Looking for advice on this complete clone, vege & flower setup ???

C

cjcooper

New Member
If you were to start fresh with what you know now, how would you setup ? This is a setup a friend of mine is looking at buying shortly. Hoping to take 16 plants through to harvest every 6-8 weeks. With a combined growth & flower period of 12-14 weeks, producing 3+ Oz per plant (hopefully) Ive chucked in some questions under each section, I'm pretty new to the hydroponics world so please bare with me here. I'm very open to any advice, input or experience & it would be much appreciated. All measurements are in centremetres (cm) sorry for any inconvenience.

CLONE TENT
1 - 120cm-120cm-200cm tent
1 - 50cm double bulb CFL light
1 - 100cm-100cm heat pad
1 - thermo/hydro meter
25 - rockwool cubes
25 - 2L pots with coco/perlite
1 - bottle of clonex

Hes not planning on using a clone dome instead hoping the heatpad, CFL light & maybe a tray with water to increase the humidity would be suffice ? Is 24 hours ideal for cloning or is a few hours dark beneficial ? Just water with a spray bottle, nothing to the roots ? Wanting to leave them in this tent for 3 weeks, before transferring them over to the vege tent, is this a good idea ? Does the clone tent need a small centrifugal fan, osolating fan or would having the door to the tent slightly open provide enough ventilation ? Is there any clone nutrients you recommend ? His plan is to do 25 clones every cycle, picking out the best 18 to go into the vege tent.

VEGE TENT
1 - 220cm-120cm-200cm tent
2 - 600W MH bulbs in 15.5cm-59cm cool tubes
2 - centrifugal fans, one to cool the lights & one to suck air out of the tent. What Size fans does he need for each purpose ?
2 - osolating fans, unsure on the best size to get for a vege tent this size ?
18 - 10L paint buckets with drain holes & coco/perlite mix
1 - thermo/hydro meter

Are cool tubes necessary in this size tent for 2 600w MH lights, max temp in this climate would be 34C & only getting this hot a few days a year. Usual summer temp of around 27C. Would you bother with MH bulbs or stick to HPS in a ideal vege tent ? How do you guys cope with low outside tempetures in winter around the -5C mark ? When this cold air is being sucked into the tent do you put a fan heater in the tent when lights are off ? Whats the best light cycle for vege, 18/6 or 19/5 or 20/4 etc ? What do you think of the CANNA line of nutrients & what would you use specifically for vegetative growth ? How do you manipulate the growth of your mother plant if your keeping her in the vege tent, specifically when the plants are small & you don't wont to have the light too high above them so they don't over stretch, but at the same time you don't want to burn the top of your mother ? Planning on taking 18 through this tent every cycle, transferring the best 16 into the flower tent after 6 weeks.

FLOWER TENT
1 - 240cm-240cm-200cm tent
4 - 600W HPS lights in 15.5cm-59cm cool tubes
1 - carbon filter, what size would work well for this size tent & number of plants ?
2 - centrifugal fans, again what size would you recommend to cool 4 600W HPS lights & what size to remove air from the grow space itself through the carbon filter ? Is it necessary to run any in-line fans in this tent given the extra lights & extra overall space ?
2 - osolating fans, what size would be ideal ?
16 - 10L paint buckets with drain holes, are these size growing pots going to hinder growth in anyway ? is there a reason the ones in the grow shops are wider than a standard paint bucket ? Whats the best drainage setup/catch tray sort of thing, do those little ones slightly bigger than the grow pot itself work ?
1 - thermo/hydro meter
1 - 200L drum with an aquarium heater & fish pump. This being the only water storage/heating device hes planning on having, nutrients will be added each watering as obviously each tent requires different mixes. Does this cause any problems with the plants reacting to minor changes of nutrient amount from human error, I'm talking like a few mills over 30L ? Is CANNAs range of flowering nutreints any good ?

