making a new pannel

Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
Doesnt 2600K, 3000K, 3300K or 7000K make a Statement about that? I dont mean exactly, but within a good margin.
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Yeah, the margin is about as big as their respective "boxes" in the CIE graph I posted. As you can see, a "cold" bin of 3000k (one of the highest lumen outputs of its class within the specified CCT) might very well have a spectrographic analysis that closely resembles the "warmest" 4000k bin (one of the lowest lumen output bins in its class).

speedyganga said:
3000K is the color, it indicates either if he white is Warm or cold; from this you can get an idea of the quantity of red and of blue inside.
2700K has more red than 3000K which has less than 7000K.
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So does chromaticity, it just doesn't portray it quite as well, imo.

speedyganga said:
2700 output less lumens not because it has more red, but because to transform a blue led (cold) into a warm white you loose lot of efficiency in terms of emitted photons.
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Idk how to say this any other way. If Blue=Cold, then Warm=Red, right? So generally, the "Warmer" the LED, the more Red, and the less lumen output.

speedyganga said:
Then if we say XTE 3000K bin T3
it's because when you choose a led, you choose the color and the efficiency. each led has a certain amount of photons it can emits so when they build 3hundred XTE 3000K they have for exemple 100 which are going to emits a few photons and 150 which are emitting lot's a photons etc...
at the end they put it in different "bin".
the better the bin is, the most photons you will get, hence the most efficient will be the led, so the most costly also... ;)
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No, the bin, as it pertains to White LED's, has to do with chromaticity. Check the Cree XT-E binning pdf:
http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXTE_BL

speedyganga said:
The bin are given in function of lumens (led are not for horticultural purpose generally).
Comparing two bin of led with the same spectrum, give you the more efficient because lumens are nothing else than a unity counting photons for human eyes. the more lumens, the more photons and the more efficient (when comparing same spectrum).

If you compare different spectrum with lumen, then it means nothing like JMD said. A blue can have as much lumen then a red... Lumen is how bright does this light appears to human eyes.
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Exactly. So when two XT-E 3000k bins are a different chromaticity (color/CCT/CIE) it's very hard to compare lumens.

Imo, there's no "best" bin, as that's a subjective term, and the bin you purchase ends up dealing heavily with application and personal preference.

For the XT-E 3000k, if money was no object, I'd be looking at any of these:
Q2, Uae7
P4, U9e7
P3, U8e7

Where
U = 90CRI
A, 9, and 8=flux
e7 = Chromaticity kit
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
I did not see it like this, For me when XTE is 3000K it's 3000K and if you get a bin T3 or T2 there is no difference in spectrum but only in quantity of photons...
well I might need to look at you interesting statements :)

But anyway I was more going on the question of lenses... I still don't know what to take. 10/25/30/45/60/90...
no idea.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
So acording to you by the way, it's better to take the lowest bin??? at least for WW because it's more red?!
your logic would be very strange, the contrary than all the growers I know.
or I did not understood again your statement.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
speedyganga said:
So acording to you by the way, it's better to take the lowest bin??? at least for WW because it's more red?!
your logic would be very strange, the contrary than all the growers I know.
or I did not understood again your statement.
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Yeah, pretty much. I built my own 100W remote phosphor Warm White spot light and chose a 90CRI Intematix lens. I chose 90CRI over 80CRI because it had more Red even though it has less lumens.

It's like trying to catch a max stat Pokemon. You can have max health, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have max attack, or max any other stat for that matter. You can have a 93CRI XT-E 3000k, but it doesn't mean you have a high bin Blue chip behind the phosphor...

What some one like me has to ask himself is is it worth going with Warm White for my 600-630nm, or should I just go with a Cool White and supplement with 630nm chips? Is it worth "wasting" all that energy in the Green/Yellow/Orange wavebands? How much of each do I really need? I understand Yellow is overlooked by a lot of people, but I still don't understand how HPS yields are so good. I wonder if Yellow has a larger impact than most (would like to) think.

