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Lucas Formula. should i be adding a "bud booster" ? is lucas worth it?

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by budtoker0987, Oct 20, 2013.

  1.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    Hey all, long story short started in hydro, with the full GE flora series line, roots got fucking gross brown and never recovered. figured out of the what? like 5 different things i was told to use i screwed up SOMETHING, i was blaming the floralicious plus because is so damn thick and guckky.. Anyways I read about Lucas, it seemed easy, so i coulod at least get some grows in, then i'd go back to a full line of something. I was thinking the Botanicare line.. Thoughts? :)

    Question, has anyone used Lucas and have you added a "bud booster" during veg, or are u strictly sticking with 8ml micro/16ml bloom?

    Right now im doing 100ppm cal mag in RO water, 8/16 and adding botanicare sweet. :)

    Thanks!!!!
     
  2.  
    smokegreenshlt

    smokegreenshlt Active Member

    I use Lucas method in my hempys....veg I do 5/10 and flower 8/16(ml) ...I use dechlorinated tap water ... I use calimagic in week 3 of beg to week 3 of bloom...but only if a plantu is showing it may need some more gunk in her trunk lol....and I use no other bloom boosters either...I have been highly debating going to the flora nova shit tho....cuz not having to mix shit would be awesome....and I heard its for harder water like out of the tap...and the pH buffers are better suited for that....
     
  3.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    5/10 only for veg huh? I have been actually adding a little grow too because they looked a little bright green.

    WOW i just re read what i asked and i meant is anyone using a bud booster in FLOWER.. wtf... facepalm. Sorry!!!

    So smoke, no sugar like molassas or anything like that? what you growing in?
     
  4.  
    smokegreenshlt

    smokegreenshlt Active Member

    Nope nothing but base nutes for me...I grow in perlite hempys
     
  5.  
    nameno

    nameno Well-Known Member

    I was using GH 3 part,after a few grows tried the lucas formula and I add powder kool bloom last3 weeks it sure makes for large buds.
    I been thinking about the botincare(?) I used it years ago never had a problem. I want to try something to bring out the smell.
    I haven't seen any that smells like it did 3 or 4 years ago. What used to make the east coast from the west coast was perfect,not so any more what's happening? What I been doing is getting me better highs than I can buy now.It may be that people are buying from local growers that just don't match up to the experience from long time growers.Let me shut up I already said more than I know. Peaace.
     
  6.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    It depends if you're goal is for the most sugariest, tightest buds, or the largest heaviest yielding harvest, or something in between. If you are going to strictly use the lucas formula you will get very nice tightly formed (strain dependent of course-pure sativa's are a bit of a different story) sugary buds but they won't swell and yield the heaviest for your plants potential. When you use the lucas formula you are not using the grow in the 3 part system. The theory is that the micro has enough nitrogen in it for the plant to develop well throughout it's whole cycle. This is true to a point but your plant will NOT yield to it's max potential with this formula because of the drastically lower level of nitrogen in the formula.
    I'm a commercial med grower. I've been growing for 20 years. We have systematically tried pretty much every combo of ratio's of the 3 part and 2 part systems over the years. And that is what we found. We do side by side controlled experiments with clones not seeded plants from the same mothers. In the same completely controlled sealed room systems. We have done some controlled test grows for a local nute company.

    Over the years we have fine tuned our own formula of base nutes and boosters to get us what we feel is the best product and best possible yield. Though we adjust the formula slightly for different strains because different strains can react differently to different strength nute ratios.

    If you went with a 1/1/1 ratio throughout your grow with an added booster like kool bloom or big bud (in powder form-much more positive affect than liquid) throughout your flowering stage you would maximize the yield potential of your plant. When you get some grows under your belt you should start playing with those base nute ratio's and cut back slightly on the grow and micro and increase very slightly the bloom. A 1/2/3 (G/M/B) formula is a nice formula for both yield and quality but it isn't the best either. The yield will be less than a 1/1/1 with booster formula. So tweak it till get what you want from your plants.

    Always start off weak with your formulas then very gradually increase ratios to see how the plants react. In hydro they will react much quicker and more drastically than in soil. So start off with lower ppm/tds measurements and you'll be safer from burning, stressing, or locking out nutrients.