I know theres a lot here, thanks for taking the time to read it. If you can answer any of these questions or offer any advice that would be much appreciated. None of the above plan is set in concrete, that's why I'm here asking you guys with the experience if this sounds like the sort of setup you would run if you were to start from scratch.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
every bit of this information is available on this website, if you bother to do the reading. it seems like your friend is about to waste a lot of money, tell him to do some more research before he starts dropping a lot of change
 
HydoDan

HydoDan

Well-Known Member
Has your buddy got any grow experience? Start small and learn as you go..
It's no easy task bringing 16 plants to harvest, for some it's impossible..
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
cjcooper said:
If you were to start fresh with what you know now, how would you setup ? This is a setup a friend of mine is looking at buying shortly. Hoping to take 16 plants through to harvest every 6-8 weeks. With a combined growth & flower period of 12-14 weeks, producing 3+ Oz per plant (hopefully) Ive chucked in some questions under each section, I'm pretty new to the hydroponics world so please bare with me here. I'm very open to any advice, input or experience & it would be much appreciated. All measurements are in centremetres (cm) sorry for any inconvenience.

CLONE TENT
1 - 120cm-120cm-200cm tent
1 - 50cm double bulb CFL light
1 - 100cm-100cm heat pad
1 - thermo/hydro meter
25 - rockwool cubes
25 - 2L pots with coco/perlite
1 - bottle of clonex

Hes not planning on using a clone dome instead hoping the heatpad, CFL light & maybe a tray with water to increase the humidity would be suffice ? Is 24 hours ideal for cloning or is a few hours dark beneficial ? Just water with a spray bottle, nothing to the roots ? Wanting to leave them in this tent for 3 weeks, before transferring them over to the vege tent, is this a good idea ? Does the clone tent need a small centrifugal fan, osolating fan or would having the door to the tent slightly open provide enough ventilation ? Is there any clone nutrients you recommend ? His plan is to do 25 clones every cycle, picking out the best 18 to go into the vege tent.

VEGE TENT
1 - 220cm-120cm-200cm tent
2 - 600W MH bulbs in 15.5cm-59cm cool tubes
2 - centrifugal fans, one to cool the lights & one to suck air out of the tent. What Size fans does he need for each purpose ?
2 - osolating fans, unsure on the best size to get for a vege tent this size ?
18 - 10L paint buckets with drain holes & coco/perlite mix
1 - thermo/hydro meter

Are cool tubes necessary in this size tent for 2 600w MH lights, max temp in this climate would be 34C & only getting this hot a few days a year. Usual summer temp of around 27C. Would you bother with MH bulbs or stick to HPS in a ideal vege tent ? How do you guys cope with low outside tempetures in winter around the -5C mark ? When this cold air is being sucked into the tent do you put a fan heater in the tent when lights are off ? Whats the best light cycle for vege, 18/6 or 19/5 or 20/4 etc ? What do you think of the CANNA line of nutrients & what would you use specifically for vegetative growth ? How do you manipulate the growth of your mother plant if your keeping her in the vege tent, specifically when the plants are small & you don't wont to have the light too high above them so they don't over stretch, but at the same time you don't want to burn the top of your mother ? Planning on taking 18 through this tent every cycle, transferring the best 16 into the flower tent after 6 weeks.

FLOWER TENT
1 - 240cm-240cm-200cm tent
4 - 600W HPS lights in 15.5cm-59cm cool tubes
1 - carbon filter, what size would work well for this size tent & number of plants ?
2 - centrifugal fans, again what size would you recommend to cool 4 600W HPS lights & what size to remove air from the grow space itself through the carbon filter ? Is it necessary to run any in-line fans in this tent given the extra lights & extra overall space ?
2 - osolating fans, what size would be ideal ?
16 - 10L paint buckets with drain holes, are these size growing pots going to hinder growth in anyway ? is there a reason the ones in the grow shops are wider than a standard paint bucket ? Whats the best drainage setup/catch tray sort of thing, do those little ones slightly bigger than the grow pot itself work ?
1 - thermo/hydro meter
1 - 200L drum with an aquarium heater & fish pump. This being the only water storage/heating device hes planning on having, nutrients will be added each watering as obviously each tent requires different mixes. Does this cause any problems with the plants reacting to minor changes of nutrient amount from human error, I'm talking like a few mills over 30L ? Is CANNAs range of flowering nutreints any good ?