VanQLED is coming out with an interesting looking multichip panel soon (next few months I hope). Blue chips, Red/Deep Red phosphor, not much Green/Yellow/Orange at all. Looks promising (VERY nice coverage of the Red spectrum from 600-700nm), although there's too much Blue in it at the moment. I'd like to see it more flower oriented.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
What you are saying is interesting, love the way you said we can choose led like pokemon ^^
When I am looking a the spectrum I want, I generally research 10% blue/ 30%green yellow/ 55%red / 5% far red for flowering.
Then I had the option of going with Pink and WW and eventually some red...
or going with red/CW/WW.
So what I am going to do is testing 4 different spectrum I like and see which one is the best...

I am bored to read all this stuff I going to practice, I will take my HPS away and make this led grow some bushes.

The only thing is my actual hesitation for the 1W I am fearing not to have light going deeply enought. (even when I see such grow with astir panel)
and adding lenses on 1W is equal to reducing their efficiency making them as efficient as the 3W. That's why I will try first my 1W without lenses and then with them.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Long ago I intuited that the yellow range was much more important than the R/B PAR followers imagined. Not being techie enough to grow my own, I resorted to buying A19 globes (great for veg) and last grow I added 4 x 4 @ 20w chinese tubes, pretty decent haul- so all are commercial bin engines.

Pics taken yesterday 2 G13 x WW on the far right cracked 31 days ago, the rest are WH x WW cracked 29 days ago. Is it the light? IMHO, it's as much to do with my High Performance Rez and watering system, which is now in full swing, combining flooming + cascading over river rocks + magnets

The pic with 2 plants are WH x that were not getting enough A19, so I moved them under 108w HOT5 combining one Quantum Grow bulb + one UVL Aquasun, which has a lot of yellow. They started making up for lost spectrums/lumens immediately

My biz partner is ordering 2 @ 2x 2 @ 60w3000K panels, made up of hundreds of small wattage engines, quasi-COB. These panels retail for ~ $125. Based on results of 2 grows, mine is like a family sedan version, whereas you guys are exotic car oriented

View attachment 2807924View attachment 2807925
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Speedyganga, I think your first led mix is spot on
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
You know PetFlora I have a better english than average french, I can understand lot of scientific mag and news paper but the casual english is not so easy for me. I don't know all the slang word.

I think you mean is good but I am not sure a hundred percent I never heard this.

I planning to do 4 led mix and compare them in a test:
If you guys wants to help me welcome :)

Here are the one I liked and I think should be interesting to compare "theoretically" before practice:

2WW: 1CW : 1 red I can add a HR but then It will be for end flowering I think.
2 WW : 4 CW : 3 red : 1 HR which is the above one with more blue and HR
2 NW : 1 red from Area
1 CW : 2 NW: 2 red about Apache tech
3WW:2CW: 2 red : 1 HR
All this spectrum are about the same, a bit more blue in the X than in Y but it's very efficient spectrum targeting the chlorophyl spectrum. I need to choose 2 of them only.

Then comes the other one, more "natural" with huge amount of yellow/ green and orange:
2NW 18WW 4 red
2NW 16WW 6 red
Both from Astir, I found it wonderful, and I want to chek either the "efficient" spectrum or "natural one" will do best.

And then "Strange" one but interesting for test:
2WW: 1 PINK : 1 red
and also another one:
9 WW: 1 blue 410-420 : 1 red : 1 HR
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
This basic percentage I like I generally research 10% blue/ 30%green yellow/ 55%red / 5% far red for flowering.


speedyganga said:
You know PetFlora I have a better english than average french, I can understand lot of scientific mag and news paper but the casual english is not so easy for me. I don't know all the slang word.

I think you mean is good but I am not sure a hundred percent I never heard this.