    Feel free to pm me if you want more specific info.

    Good luck
     
    budtoker0987 likes this.
  7.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    Botanicare Sweet will bring out some strong smells of your flowers but a lot of companies make carb/amino,vitamin etc additives to aid in this BUT it isn't just food or your grow environment that helps with the smell of your flowers. After harvest care, drying, and curing of your product will preserve those strong dank smells your flowers have during growth.
    If you mishandle, dry and cure your product poorly and too quickly you will end up with weak smelling, dull looking buds. If you want to keep that smell in your flowers dry them very cool (62F) and very slowly and have a bit of space on your racks between buds; don't cram them or overlap them on drying screens. Use an a/c or some sort of cooling system in your drying room with a de-hum in the dark. Don't go lower than 50% humidity at ANY time during your drying and you will keep all that great smell in. Drying of small popcorn buds should take at least a week or more. Mid sized to large top buds should take up to 2 weeks to fully dry. When they are about to be fully dry you can further cure them for even more evenly dried and dank buds
     
  8.  
    tallstraw

    tallstraw Active Member

    You added molasses to your Hydro? Which is most likrly airrated as well? No wonder you had brown gross roots. It probably created bad bacteria. What you use in soil isn't the same for hydro.

    Like he said though. Lucas is a base. You can tweak it from there. I'm gonna start adding more bloom to the lucas method for my coco, and see if it helps bolster the buds. As well as some of those snow supplement things that make better resin production. But Ithink II'm gonna do that next grow. And take some chttings off my best plants this grow, and try the addiditves and see what it does.
     
  9.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    No, i didnt ever use molassas. i Was just asking if ppl have.

    BCOGYODA thanks for the good info man. If i may ask, what system do you grow in? And you say you have a specific modification of nutes.. what brand? Ya I dont know if im totally sold on the lucas formula its just something that was easy when i was having nothing but issues. at least for my flowering ladies and the new lil ones that are already getting lucas I will continue it for those but im thinking of changing it up after that. maybe the whole line again.

    but like you were saying BC, the buds, they smell pretty good but for a good little bit they smelled "planty" but now its been over a week of curing and they smell way better. but when they were live they smelled like super fruity!

    How i harvested: for one they could hve gone another maybe two days but the veg room was overfloweing so badly we had to cut.
    trimmed right awasy and put in nets to dry i honestly dont know the temp and humidiy i just know it was in the dark in the basement. Id say it had to be close to 65F and like 40% give or take some
    they sat for i think 5 or 6 days before i took out all the popcorn, basically anything that the stem would actually snap on i put in jars.
    The bigger buds stayed for another two days and got jarred.
    been getting burped 3 times a day for 15 mins for the first week. now they geting around like 10 mins twice a day. right now is about.... 2 weeks of curing i thingk...

    They do smell pretty damn good right now. but like when i go a put the cap back on they have a little "Planty" smell. it seems to be going away tho...

    But if using Botanicare would give me better tasting smelling buds. im in!!
     
  10.  
    JohnnySocko

    JohnnySocko Active Member

    I read something similar to what you posted, but as usual the poster spent more time referring you with links than offering a one sentence explanation...
    . So are you saying skip GH's feed chart and just go 1-1-1 all the way through? (ppms being 800-100-1400 seedling-veg-bloom ;respectively or you do something different? (pardon, but it just sounds so simple he he) ...and specifically just then follow the amt/feeding sched on the instructions of Big bud et..... again, if you could hold our hands here and re-educate us , I'm all ear s
     
  11.  
    apollo4

    apollo4 Well-Known Member

    Yeah 1tbls each never exceed per gl then koolbloom
     
  12.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    I grow in soil in SOG's I also have a some larger trees. I use a combo of nutes some are from different companies but my 3 part is Advanced Nutes Jungle (not ph perfect). My booster is Big Bud by Advanced. I use enzymes, carbs, vitamins, pro silicate, and I flush with Final Phase. But it doesn't matter which company you get the carbs from or the vitamins or pro silicate etc..Senzizyme and Grozyme are both good. Grozyme is more concentrated. For a booster I've tried so many and If I had to only narrow it down to 2 different ones they would be Big Bud or Kool Bloom. You don't have to use one specific company's nutes. I get a very good deal on my nutes cause we buy them at commercial rates so that's why I buy Advanced for my 3 part and some of the additives.

