another plant under to see what that does but am considering adding a small cfl to get more blue during veg. the technology is evolving so rapidly that in time LEDS maybe the way to go a 50 watt module cost $5.80 on e bay and the driver was about $12. I am using a heat sink from a 12 volt cooler someone thru out and a muffin fan from an old computer.with the fan off the temperature only rises 45 degrees centigrade and with the fan the rise is only 7 degrees. View attachment 3033329

thank you PETFLORA. very interesting link. my formal training was in electrical engineering and I have training as a machinist and gunsmith so DIY would be an easy project for me.I was concerned about the lack of broad spectrum blue light with leds and originally planed on using them to supplement fluorescents that lack broad spectrum red light.(with conventional 6500k/ 3000k grow lights.) then I discovered this thread and switched to aquarium lights and am very happy with the result.I saw a difference the first week.I like his ideal about adding sockets for cfl lights to supplement the spectrum. I have been thinking about trying a SMALL uvb light during the last weeks of flowering but with the low price of high power white LEDs I can afford to experiment with those as well. the results he got were impressive. in my state care givers are allowed to grow cannabis for MMJ cardholders if they are registered as primary caregivers so this is a non-profit project. I do appreciate all the valuable information I get from you and others on these forums and have learned a great deal. after reading that link I think I will add a 10 watt cool white led to my 50 watt warm white to get a little more blue. I think 60 watts at 4900 lumens might be enough for on small plant. thank you again for your input

PETFLORA in reading this thread it seems that you have a lot of experience with led lights. I would like your opinion on this combination. 3 10watt warm white leds (2700k) 1 10 watt 20000k led and one 10 watt 460nm blue led. a 50 watt warm white alone caused to much stretching so I think the addition of a 20000k white and a blue led would give more blue light and correct the problem but would like to draw on your experience thank you. I would like to use this for starting plants. the red wave ultra grow T5 is working great I have seen a dramatic increase in growth rate over a 6500k/3000k combo. I have ordered some of the floral sun maximum growth lights that I will be using for flowering. the red waves but out a little more blue while the floral suns favor the red spectrum. both lights give good coverage of the red and blue spectrum with a little green and seem well matched for plant growth.for anyone who has never worked with high power led modules (COB) never look directly at the light. you will see sun spots for several minutes afterwards. these things are bright!!!!!!

Just warm white and red 630 and red 660 is all you need for flower. For veg a mix of 4000k and 5000k is best for led. Anything higher than 5400k on the Kelvin scale is useless.

warm whites peak at about 610nm and put out a lot of red and far red light when used alone they seem to cause stretching and adding more red seems like it would make the problem worse. unlike black bodies the wavelength on white leds does not go down as the temperature rating increases. only the ratio of blue to longer wavelengths change they all have a peak around 450 nm give or take 10 nm the 20000k have more of this blue and less red and green.it is imposible to get the same broad balanced spectrum with leds with the current technology that aquarium lights provide.my goal is to increse blue light during veg to reduce streching that occurs when the red/blue balance is to far off.I do not believe that leds can match a well balance T5 at this stage of development but enjoy experimenting with them. leds may be able to beat HPS in terms of grams per watt if high powered chips are used( >5 watt) but the only comparison test I could find was published by a company that sells led grow lights.and I think the PROFs approach may allow T5s to beat HPS as well. but technology is rapidly evolving and leds may be the future.

FYI: hyroot has solid 411

As you are seeing, you can mix 6500/5000/3000 etc to speed up or slow down stretch

with your background, I highly recommend you check out the DIY LED forums, especially Supra

Here's my plants after 10 days basking under LEDs: 3500 & 5000K. I disconnected the 5000K this morning to gain a bit more stretch

4 weeks old wavepoint ultra growth wave.miracle grow potting soil. 70/30 indica/ sativa and 70/30 sativa/indica. on your leds how many watts per square foot do you use.I am still playing with the mix but I am liking the 10 watt diodes.found an interesting drive that can run 7 (70 watts) in series. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Constant-Current-Driver-for-18-pcs-3W-High-Power-LED-12-18x-3W-Driver-waterproof/370845531274?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20140211132617&meid=6074456763806380010&pid=100085&prg=20140211132617&rk=2&rkt=4&sd=331151016394&clkid=6074466810912347370&_qi=RTM1562570 I know ebay has a bad rep for leds but they are so cheap I can afford to by extras and pick the good ones.

it seems plants do need green light studies done in the 50's and 60's found that plants reflect 10% of red and blue light and 20% of green with a corresponding change in CO2 absorption. like everyone else here I am just trying to find the best light for my plants in a small closet MMJ grow. and it seems the action spectrum most commonly sited on these forums if for algie. higher plants have a flatter action spectrum and need full spectrum light from 420 to 680 nm these. spectrums are for anacharis sp (sea weed)

Here's today's update

Uh Oh, Where did the pic upload icon go? Can't pull photos from my pictures


Think differently about what is needed by plants, which is umols^m*

You should enjoy the DIY threads on RIU. Those guys have answers

there is a lot of discussion about SPD and no agreement on what plants really need. I found this old study that may shine some light on the subject http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/46/1/1.full.pdf more evolved plants need a broader action spectrum (spd) that includes green light. the attached graph shows clorophyll activity relative to intensity and studies using just red and blue leds found that the greatest activity occured with a 50/50 mix of red and blue. intensity is important to a certain point but with the right SPD (action curve) I believe good growth and high yield can be achieved with alot less energy.I am enjoying the DIY thread and this one on RIU but I believe that peer reviewed good scientific studies can help find better grow lights.umols^m squared is just another way of looking at intensity of light that adjust for the energy of wavelength being used but most of the action spectrums being cited on these sites are for green algae or "sea weed" the study I sited and dozens of others show that more developed plants require a broader spectrum. T5s like the floral sun or ultra growth wave come close to matching this spectrum as did the old grolux. with their higher efficiencies leds have the potential of outperforming other types of grow lights with the right spd.currently leds need to be operated at about 25% of full power to get these efficiencies and are expensive this will change in the near future but I see no market force that would drive the development of high efficiency monochromatic leds that would be needed to fine tune the SPD. an RWB mix does come a lot closer to that SPD than HPS or MH bulbs so would be a good replacement for them and LED growers are already outperforming them with the right growing techniques. I enjoy discussing this matter and I am sure there is much I can learn from you and others on these sites.