My 8hr flowering experiment

completenoobie said:

I really try hard to wait til I finish a thread before posting AND I know this is really old shit as well but I just can't keep my damn mouth shut here.

Dumbass Bob is just trolling or he is dumber than everybody here thinks. He either didn't click on that first pic and zoom in a little or he is fucking blind. I clicked that pic and jesus christ it has a shitload of trichs. Sure it may not be the single frostiest bud pic I have ever seen in my life, but it ranks easily at the top of the list and I have seen a lot of pics like everybody else.

the second pic in message 1227 wasn't clickable so I can't comment on the frost in that one, but the first is frosty AF no doubt about it.

Someone said earlier in this thread that the ignore button saves one's sanity and suggests using it liberally, I would absolutely recommend you and most everybody else ignore dumbBob. Pretty sure I will unless the next post of his I read really shines out above and beyond intelligence with a profound message. I have all the faith in the world that won't happen.

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Thanks for the feedback
I will always give folks the benefit of the doubt and just assume he isn’t a very socially comfortable kinda guy or his intentions aren’t as negative as they come across.
Anything out of the ordinary tends to rub some folks the wrong way if for no other reason then it’s not what they do.
I try not to assume what quality someone else is used to and I’m not one of those people that thinks I’m the best grower or smarter then the next guy.

Again tho I appreciate your input
And flattered anyone would take the time to read my journal.

idk what his problem is but it is extremely clear that he is wrong and just trying to talk shit of some kind for some reason. only a few messages later he lived up to my expectations and for my own sanitys sake, I utilized that button. I wouldn't call it feedback or input as I have nothing to contribute to this thread, I am learning from it. I just pointed out the obvious about a known idiot because I just can't keep my mouth shut sometimes. I believe his intentions are exactly as negative as they come across because it happens time and again. If it was a time or two here and there and he had some positive posts on occasion, I would agree.

On top of that, I have seen a lot of your pics both before and after that, even these last few recently and man they are extremely frosty. Seems there are a shitload of frosty bud pics on this site. I even posted a couple of mine and tho they are not nearly as frosty as most, they are still quite frosty if I do say so myself. I am not good at taking pics, I am still practicing and dialing in getting a good closeup of some buds that will do them justice versus seeing them in person. Plus I can zoom in on a good pic and inspect trichs even easier than trying to scope or loupe on plant and don't have to snip a leaf which is only a small part of the whole picture.

I am no master grower by any stretch of the imagination but love to jack with parameters in everything I do and am intrigued by your system. I hate doing things the same old way they have been done for hundred or thousands of years, I like cutting edge new shit, exploring, being different. I am a little more than half done in this thread and just trying to absorb info to lead me to what I want to try for myself.

Your results and pics say a lot to me and I am striving to do anything I can do at all to get to that level. I have grown on and off for decades and have never grown spectacular shit, mostly due to just growing schwagbagseed. Now that access to quality seeds has become so much easier and I have some supposedly good genetics I can go strain/pheno hunting and work on my grow technique to do the best I can with what I got.

I am not going to come in here and start calling bullshit and until someone has actually tried what you are doing and can prove negative results then they shouldn't either. And unless someone can post a pic of theirs versus "yours" (not yours specifically yours TT, but the general yours) they can't call yours shit or subpar unless it is obvious and tbh the pics you posted he complained about were actually way frostier than he was talking shit about. He was wrong, blind, or just purposefully saying untrue things trying to start shit. Wrong or blind are forgiveable, but when every single post you make is the same shit talking shit stirring lie, you deserve to be blocked or even banned completely from the forum altogether. Hard enough to get along with people when they aren't purposefully flaming and warring. Don't need it.

ttystikk said:

The hard way would be to use an Arduino controller, but it would be the option with the most flexibility.

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well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.

I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.

an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes

completenoobie said:

well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.

I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.

an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes

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There are digital recycle timers on the market that would suffice for the purpose, no programming required. Plug n play. I own one.

I don't disagree with there being timers out there already that do these things at all. I have no knowledge or experience with them. I hate programmable timers, I get too confused too easily trying to set them.

