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Mycorrhiza Fungi...why you should get to know them...

Discussion in 'Organics' started by Ohsogreen, Sep 7, 2008.

  1.  
    Pattahabi

    Pattahabi Well-Known Member

  2.  
    cc2012

    cc2012 Well-Known Member

    Good Read OhSoGreen, makes Me glad I picked some this stuff up(in a packet,like) added to my Strawberry Blue when transplanted at the weekend into their final pots...SOOoo it will be interesting to see how these take of? or not...Proofs in tha pudding.

    atb
     
  3.  
    Sagethisplanet

    Sagethisplanet Active Member

    Both is best....l
     
  4.  
    harris hawk

    harris hawk Well-Known Member

    When you work on roots - you are working on flower - that's why you still use up to week 4 of flower
     
  5.  
    Sagethisplanet

    Sagethisplanet Active Member

    Yea till week 4. That's it. So y waste that food when YA already have an established root system??? Does it create bigger foowers, sure the bigger the roots the better however once they are established its about protecting them and not burning your plant with P and K. Turtle always beats the hair
     
  6.  
    Sagethisplanet

    Sagethisplanet Active Member

    Agree. Then stop. Same page,,,,,,, Flower is when there are flowers,,,,,, imo when discussing..... Best of luckluck
     
  7.  
    radicaldank42

    radicaldank42 Well-Known Member

    you want to stay away from products that have trichomderma or how ever its spelt. its an aggressive bacteria that starts to consunme the others and by the time you get it to use it its mostly all trichomdermia or whatever.
     
  8.  
    Rhizonaut

    Rhizonaut Member

    Hey Dankswag, this is some great info. I'm very interested in feeding these microbes from soil contents rather than having them excessively sap root exudates. Molasses and rice seem to come up commonly, and I've used molasses for AACT. My question is, have you ever considered or heard of using rice as part of a soil mix itself?
     
    DonTesla likes this.
  9.  
    DonTesla

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    Hi Rhizo,

    my bro likes to add a cup to every 18Gal
    Myself, I would be tempted to try a bit more maybe see how it goes.
    What seemed to work well too was sprinkling the rice over an amended batch and letting mycelium flourish in dark moist peace.
    I started blending a bit of rice and oatmeal in a nutribullet and sprinkling the flourish powder over.. It leads to a fast fungi-dom frenzy. Whole rice tends to crack and go a bit yellow, no rock, but still works good.

    How bout you Dank
     
  10.  
    Rhizonaut

    Rhizonaut Member

    I'd be tempted to do the same Don. I'd guess a primary reason it's not widely practiced or considered is that people tend to build soils based on what the plant needs rather than the collective needs of the living container... While I'm (fairly certain) plants don't eat rice, I know the microbes can use the grains as sources of concentrated carbohydrates. So, in theory, the plant will be able to conserve energy otherwise expended producing carbohydrate-rich root exudates to feed the microbial life since the carb-rich food is already there for them.
     
    DonTesla likes this.
  11.  
    DonTesla

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    Good point, Rhizo. Though we now know its not the plant we feed, so much, its the microbes and roots we must nurture..
    Still looks like rice and oatmeal and therefore the increased Fungi/Mycelium remain somewhat underused by the newer guys imo. Its not a network to be underestimated though..

    Somewhat similar to how myco increases root mass by 700-1100x, Once mycelium is visible to the naked eye there are 500 strands (aka microtunnels) side by side to make what looks like just one strand.. So a furry layer represents not only an interconnected, far reaching nutrient and water network way beyond the roots, its potentially millions of mini tunnels for Bacteria and other nutrient-containing microbes to safely channel thru, post-mortem, avoiding an otherwise earlier death (via larger predators)..this micro-nutrient retention avoids soil leaching and means better rhizosphere health at the final critical stages right before harvest..
    Never liked furry girls before but,
    That should mean better yields right!? Lol
     
    NaturalFarmer and Abiqua like this.
  12.  
    Rhizonaut

    Rhizonaut Member

    Don, I believe we're on the same page. I believe there's a ted talk on how mushrooms will save the world, but for the time being, I'd just like to grow the chronic. Considering the alleged superhero powers of fungi however, maybe that next level organic growth potential isn't too far out of reach! It will be some time until my next generation for my perpetual, but when the time comes I will try a few different treatments of rice and oats.

    A similar topic I've been thinking on is probiotic rice. Grains containing microbial inoculants which are eaten by soil microbes... I can't help but hypothesize that the more well-fed (quality not quantity) these micro critters are, the more ready willing and able they'll be to kick a few favors to their root friends. Has anyone heard of anything in regard to this type of rice?
     