    The Lucas formula is just that; very simple and it will give you sugary tight buds but won't give you massive yields. You need nitrogen in a higher amount to "blow" your flowers up. You can tighten them up more at the end by changing your formula a bit and by lowering your temps and dimming your lights so that ripening happens at a quicker rate. So if you tweak your formula you can get bigger buds then tighten them up more to the end.

    If you went colder 62F and higher humidity of 50% for drying your buds you will find you get even danker smelling buds. Just make sure they don't touch each other or over lap which will encourage mold. The idea is to slow down drying as much as possible while still removing moisture. You will also notice your buds don't shrink near as much as they would if you dried warmer and quicker.

    Some guys have to "sweat" their buds in order to get inner moisture out because they dry the outside way to quicker; leaving the inner flower still moist with stems that don't snap.

    The way I dry I don't ever have to "sweat" or "burp" my buds. In 2 weeks of slow cold rack drying the buds are the dankest they can possibly be. Try it out. You will see :smile:

    It's the Botanicare "Sweet" additive that will give you a boost to the flower smell. We used it in comparison a few times and love it.
     
    DONB likes this.
  13.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    Which feed chart are you referring too? Their Lucas one or their 1/2/3 ratio or? You are right. It is simple to do a pretty productive and high yielding formula if you have great grow conditions, lighting, co2, etc..You can have great nutes and formula but if the grow environment isn't as good then things can change very drastically with yield. Yes a 1/1/1 ratio right to the end with a booster from week 3 of flower to 8 of flower (with a 10 week strain) will give you excellent yields if everything else is good like grow conditions, good starting plant health, etc etc..
    I personally tweak my formula based on how my plants are responding, what strain I'm growing, etc..so my formula can be slightly different from crop to crop BUT if I were to give you a good piece of advice it would be to use a 1/1/1 ratio like I said then tweak it a bit for the last week before you flush by increasing the bloom slightly, reduce the micro slightly, and reduce the grow even a bit more than how much you reduced the micro by. So a 1/2/3 ratio. For that end week before flushing. I flush for a full 2 weeks with a clearing solution. I use Final Phase but other ones work well to like Clearex (Botanicare) etc.
    I grow from clones. They can take a bit more nutes at their root onset than a seed grown plant. I veg for 2 weeks. My feed starts at 400 then up to 800 for 2 weeks of veg. I flip to flower and feed a 1000 ppm flower feed. I flower for 10 weeks. Depending on the strain an average ppm for me is 1000 up to 1600 ppm then flush. I used to do 1000 to 1600 then down to 800 then flush but I found I got better yields by feeding strong right up to my flush stage. I'm in soil though so there is still nute salts in there that can feed the plants a bit as the soil is flushing so it's not like they are getting cut off nutes completely cold turkey. If I were in Hydro I would weaken off my nutes more gradually before the flush.
     
    JohnnySocko likes this.
  14.  
    JohnnySocko

    JohnnySocko Active Member

    I hope others were listening; the time spent on that post is very appreciated.... I did a Lucas grow and it OK...but now I'll try a 1-1-1 for this 4x4 Sativa grow (trainwreck, Green crack, Skunk 11, and Purple haze) and you preemptively answered my question on a ppm sched....
     
  15.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    No problem glad to help
     
  16.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    Ya BC, thanks for taking the time man! much appreciated!

    Just so im clear. say i have 40 gallons in my res. The whole way thru i should go 1/1/1 so 40ml grow 40ml micro and 40mn bloom.

    Once in flower after week 3 start doing 1/2/3 up to week 8, or a week before i would start flushing. I AM in hydro so in the week before the flush mybe cut those nutes in half? then my two weeks of flushing.

    If that's right, when would i want to add the bud booster and the sweet? I have liquid koolbloom and the berry sweet. Do i need dry koolbloom instead?

    Im not totally sold on the Lucas Formula for exactly that reason you explain, they just seem too light in color. I end up just doing lucas and ADDING grow to it during veg.... which... doesn't make it lucas anymore i guess lol..
     