I only disagree that arduino is hard. I can't program but I can write a simple enough sketch to count seconds and turn things on and off, just not based on time or day of the week etc. arduino is way cheaper than what has been stated in this thread. I have spent way less than a hundred bucks and I have over a dozen arduino boards and hundreds of components, sensors, modules, wires, power supplies, and on and on and on. i have a huge tackle box overfilled and not enough room to stick in another resistor and it all was less than $130 for sure, I have so much it won't fit and I have some sitting on top of it.

programming a simple "count to XXX and turn something on" then "count to XXX and turn something off" is super simple and I can't utilize an RTC but simple control is super cheap and easy. Get somebody like @SSGrower to wrtie the sketch and you can have calendar control with inputs and menus and all kinds of fancy shit for $20-30 for one complete board plus whatever the code costs.

There are downsides to not having RTC and calendar control such as every reset the cycle starts from whatever is at the top of the program, so if lights just went out and the power goes out and comes right back on, the arduino resets and if the lights on is the first thing that happens, the lights come right back on. Again @SSGrower apparently already can solve that problem with his knowledge of arduino. I can't but he and others can easily. I just know it can be done and somebody with programming knowledge can do it easily enough.

SSGrower said:

working on the 20 hour day arduino clock and though I am still confident it can be done....it will need to be done by someone who knows how to use a data array. Basically need to set up a calendar for days that are 72000 seconds long, I fell asleep 3 times already today trying to figure it out, I give.

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just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.

completenoobie said:

just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.

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Is it not possible to use a simple motherboard battery to power the RTC.

completenoobie said:

just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.

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If you can set up an array to tell the light when it should be on or off that would be more robust.
tty is completely correct here:

completenoobie said:

well I'm still a bunch of pages from finishing this thread but I respectfully disagree with this statement. Arduino is the easiest and cheapest and most modifiable as far as non 24 hour cycles are concerned. The only thing would be using an RTC module to keep a schedule timed to a calendar.

I could easily program a simple sketch (program) to cycle a number of hours on and off and switch between 3 boards with relays super easy and even add a counter to count days. The only thing I can't do is utilize a RTC to keep a schedule based on a calendar, if it reset, it would just start over. However @SSGrower I think could easily add the code for the RTC, if not there are others here who can.

an arduino and wires and a couple relays and modules off fleabay would be less than $20 or so and the code a few minutes and super easy as far as a counter/timer goes

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completenoobie said:

just as an exxample, using the 72,000 second day, let's assume you want to split the day equally into halves, do the math for any other split. turn on and delay for 36,000 seconds, turn off and delay for 36,000 seconds. No calendar needed for that. Not sure how to resolve the need for a calendar to account for accidental power off type resets as I mentioned before. super simple. any day length can be used.

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The issue here is that the plants really need 10.5 hours or more of uninterrupted darkness in order to flower. Ten hours isn't quite long enough.

If you wanted short days, consider 8 hours on and 12 off.

Something very similar can be fudged with a weekly digital timer; run 9 on and 12 off for 21 hours, you end up with 8 cycles every 7 days.

Lots of ways to skin this cat.

Another one for the digital timer; 11:40 off and 7 on, that's 9 cycles per week.

At some point, someone would have to run these short day cycles against @torontoke's normal cycle with only 8 hours on and see which yields better, which finishes sooner, etc.

ttystikk said:

I know a lot of guys are happy with one zip or gallon of substrate- but I've already done over 5oz/gal.

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define substrate if you would and your opinions or knowledge of the differences between different types, such as the difference between soils, potting mixes, coir and hydroton-like media and those hydro media like rdwc, NFT, aero, etc.

I am curious because I don't use a "substrate" per se unless pure water can be the substrate that nutes are suspended in, I use aero and have used other types including soild, potting mixes, and other hydro styles and I am absolutely convinced from what I have witnessed that aero is the absolute hands down be all to end all of the growing world. I have had 100% success with clones in aero until recently and never had that success with clones in any other medium. I have seen growth rates that far outpace any other medium. I have grown tomatoes that people say they have absolutely never tasted a better tasting tomato in their life. And again, growth rates there have been absolutely insane compared to ground dwelling plants of the same type (cuttings from the same plant).

It can sometimes be hard to manipulate and maneuver buckets but worth the trouble for me. Even easier and cleaner.

If you were forced to pick one medium for the rest of your life, what would it be?

ttystikk said:

The issue here is that the plants really need 10.5 hours or more of uninterrupted darkness in order to flower. Ten hours isn't quite long enough.