I know theres a lot here, thanks for taking the time to read it. If you can answer any of these questions or offer any advice that would be much appreciated. None of the above plan is set in concrete, that's why I'm here asking you guys with the experience if this sounds like the sort of setup you would run if you were to start from scratch.
Click to expand...

hey .....impressive u went that deep
here is some new way of thinking

1 the clone and veggie area can been in the same part as the light timing is the same unless u want to run a 24/0 clone .....doing this will lessen the over all cost of gear and energy used to controlled the evo

2 cfls for cloning are shit ......1 light per clone works to a point but the heat made by the lights is not worth it .....T5 light a 2 or 4 foot light 8 bulb
2a ...break down a plant needs at least 15k lumens (faster rooting) basic needs only 5k but slower .....T5 bulbs 2 foot are 2k lumens 4 foot are 5k lumens......u want something in the 5k light range (i know can be confusing .....same rating as the CFLs u want 5000 kelvin rating a blue white light best for growth)

3 Hid lighting is good it has the best area of coverage .......but LED or COB are the best choice when cooling the heat is a issue / power consumption .....u will spend little more on getting the light but remember the light last 5 years compared to what ever brand of bulbs u use (led do not need to worry about hot starts and blowing bulbs from power flickers in the system )

4 your power use is way to high .......look at all your gear and the power required to use it now factor in 10%-20% more for oh shit factor ( something happens in the grow and u need to fix it ) ....u need to combine where u can to remove the extra support gear needed .........as u have it now i can account for almost 10 20 amp breakers


come back once u had time to think about this .....i am just saying if u are dead set on this way say something and i will answer the rest of what u asked
 
C

cjcooper

New Member
justugh said:
hey .....impressive u went that deep
here is some new way of thinking

1 the clone and veggie area can been in the same part as the light timing is the same unless u want to run a 24/0 clone .....doing this will lessen the over all cost of gear and energy used to controlled the evo

2 cfls for cloning are shit ......1 light per clone works to a point but the heat made by the lights is not worth it .....T5 light a 2 or 4 foot light 8 bulb
2a ...break down a plant needs at least 15k lumens (faster rooting) basic needs only 5k but slower .....T5 bulbs 2 foot are 2k lumens 4 foot are 5k lumens......u want something in the 5k light range (i know can be confusing .....same rating as the CFLs u want 5000 kelvin rating a blue white light best for growth)

3 Hid lighting is good it has the best area of coverage .......but LED or COB are the best choice when cooling the heat is a issue / power consumption .....u will spend little more on getting the light but remember the light last 5 years compared to what ever brand of bulbs u use (led do not need to worry about hot starts and blowing bulbs from power flickers in the system )

4 your power use is way to high .......look at all your gear and the power required to use it now factor in 10%-20% more for oh shit factor ( something happens in the grow and u need to fix it ) ....u need to combine where u can to remove the extra support gear needed .........as u have it now i can account for almost 10 20 amp breakers


come back once u had time to think about this .....i am just saying if u are dead set on this way say something and i will answer the rest of what u asked
Click to expand...
Cheers mate I appreciate this. I was under the assumption that the clones wouldn't do any good in the vege tent due to the high wattage lights ? T5s being better for cloning than CFLs noted, what about the benefits of a heatpad to encourage rooting ? Are those clone domes worth the money, ive read that you need take the dome off to let the clones breathe several times per day, something I wont be able to do due to work comitments. Once in the morning & once at night would be the only time I could tend to the babies. Is there another system more suited to my situation that also produces good cloning percentages & if so can you help us out with the details ? Cheers.

Looking into LED lighting now, specifically those Mars600 or Mars1000 lights. Ive seen them going for a good price on ebay wich is convenient for me as I'm pretty far off the beaten track country wise. You said that they have a smaller lighting footprint though so how many & of what wattage to nicely cover my vege & flower area ? Also given that they produce less heat, is a small fan heater necessary for those colder months where tempeteres are reaching -5C, that's 23F. Cheers
 
HydoDan

HydoDan

Well-Known Member
cjcooper said:
Cheers mate I appreciate this. I was under the assumption that the clones wouldn't do any good in the vege tent due to the high wattage lights ? T5s being better for cloning than CFLs noted, what about the benefits of a heatpad to encourage rooting ? Are those clone domes worth the money, ive read that you need take the dome off to let the clones breathe several times per day, something I wont be able to do due to work comitments. Once in the morning & once at night would be the only time I could tend to the babies. Is there another system more suited to my situation that also produces good cloning percentages & if so can you help us out with the details ? Cheers.