    DonTesla likes this.
  13.  
    Pattahabi

    Pattahabi Well-Known Member

    Always cracks me up when they say soluble fungi/bacteria. I'm assuming you are referring to a carrier. What species and spore counts do your products contain?

    Wait... $119 a pound? Seriously? :roll:

    P-
     
  14.  
    Rhizonaut

    Rhizonaut Member

    I've had very poor results with the "instant" stuff myself. At a recent indoor growing expo in Denver, I obtained a few samples of 'OG Tea - Veganic Special Sauce' (a no-brew-necessary instant soluble micro inoculant claiming their 'modifications' allowed the spectrum of species to 'colonize the rhizosphere at a constant rate'). I used the solution on four of my adult plants in vegetation and they all withered and essentially died.

    My best results with inoculant additives containing a variety of species have been thanks to Fox Farm's 'Happy Frog All-Purpose 5-5-5'. I've also never noticed any hinderance with Xtreme gardening's 'Mykos' (Glomus intraradices) or 'Azos' (Azospirlium brasilense), though each is a single species (fungus and bacterium respectively), and I can't help but be suspicious of the narrow approach.
     
  15.  
    Pattahabi

    Pattahabi Well-Known Member

    AFAIK fungi are not soluble. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. It's another marketing buzz word. I would never, ever put fox farms anything in my soil, period. However, I use both of those Xtreme gardening products with good results. The mykos is what I use for my mycorrhizae innoculant. I was previously using great white (lots o species) and the Xtreme Mykos blew it away. No comparison. The Azos is also a good product imo, but a little bit goes a long way. I'll often use a little when cloning - more b/c I still have the bag around than anything.

    Lol, Key to Life deleted his post...

    P-
     
  16.  
    Rhizonaut

    Rhizonaut Member

    Yes! I've had a bag of Azos around forever...a roommate left it to me! I mostly dust root balls (lightly) with it during transplants. I agree though about Mykos, I find Glomus intraradices is often the first fungal species listed on any given inoculant variety. So if there is a single-species approach that ultimately benefits your harvest more than the 'shotgun' approach, then I'd bank that'd be the one.

    Yeah, the soluble stuff I tried was only because I'd gotten it for free and was scientifically curious. I'm glad I can confirm others have noticed the same results!

    I am in no way preferential to Fox Farm products. I find their 'Happy Frog' All-Purpose 5-5-5 is a nice go-to nutrient with a nice spread of micro minions, but my allegiance to them ends there! I never use liquid nutrient additives on my soil containers.
     
  17.  
    DonTesla

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    So Xtreme Mycos is the best myco in your opinion, P?

    And Rhizo, probiotic rice sounds, sound.. We should look into a bit further perhaps..
     
    Pattahabi likes this.
  18.  
    Pattahabi

    Pattahabi Well-Known Member

    I don't know about the best. It out performed great white in my garden (anecdotal), and I find it to be a good value ($25 a kilo). I've also heard good things about Bioag's VAM, but I've not tried it. Most mykos are produced by a few companies and then repackaged under all the various names.

    So a long answer short, I've used great white, zho (few samples) and xtreme mykos and I prefer xtreme mykos. ;)

    P-
     
    GreenLogician and DonTesla like this.
  19.  
    Indian Spices

    Indian Spices Member

    @DANKSWAG nice remark to EM

    I use EM in every other watering.. it works well :)

    especially when you use molasses as food for the bacteria! try it out! I think you find several tutorials to make your own EM.

    Another great think is Bokashi Compost! You can nearly compost all organic waste (food/ kitchen waste). After the stuff has composted for about 3 months, you can get it out of your sealed compost can, burry it in your garden and wait another month or two.. after that you may plant your girls at this spot and you will see how happy they are.

    Nice for all people who have not enough space for a good old compost pile in the garden :)
     
    iHearAll and DonTesla like this.
  20.  
    iHearAll

    iHearAll Well-Known Member

    You must be after my heart stranger. I do 1:1 spent coffee grinds and peat moss fermented with EM extended. Then fermented a pail of kitchen garbage with it. Buried it. Waited two weeks and planted a fully established white widow topped and ready for the transplant. That babe yeilded awesome. Sustainable agriculture ftw. Eme is 30ml em1 + 30ml molasses + 1 liter nonchlorinated water in a plastic bottle + 7 days = new bottle of em or better known as eme. Cant extend the extended unless you want only lactobacillus
     
    DonTesla likes this.

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