SNIP

\
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PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
speedyganga said:
What you are saying is interesting, love the way you said we can choose led like pokemon ^^
When I am looking a the spectrum I want, I generally research 10% blue/ 30%green yellow/ 55%red / 5% far red for flowering.
Then I had the option of going with Pink and WW and eventually some red...
or going with red/CW/WW.
So what I am going to do is testing 4 different spectrum I like and see which one is the best...

I am bored to read all this stuff I going to practice, I will take my HPS away and make this led grow some bushes.

The only thing is my actual hesitation for the 1W I am fearing not to have light going deeply enought. (even when I see such grow with astir panel)
and adding lenses on 1W is equal to reducing their efficiency making them as efficient as the 3W. That's why I will try first my 1W without lenses and then with them.
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what's your hesitation about brother speedy??? 1watt emitters have proven themselves here with the apache tech v1 and astir grow panels to flower successfully.
And your getting the best efficiency at that 350ma:) I wouldn't add any secondary optics either, still see no benefit with those light loss % so high ! maybe add a few royal blue (450-460nm) leds to keep your girls short and train them if not.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
Yeah maybe a few blue on a dimmer you are right, just in case it stretch too much.

@Petflora yeah this percentage is the key I think then we need to play inside to see the best spectrum but most of them will work, ther is no general best spectrum... each plant is different from others.

So I am going with my 1W and my little 20W panel. :) spectrum will be decided in a few days but when having the leds I can easily change it.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
If you go with 5 rows of 4 you will automatically create a Merkaba shape. Do a search for this magical shape
speedyganga said:
Yeah maybe a few blue on a dimmer you are right, just in case it stretch too much.

@Petflora yeah this percentage is the key I think then we need to play inside to see the best spectrum but most of them will work, ther is no general best spectrum... each plant is different from others.

So I am going with my 1W and my little 20W panel. :) spectrum will be decided in a few days but when having the leds I can easily change it.
Click to expand...
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
Yeah 5rows of 4
but as lot of my spectrums are 5 mixed led, I see it as 4 rows of 5. Don't think It makes lot of difference.

I know this shape, my Maths teacher talk about it once. But I don't see How will I do it on my PCB.
 
JMD

JMD

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
If you go with 5 rows of 4 you will automatically create a Merkaba shape. Do a search for this magical shape
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"Magical shape" - that sounds very.. scientific :) I did a search as you suggested, and I got: http://www.patinkas.co.uk/Merkaba_Feature_Article/merkaba_feature_article.html
Do you have any links that are scientific, and not just a belief in that the shape is magical? :D


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to ridicule what belief you might have (everyone is free to believe exactly what they want), but I'm having a hard time believing in something that can't be proven.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Try Youtube . While some of its' increase in energy can be due to where spectrums are placed, in actuality, even when all engines are the same, the increase will be worth while. One possibility would be to have 6 WW surrounding one 445 in the center

JMD said:
"Magical shape" - that sounds very.. scientific :) I did a search as you suggested, and I got: http://www.patinkas.co.uk/Merkaba_Feature_Article/merkaba_feature_article.html
Do you have any links that are scientific, and not just a belief in that the shape is magical? :D


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to ridicule what belief you might have (everyone is free to believe exactly what they want), but I'm having a hard time believing in something that can't be proven.
Click to expand...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
As long as the rows/columns are 5 x5 you will automatically get Merkaba, but I would still stagger them for max uniform coverage
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
yea sorry i tried, only things Google came up with was like mystical holy esoterical stuff like this "Mer-Ka-Ba means the spirit or energy body surrounded by counter-rotating fields of light, or spirals of energy (as with a strand of DNA), which transport spirit or consciousness from one dimension to another". But thats not why u r suggested that ???
While some of its' increase in energy can be due to where spectrums are placed, in actuality, even when all engines are the same, the increase will be worth while
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oh i missed that. So your saying it spreads the intensity the most compared to any other pattern? I hope i understood that right, im not english.
 
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