Looking into LED lighting now, specifically those Mars600 or Mars1000 lights. Ive seen them going for a good price on ebay wich is convenient for me as I'm pretty far off the beaten track country wise. You said that they have a smaller lighting footprint though so how many & of what wattage to nicely cover my vege & flower area ? Also given that they produce less heat, is a small fan heater necessary for those colder months where tempeteres are reaching -5C, that's 23F. Cheers
Click to expand...
Don't buy Mars they are cheap junk!
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Vegetation:

Simple and cheap, small MH, T5-HO or LED. LED is preferred because of the cost savings over time.

Cloning/Seeding:

This can be done in the vegetation chamber or you can make your own chamber. T5-HO or LED here only, you really don't need more than 12W of light per square foot.

I'd use a two gallon bucket with one inch holes and a simple pump and sprayer. This simple aeroponics cloner can yield twenty-five viable clones in two weeks if executed properly.

Flowering:

I'm going to recommend a HID that will properly fit your space, LED is right behind that, I'd hold off on LED until you learn the basics. People are still figuring out how to use them properly (height from canopy, how hard to drive them, canopy and ambient temperatures, etc.).

Techniques:

Topping is first. Do this on your first grow, don't let those plants grow out of control.

Defoliation is second, but you'll do this every grow.

LST is your next grow. String or screen will work for this.

Then, move onto HST.

After that, dip into hydro and you'll be done. From there you will have learned everything you need to grow anything anywhere. Think of it as scaling, there is a minimum and the only maximum is land and your wallet.

:leaf:
 
R

Rastas420

Member
If it helps, my "friend" has a 5x5 veg/clone tent with shelving and T5s. Depending on the strain, depends on how many he takes in to the flower room and how big his Smart Pots are, because all strains finish at different times.

It's a 5x9 area with ONE Gavita 1000w DE on a light rail. If you're paying for electricity you might want to consider a light rail. He had no idea about phenos, why not to grow multiple strains together, why to ditch the scruffy looking laggers etc. He still pulled a pound in 10 weeks. Hardly used any nutrients either, less than 1/4 strength.

Buy premium products, so you only buy them once and utilise your space wisely. A 4x4 cloning tent would be ridiculous, unless you filled it with shelving, had mothers and were actually selling clones.

Find ways to get light to places so you don't need to buy more lights. For example, the fleuros over the mums might be enough light to reflect on the fresh clones while they're trying to root on the shelves.

And if you're in Australia, which I'm guessing you are, this hobby is very fucking expensive! Wait till you see the power bill.

A flower cycle alone costs near $700. And that's making sure the lights are flicked on and off at the right times. Don't listen to LEDs and their power draw numbers etc. it's all bullshit. They're expensive to run too.
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
cjcooper said:
Cheers mate I appreciate this. I was under the assumption that the clones wouldn't do any good in the vege tent due to the high wattage lights ? T5s being better for cloning than CFLs noted, what about the benefits of a heatpad to encourage rooting ? Are those clone domes worth the money, ive read that you need take the dome off to let the clones breathe several times per day, something I wont be able to do due to work comitments. Once in the morning & once at night would be the only time I could tend to the babies. Is there another system more suited to my situation that also produces good cloning percentages & if so can you help us out with the details ? Cheers.

Looking into LED lighting now, specifically those Mars600 or Mars1000 lights. Ive seen them going for a good price on ebay wich is convenient for me as I'm pretty far off the beaten track country wise. You said that they have a smaller lighting footprint though so how many & of what wattage to nicely cover my vege & flower area ? Also given that they produce less heat, is a small fan heater necessary for those colder months where tempeteres are reaching -5C, that's 23F. Cheers
Click to expand...

well the seed heat mats are a iffy thing .......i honestly rather use the top of the t5 light .....the bulbs them self make some heat and that worked for me great for popping my seeds i have like a 99.4% success rate in 6 years now 10 seeds did not pop doing 3 to 4 every 14/21 days for 4 years

as for the opening the domes yes and no ...........seltzer water (something with Co2 in it but nothing bad like soda) a cup of that in a container in the dome set up with the lid with slight opening .......the Co2 in the water will release into the dome pushing the oxygen out ......plants under lights want CO2 .....this will give u 2 3 days before need to replace the CO2 in the dome (so u can get a weekend out)



as for lights
http://www.ledzeal.com/p44.html

look them over .......i love them and used for years now with good results ...........as for how many that is 100% up to u .....i like overkill i want that maximum yield light in all of my area (so i am the wrong person to ask if keeping to a budget)

understand these are not a store or anything like this this is the marker of the lights directly in HK ......if u like them and want a current price list contact them (little box on left hand side and email them) they will send u 1 or 1000 lights and it is much cheaper then anything u will find (u can price check them what the maker sells for and what the retail is letting u buy for huge different)
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Rastas420 said:
And if you're in Australia, which I'm guessing you are, this hobby is very fucking expensive! Wait till you see the power bill.

