Let's take this shitty led apart and let's design a better one!

foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Alright so let's do this, I always wanted to do this and truthfully I was inspired by all the people making DiY led panels!
Awhile back, I purchased a light from Cidly, if your not familiar with them google it, pretty much shitty Chinese led panels for a cheaper price.
It's suppose to be a 360 watt 3w diodes.
It did fine for about 4 months then one led at a time went out.
I was going to return it but then I decided to keep it and fuck with it later down the road, well the time is here!
Let's take it apart and put it back together with upraded parts RIU!
I'm going to take it apart and show y'all what's inside,
let's test it,
see what's wrong with it,
Maybe we can salvage some things in it?
And after all that lets order the best of the best diodes for it,
Then when we r done lets grow some dank with it!
If y'all didn't catch my drift I kept saying "let's" meaning I want everyone's help with this(no worries I got the funds) I want all of us to put our input and make this panel legit!
So let's get started with the pics

Here's the panel when it's on and off
IMG_0071.jpgIMG_0072.jpgIMG_0083.jpg<---yes that is a cum stain, i cant help myself with these leds panels!! haha jk...

has 4 fans which all work so im geussin that all the power supplies are working


IMG_0074.jpg

Power switch, one side turns the unit on the other side doesn't do anything, once again shitty led
IMG_0075.jpgIMG_0076.jpg


Power supply, looks simple enough for me too understand how it works kinda..

IMG_0078.jpgIMG_0077.jpg

here are the diodes most of them dont work to the best of my knowledge, maybe it can be due to the drivers
but i actually think they got burnt out
IMG_0079.jpgIMG_0080.jpgIMG_0081.jpg
IMG_0082.jpgIMG_0073.jpg

ok so now what next yall?

i dont know much about the drivers so i wana get more info on that.

i wana run some test to see what is exactly broken, just not sure where to begin.

lets do some shoping for some bad ass diodes and maybe even drivers?



once agian this is a community project so this may take awhile, at the end this will be worth it,
and because this is a community project i think its only fair we name the remodeled panel, RIU LED
 
Rasser

Rasser

Active Member
I own a Apollo 6 like panel with is like yours but with 2 modules less, and i toke apart some days ago witch can be seen here.
You don't show any pictures of the back side of the panel so I'll post one here, since we are talking about changing LED's maybe,
witch looks like would be an easy thing to do.

The first job would be to find out what is working and what is not.

The driver are driving the 2 modules in parallel, so if you see 1.41A on the driver thats / 2 on the LED current
You can not run the drivers with only on module the LED's could blow, so remember that during testing.

First question is: Looking at picture 1, with only 2 modules are running, what about the others what happen to them
did you disconnect the drivers or did you switch the panel on and suddenly it looked like this ?

Edit: foreverflyhi "It did fine for about 4 months then one led at a time went out."

Was it single leds or hole modules ?

Apollo_6_19.jpg
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Rasser said:
I own a Apollo 6 like panel with is like yours but with 2 modules less, and i toke apart some days ago witch can be seen here.
You don't show any pictures of the back side of the panel so I'll post one here, since we are talking about changing LED's maybe,
witch looks like would be an easy thing to do.

The first job would be to find out what is working and what is not.

The driver are driving the 2 modules in parallel, so if you see 1.41A on the driver thats / 2 on the LED current
You can not run the drivers with only on module the LED's could blow, so remember that during testing.

First question is: Looking at picture 1, with only 2 modules are running, what about the others what happen to them
did you disconnect the drivers or did you switch the panel on and suddenly it looked like this ?

Edit: foreverflyhi "It did fine for about 4 months then one led at a time went out."

Was it single leds or hole modules ?

View attachment 2214263
Click to expand...
ok so one module on the left side of the panel went out first, then the one on top that one, then it slowly worked its way to the right side, i saw this happen right before my eyes, i then put the panel away, and when i turned it back on today what u see in that pic is whats left.

i will take pics of the bottoms side of the unit asap

and im not sure, i would geuss its single? or can u better explain that to us?
 
Rasser

Rasser

Active Member
foreverflyhi said:
ok so one module on the left side of the panel went out first,
Click to expand...
That's was what I was referring too with the single or module question.

Loosing one module at the time could both be a bad thing or good,
it could mean that it is the drivers that are busted, and the led's are fine,
or the modules are burned off, and the driver are fine.

I would start with disconnecting all the wires from the driver to the modules
and start with one driver and 2 modules, if that isn't working, then same driver with 2 other modules,
still nothing, another driver and same module, still nothing same driver and another module, still nothing,
you get the picture.

Checking to see if anyone has answered the multimeter question....nope

A...:-)

Multimeter can normally do 3 things
1. Measure voltage( by analog to digital conversion )
2. Measure resistance( by sending out volt and see how much current is drawn )
3. Measure current( by measuring how much voltage there is over a shunt resistor - a thick wire on cheap multimeter's when current flow through )

By measuring the resistance you can tell if most electronic components are defective.

I don't think drivers will run without modules connected, I think the fault indicators lit up when I did that, I'll have to test that.