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I only used SSGrower's numbers for an example, I bow completely out of the numbers argument/discussion as I am completely ignorant and have learned more here about light schedules than ever before in 25-30 years. I was a diehard 18/6 - 12/12 fan until a few days ago. I have zero knowledge or experience to toss in my $0.02 as far as what supports/prevents flower or veg cycles.

Just giving an example of how to use less than 24 hours as a "day" and how to split it using a simple counter routine.

completenoobie said:

define substrate if you would and your opinions or knowledge of the differences between different types, such as the difference between soils, potting mixes, coir and hydroton-like media and those hydro media like rdwc, NFT, aero, etc.

I am curious because I don't use a "substrate" per se unless pure water can be the substrate that nutes are suspended in, I use aero and have used other types including soild, potting mixes, and other hydro styles and I am absolutely convinced from what I have witnessed that aero is the absolute hands down be all to end all of the growing world. I have had 100% success with clones in aero until recently and never had that success with clones in any other medium. I have seen growth rates that far outpace any other medium. I have grown tomatoes that people say they have absolutely never tasted a better tasting tomato in their life. And again, growth rates there have been absolutely insane compared to ground dwelling plants of the same type (cuttings from the same plant).

It can sometimes be hard to manipulate and maneuver buckets but worth the trouble for me. Even easier and cleaner.

If you were forced to pick one medium for the rest of your life, what would it be?

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Substrate is anything the roots grow in, whether inert or not.

the reason I ask is because I am inclined to doubt the "rootball determines yield" theory. I have tiny miniature root mass sizes and fairly large plants. I have only had one harvest yet with the aero and it was a troubled one (root rot issues) but the current run is huge compared to the last and roots are just not a variable to me. I agree nutrient uptake is an important variable, hence the tiny rootballs supporting large plant mass.

I reiterate my request for your (and other's) opinion on different media and the question about choosing one for life.

torontoke said:

Maybe this topic is a bit like pissing in the wind tho since there isn't a known guideline to check for what works best for every situation.

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very well said

completenoobie said:

very well said

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Hopefully that won’t be the case forever.
With more n more people opening their eyes to marijuana all over the world a lot of the myths and folklore will be proven wrong by tons of testing and research.
One way or the other most of the topics that generate argument will be documented to benefit us all.
As for your question about substrate I’d probably say it depends on grower and product availability.

HotWaterKarl said:

Hey man I read like the first 15 pages of this thread, but damn it is long. Would love to see some pics of buds grown in 8/16 like I believe you have standardized on, but don't want to search through 109 pages! Would you know what page you have those pics on? Also for 8/16 is there any lessons learned, main takeaways etc. especially if applied to hydro (ebb/flow)?

In Ontario we are getting killed, especially in the north I pay over 200$/month only for ~2.2kw extra that my lights use, so this would help me a ton. Also would allow me to grow indoors in some summer months. I read earlier in the beginning of the thread(ish) that you had gotten 75% of the yield except that was on 6/18. Curious what the numbers are now that you have standardized on 8/16. Sorry if this shit has been asked 100 times before in this thread.

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If only I had a nickel for every time I've seen this type of question in this thread and so many others that I have personally taken the time to read from post number one to the very last one. I sure am glad I don't think I am the only person on the planet and everybody always has all the time in the world to spend doing the research and reading that I should do myself.

torontoke said:

I realize it's long. Been mentioned a few times by people but it is what it is.

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only the good best threads ever reach such maturity. do not apologize for something that has contributed so much to this endeavor. Never be ashamed of your work when so many have benefited from it.

torontoke said:

As for your question about substrate I’d probably say it depends on grower and product availability.

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I mean stranded on a deserted island type situation. given the choice to take anything you choose but only one type, like you can't take all the soil, soilless, mix, coco, and assorted hydro mediums to last eternity, but you had to choose a single medium period to work with for the rest of your life. all products are available to place in your one and last shopping cart to last you for eternity and whatever item you choose has a bottomless, endless supply forever. One thing. @ttystikk ? anybody? anybody? Bueller?

mr. childs said:

i put honey on the wounds sometimes...

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wish I had seen this exchange (and the earlier advice of the same content) literally minutes earlier, I just taped up a branch sans honey right before I saw this info