A flower cycle alone costs near $700. And that's making sure the lights are flicked on and off at the right times. Don't listen to LEDs and their power draw numbers etc. it's all bullshit. They're expensive to run too.
Click to expand...
Damn thats expensive. I only run a 600w and i was expecting my bill to be way less than that..like way less.
http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/electricity-calculator.htm and using
Standard residential rates
Light and power – Tariff 31

Energy (all units) 25.900 ¢/kWh

A 600w running 24hrs a day @ 29.5 cents is $3.70 a day.
Now thats not including the off peak savings so should be less.
When going back to 12/12 it will be $1.80 a day or less if i choose off peak times.

Is that how it works or have i fkd up?
 
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C

cjcooper

New Member
Cheers mate I appreciate you taking the time to school me on this, avoid buying the wrong gear etc. Hope you don't mind me running the following past you, just tryna setup the right way & make sure I'm not missing anything.

Ill have a look at those lights you've linked, am I roughly in the right ball park with my lights to space & wattage etc ? What wattage & how many LEDs would you be putting in each tent if you wanted optimal growing conditions using the entire space in both tents, high yields in good time while keeping it cost effective ?

Would you say 150mm or 200mm exhaust fan for the vege space & 250mm or something larger for the flower tent ? Carbon filter that will actually remove all the smell are the 600mm long ones fine or would you advise paying that bit extra for the 1m long ones ?

Pot size. Would 20L buckets benefit the plant or is this just a waste of growing medium for a 12-14 week total growing cycle ? (non auto strain)

Yield wise, are LEDs superior or atleast equal to HPS ? Heat & power consumption aside.

Best nutrient brand, Nutrifield or Canna. I'm keen on one of these two as they are the main brands available to me without importing & waiting weeks for it to arrive in my country. What products of chosen brand would you keep in your grow room, obviously the A & B for vege & A & B for flower but are the extra bottles they stock worth the money ?

Foliage spraying once, once clones are in pots. Is their any benefit to this or is it a waste of time ?

Co2 in the flower tent, if your airs already being replaced by the fan every few minutes would you still advise adding a small co2 lamp burner thing ?
 
C

cjcooper

New Member
Rastas420 said:
If it helps, my "friend" has a 5x5 veg/clone tent with shelving and T5s. Depending on the strain, depends on how many he takes in to the flower room and how big his Smart Pots are, because all strains finish at different times.

It's a 5x9 area with ONE Gavita 1000w DE on a light rail. If you're paying for electricity you might want to consider a light rail. He had no idea about phenos, why not to grow multiple strains together, why to ditch the scruffy looking laggers etc. He still pulled a pound in 10 weeks. Hardly used any nutrients either, less than 1/4 strength.

Buy premium products, so you only buy them once and utilise your space wisely. A 4x4 cloning tent would be ridiculous, unless you filled it with shelving, had mothers and were actually selling clones.

Find ways to get light to places so you don't need to buy more lights. For example, the fleuros over the mums might be enough light to reflect on the fresh clones while they're trying to root on the shelves.

And if you're in Australia, which I'm guessing you are, this hobby is very fucking expensive! Wait till you see the power bill.

A flower cycle alone costs near $700. And that's making sure the lights are flicked on and off at the right times. Don't listen to LEDs and their power draw numbers etc. it's all bullshit. They're expensive to run too.
Click to expand...
Nah mate, your nearest neighbor tho. Powers a bit cheaper here too. 15c pkw, so like $32.50 per month for 1 600w hps on 12/12. If my maths is correct.
 
R

Rastas420

Member
I see. I'm pretty sure I pay double that. I'm overseas ATM so I can't check. I was under the impression our downtime (off peak?) was still 19c p/kw. It's pretty bad. It is getting very expensive and I only grow for me and my girlfriend. But it's cheaper than psych appointments and pharmacy medicine. I was spending upwards of $3,000 a year on medication alone. Now I always keep one rolled ;)
 
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