The modules start lighting up at about 27 volts so it's difficult to test them without a laboratory power supply.
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
before we get into test one, i think its important to identify what is what, truth be told, i have no fucking idea what most these parts are. i dont even know what or where the drivers are?!:wall:

(4)fan keeps the unit cooler so it wont over heat (i think this is why this led panel broke)
diy 037.jpg
i believe these siver lookin blocks are the power supply?
diy 039.jpg

i have no idea what this little black box is, it has black and white wires that is connected to the switch also connected to each powersupply (silver block)
diy 040.jpg

each white circle is the module total 2 rows each row has 4 modules makes total of 8 modules i have no idea what the yellow board is? i know its holding it all down, but not sure what else it does or what its called

diy 033.jpgdiy 036.jpg

these modules contain 15 diodes colors are 5 blues 10 reds (flowering unit)
diy 034.jpg

ok so once we identify these parts properly, well go on to the test, if theres anything else u feel im leaving out like the drivers, let me know..

also i would like to add, whoever says stoners arnt motivated? ha! lets do thisbongsmilie
 
E

Eraserhead

Well-Known Member
The silver box things (should be 4 of them), those are your drivers, and the little black plastic box in the middle between 2 of the drivers, that is the driver for the fans.

That yellow stuff is a heat transfer pad.

Those wires are an absolute mess.
 
Rasser

Rasser

Active Member
I just measure the resistance on one of my disconnected modules and on a single led,
and there was no difference when switching the polarity as I would have thought,
the meter is not sending out enough volt for the LED to start drawing current, so it just reads OL.

So if you ware to measure something else then it should be a clear signal that the single LED is defective.

One of the cheap multimeter's(~16$) is sufficient for the job and I think you would look cool sitting there measuring the single LED's :bigjoint:
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Eraserhead said:
The silver box things (should be 4 of them), those are your drivers, and the little black plastic box in the middle between 2 of the drivers, that is the driver for the fans.

That yellow stuff is a heat transfer pad.

Those wires are an absolute mess.
Click to expand...
NICE!
silver box are the drivers for the modules
and the black box is the driver for the fan.
the yellow plate is a transfer pad (can this be salvaged?)
and yes the wires do look like a mess, but honestly if u give them a good look, its not that bad, im sure it can be more organized, that will be on our check list of things to improve.
now that we have that information, lets move on to the test.
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Rasser said:
I just measure the resistance on one of my disconnected modules and on a single led,
and there was no difference when switching the polarity as I would have thought,
the meter is not sending out enough volt for the LED to start drawing current, so it just reads OL.

So if you ware to measure something else then it should be a clear signal that the single LED is defective.

One of the cheap multimeter's(~16$) is sufficient for the job and I think you would look cool sitting there measuring the single LED's :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
what else would i measure? and its strange becuase when i was conducting the first test, only a couple of modules turn on, but not full blast? ill post results up with pics ASAP
 
Rasser

Rasser

Active Member
If you where to measure lets say 10-10.000 ohm over a single LED then it's properly had a meltdown.

When I first saw the small plugs used to connect the modules to the drivers I was a little suspicious.

When I found out that the modules had to be connected in parallel, for enabling the driver to deliver the 1.4A as it say on the label,
I thought what would happen if the connection to one of the modules got cut, then the driver would increase the voltage until it
could feel a draw of 1.4A amps, the problem is that one module is using 700mA at 36V so when the driver is increasing it to the max 45V
the single module is drawing way more than it can handle and burn off. That's the way a-ha a-ha, Shit, it would work if there was no protection circuit
build in. I tried to run on one module only for a few seconds, before I had thought about what could happen, and when I switch the unit on
with 2 drivers disconnected totally, and one driver connected to a single module, the single module was flashing periodically every half second or so.
I quickly switch the unit off and connected both modules and checked that they where both running as before, and they did look identical.

So it looked like the protection circuit was working, can't recall if the red indicator LED's lit up during that.
Anyway my worry about what would happen if the plugs lost one of the connections was laid to rest.
 
Rasser

Rasser

Active Member
I posted this in another thread, I highly recommend seeing the video and maybe playing with the construction kit to get a hand on the basics when you get the time.

A guy on youtube is explaining it's functions Here and giving a crash course in ohm law.

Click image for site.



Edit: Someone really stoned said in a post above "The modules start lighting up at about 27 volts so it's difficult to test them without a laboratory power supply."

Now the question is, why not just use 3 9V batteries in series Dohh, there is plenty of light in the LED's at 27V
to see if they are working and are all shining the same.

One could always add a 1.5V battery to the chain and 28.5V is so far from 36V where the module draws 700mA(the maximum "allowed") so it's safe.
It should also be easy to connect the 3 batteries together, but I think you have to cut the plug off the wire to the module to test it on the 27V battery, you can always use cable joints if it turns out that the module is fine.