  17.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    No, No I do 1/1/1 right up to where I tweak it the week before I flush. Not 1/2/3 from week 3 on. I veg my clones for 2 weeks, flip them to flower, then flower for just over 10 weeks. OG is a 10 weeker.
    So depending on what strain you are your flowering time may be less.
    Yes when you say 40 ml/40 ml/40 ml that is a 1/1/1 ratio but I don't know what ppm that would equal in your 40 gallon res. You will have to play with the amount of nutes you use to equal what ppm you want to be at.
    Like I was saying I veg from 400 up to 800 ppm then my first feed when I flip to flower is 1000 ppm. I work it up to 1600 for my max ppm before I flush. I do 1/1/1 ratio up to my week 7 then week 8 I do a tweaked ratio that is similar to a 1/2/3 ratio. Then I flush week 9 and 10. But different strains can take different strength in nutes so be careful you don't burn them. It may be safer for you to max out a fair bit less to be on the safe side. If you see the tips of the leaves start to go burnt looking and crisp then flush right away and reduce the ppm strength of your next feed.
    So for boosters I use an additive that triggers the plants to flower a bit quicker than normal. I use Bud Blood but there are other similar products on the market that do this. You can use any of them or you don't have to use it at all. With OG if I don't use a flower ignitor product the plants will take about 14 days to start showing flowers. When I use the additive I start seeing flowers form around day 8-10 usually. Not a huge difference but it does give them a little more time to fatten up in the overall scheme of things. I use it when I flip to flower for 2 feeds, then after that I use the Big Bud booster the whole way through my flower stage right up to when I start to flush.
    Yes being that you are in hydro I would lower that tweaked feed down half way for that week before you flower.

    You should use the sweet right through your flower stage after the buds have started to form from when they are about the size of a dime on.
    Liquid boosters are ok but the powders are purer and just get better results. Maybe use up your liquid one till you run out then get the powder on your next one?
     
  18.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    Ok ya i'll use that up then. So do you think it would be beneficial to my right now flowering ladies that are getting lucas @ 100ppm cal mag (because im using RO water) and 8/16ml per gallon micro/gro (Flora series) and 10ml per gallon sweet (should i go full dose on this? which is i think like 20ml per gallon) which brings us to about 1100 ppm (.5 conversion) could be more by 100 or so id have to look again; to switch over to a 1/1/1 feed? Right now they dont look burnt so i think the strength of ppms is about good. so i could tweak the exact am,ount to be close to that.

    right now, i think today actually is day 1 of week 3. this is pics froma couple days ago
    IMAG1127.jpg IMAG1122.jpg IMAG1119.jpg IMAG1118.jpg IMAG1117.jpg IMAG1113.jpg IMAG1091.jpg

    so at this point, me being in hydro, if you suggest chaging it up, say my target ppm to make it easy is 1000ppm. How high would you go with the base nutes at 1/1/1, so that you can still add your additives to equal out to 1000? And how strong should i mix in liquid kooldbloom and sweet? I figure i would still keep the 100ppm of cal mag to begin with so there is 900ppm left.
     
  19.  
    budtoker0987

    budtoker0987 Active Member

    Would these ppm strengths also "work" with a hydro setup like mine? I know you said your doing soil right? You want different strengths for the different systems of growing right? or is that incorrect? between hydro and soil
     
  20.  
    BCOGYODA

    BCOGYODA Well-Known Member

    Your plants look great. Healthy and happy. Yes they are very early in flower. You would benefit from switching to 1/1/1 now. If you did 8ml/8ml/8ml you should be close to where you are at now with 8/16ml..That is a perfect ppm you are at right now. I've seen hydro grows feeding right up to 2000ppm at peak but I wouldn't recommend that while you are trying to figure out exactly what your strain likes and where the boundaries are with the ppm dosage.
    I suggest slowly building up your feed by only an increase of 50 ppm at a time and see how they react. As soon as you see a sign of nute burn back off 100ppm then you know where you max ppm will be with that strain.
    You don't need to give the sweet at full strength yet. Build up to it until week 4/5 that's where you should be at full strength with it.
    I'm at full dose of my booster by week 5 flower with my 10 week flower strains. If you have a 9 week flower strain build your booster dosage to max out around week 4 flower.
     

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