 
D

davemedinis

Member
foreverflyhi said:
Alright so let's do this, I always wanted to do this and truthfully I was inspired by all the people making DiY led panels!
Awhile back, I purchased a light from Cidly, if your not familiar with them google it, pretty much shitty Chinese led panels for a cheaper price.
It's suppose to be a 360 watt 3w diodes.
It did fine for about 4 months then one led at a time went out.
I was going to return it but then I decided to keep it and fuck with it later down the road, well the time is here!
Let's take it apart and put it back together with upraded parts RIU!
I'm going to take it apart and show y'all what's inside,
let's test it,
see what's wrong with it,
Maybe we can salvage some things in it?
And after all that lets order the best of the best diodes for it,
Then when we r done lets grow some dank with it!
If y'all didn't catch my drift I kept saying "let's" meaning I want everyone's help with this(no worries I got the funds) I want all of us to put our input and make this panel legit!
So let's get started with the pics

Here's the panel when it's on and off
View attachment 2214190View attachment 2214195View attachment 2214237<---yes that is a cum stain, i cant help myself with these leds panels!! haha jk...

has 4 fans which all work so im geussin that all the power supplies are working


View attachment 2214201

Power switch, one side turns the unit on the other side doesn't do anything, once again shitty led
View attachment 2214217View attachment 2214222


Power supply, looks simple enough for me too understand how it works kinda..

View attachment 2214223View attachment 2214226

here are the diodes most of them dont work to the best of my knowledge, maybe it can be due to the drivers
but i actually think they got burnt out
View attachment 2214227View attachment 2214228View attachment 2214229
View attachment 2214230View attachment 2214199

ok so now what next yall?

i dont know much about the drivers so i wana get more info on that.

i wana run some test to see what is exactly broken, just not sure where to begin.

lets do some shoping for some bad ass diodes and maybe even drivers?



once agian this is a community project so this may take awhile, at the end this will be worth it,
and because this is a community project i think its only fair we name the remodeled panel, RIU LED
Click to expand...
The modules definitely should have all been burnt, there were still two of them remain, you have been lucky enough.
Each Apollo driver runs two modules and all drivers are connected as a series, this is why the Cidly claims- if one driver gets burnt, the other drivers will continue running the whole lamp in a good condition.
Yes, of course, this design could have been a great one if the LEDs had not been burnt too often. But unfortunately, the fact is at the opposite-their LEDs get more problems than their drivers.
What is the disadvantage of connecting all drivers together in a series? It means the total input current will never change however many LEDs or modules have been burnt.
Let me explain it more clearly- if one orb gets burnt, the total input current is still the same as before because all drivers are connected as a series, it means the rest running LEDs have to tolerate far more input current than ever before, and in fact, they have been driven at 700mA. And after one module gets burnt, the remain LEDs could be run at 800mA, 900mA.... and the more orbs get burnt, the more input current the rest LEDs have to tolerate... finally all of them get burnt if you don't turn off the lamp quickly.
For instance, the Apollo 4, if one orb gets burnt, each orb of the other three ones will have to tolerate more 1/3 input current, each LED will be run at 700mA+700mA x 1/3=700+233.33...= 933.33...mA, let's imagine what will happen....
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
I don't know much about LEDs/electricity so this might seem really stupid and be totally ass backwards but...

I thought these constant current drivers varied in voltage out but not mA out (or they wouldn't be constant current). So if you had say two 350mA 25-100v supplies in series they would put out 700mA between 50-200v based on what the LEDs are pulling. So if you had two 700mA arrays that each ran at 75v and you lost one then the second array would still be receiving 700mA but it would pull 75v total instead of the previous 125v.

Is this not true? I thought the whole reason behind using constant current drivers instead of constant voltage was to ensure mA delivery didn't fluctuate. Does the voltage not drop when the array burns out?

Like if I used this Mean Well driver: Mean Well LPC-35-700 constant current driver
Which operates at 700mA 9-48v; I could have it running 4 3wLEDs or 12 3w LEDs and all that would differ is the voltage, not the mA.
 
E

Eraserhead

Well-Known Member
You are correct.

Constant current is constant current. If a driver is 50-100v, that means you need to have enough LEDs in one string to make at least 50v, but no more than 100v.

So, lets say you have 20pcs of 3.5v LEDs, that would give you 70v. If you took that driver that is 50-100v, and 700mA, you'd have 70v x 700mA = 49w, or 2.45w per LED

If you added 5 more LEDs @ 3.5v each, you'd have 87.5v, but still the same 700mA, you'd now have 61.25w, but dived by 25 LEDs, you still have 2.45w per LED.


Gastanker said:
I don't know much about LEDs/electricity so this might seem really stupid and be totally ass backwards but...

I thought these constant current drivers varied in voltage out but not mA out (or they wouldn't be constant current). So if you had say two 350mA 25-100v supplies in series they would put out 700mA between 50-200v based on what the LEDs are pulling. So if you had two 700mA arrays that each ran at 75v and you lost one then the second array would still be receiving 700mA but it would pull 75v total instead of the previous 125v.

Is this not true? I thought the whole reason behind using constant current drivers instead of constant voltage was to ensure mA delivery didn't fluctuate. Does the voltage not drop when the array burns out?

Like if I used this Mean Well driver: Mean Well LPC-35-700 constant current driver
Which operates at 700mA 9-48v; I could have it running 4 3wLEDs or 12 3w LEDs and all that would differ is the voltage, not the mA.
Click to expand...
 
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