Need Information on Cal/Mag Deficiencies When Using Led Lights

CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
@sixstring2112 if i cut the cal nitrate in half it would be a ratio of

upload_2017-4-27_10-48-0.png

(and prob half that for the younguns)

jacks has a shitton of mag sulfate in it. and the cal nitrate has a ton of calcium. to the point of where i dont see needing epsom maybe my spreadsheet is wrong tho

FWIW for the macros mel frank recommends 300 N/ 80 P/ 250K/60 Mg
jorge recommends 250 N/ 80 P/ 300K/75 Mg/200Ca


the GH i used to use had a SHITLOAD of micro. i think it was 1.5 G/6 B/ 22.5 ml micro per gallon at full strength (plus 1/2 tsp of epsom salts)

this calcutor turns out different results than my long lost 20 year old spreadsheet (P much lower than i was targeting), but it looks like this (add 60 ppm for epsom and 220 ppm SO4 from the epsom salts):

upload_2017-4-27_11-1-14.png

heres same formula on a different calculator (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm). that grow formula would come out to 1400 ppm (2.8 EC), id end up using it at about 1100-1200 ppm for small girls. see i have the 75% strength listed as well:

upload_2017-4-27_11-27-33.png

but that was back in the T5 days, the lil girls never saw an LED in veg at least
 
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CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
also one other variable ive been using phosphoric acid (H3PO4) for ph balancing i have some granular citric i may whip that into a solution instead so i dont mess with my P. citric is a most excellent chelator of metals as well
 
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M

Micah Metts

New Member
A well balanced nutrient solution that allows for the breakdown of carbs and growth of microbes will never give one these issues.. Spend a few extra dollars on good nutes and avoid a lot of pain and suffering for your plants.. Non chelated elements can be freed up by mytochorhizae and then enabled to be absorbed.. That's the power of a healthy, living soil/soil-ish environment! The complex biochemistry stuff is taken care of by colonies of fungi and bacteria, but only if the added compounds are clean and whole enough to still be quickly recognized and carried as food for the roots..

Remember though, they want something back from your roots in exchange for the work... sugars. One can help take the burden off their growing plants' roots by adding some extra here and there. Nevertheless, a balance will be struck. These microbes help form humic, fulvic and even absorbic acids, among other things, which also hasten the uptake of nutes for the plant..They also help with enzymes, which ultimately allow certain metabolic processes to occure at all.. it's a win, win..
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
theyre now under 3000k 90 and at 24" its a very uniform 500 umol. and leaf temps are upper 70s. as they grow that light is a very uniform 700 umol at 12" so i think they'll be fine. last time this happened the purple curly leaves never recovered so i cut them out and the lower shoots took off great. ill bet in 3 days its a world difference.
 
Los Reefersaurus

Los Reefersaurus

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
@theslipperbandit, I know what PPFD means. That's why I know it's roughly the same now as I had it before with HPS.

I grow in DWC hydro and mycorrhiza do nothing but die in water. So I stopped using them. They are mostly for making extra phosphor available and do nothing for calcium deficiencies anyway. I don't think Myco's are that pricey either. At least if you buy them from the people who make them, instead of from someone who slaps an expensive label on them after buying them from the people who make them.

To add calcium, I dissolve some seaweed calcium product with coccoliths and add that to the DWC water. This is a product supposed to be used in the garden. However since I never had calcium deficiencies before, that was the only calcium supplement I had laying around and it worked great and it costs practically nothing. So I kept using that. Helps with buffering the pH as well.

I don't see any magnesium deficiencies. Only a calcium deficiency (sometimes severe and sometimes hardly visible). So I assume there is already enough magnesium present in the GHE FloraNova nutrients I use.
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Just a hypothosis, if you are running dwc or any other hydro sytem that you are avoiding bacteria and fungus growth , I would consider Calcium chloride, as a source of Cal. It is total water soluable but it is bonded to clorides so it will inhibit your bacterias and fungi . I would really like to know the results of this first hand. After all you can get a gallon of CaCL for 20 bucks as pool supply
 
theslipperbandit

theslipperbandit

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
@theslipperbandit, I know what PPFD means. That's why I know it's roughly the same now as I had it before with HPS.

I grow in DWC hydro and mycorrhiza do nothing but die in water. So I stopped using them. They are mostly for making extra phosphor available and do nothing for calcium deficiencies anyway. I don't think Myco's are that pricey either. At least if you buy them from the people who make them, instead of from someone who slaps an expensive label on them after buying them from the people who make them.

To add calcium, I dissolve some seaweed calcium product with coccoliths and add that to the DWC water. This is a product supposed to be used in the garden. However since I never had calcium deficiencies before, that was the only calcium supplement I had laying around and it worked great and it costs practically nothing. So I kept using that. Helps with buffering the pH as well.

I don't see any magnesium deficiencies. Only a calcium deficiency (sometimes severe and sometimes hardly visible). So I assume there is already enough magnesium present in the GHE FloraNova nutrients I use.
Click to expand...
You do know thwir are different types of mytocorrizal... I use enzo as it binds to the roots doubling the mass it also help absorb minerals in return for carbs


https://www.rollitup.org/t/mycorrhizal-bacteria-a-must-for-any-dwc-system-if-your-roots-have-any-problem-click.327965/ omce thwure rooted add it to ur pebbles and they'll attach to thw roots n help with bacterial indwction and tons of other atuff but ive found endomycorrhizal is the best ectomycorrhizal ia for trees
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
reduced ec, raised lights, added blue light, let em root better into the big cubes. once they got going again ive raised EC up from 1.2 to 1.5-1.6ish

same formula though ive cut back on the cal nitrate by 20% in last few days. also using citric for pHing

400+W of blurple was just too much even at 36" (that fixture isnt dimmable). replaced with ~200-250W of cobs at 18-24". its easy to get excited but sometimes less is more
 
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Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Dimming lowers PPFD(effects photosynthetic rate) as well as total energy(effects metabolism) in the grow area.

When you dim, you provide less over all photons, but maintain the same light/reflection pattern, and capture/incident angles. This shows as lower numbers on the quantum meter. And is ok to compare them 1:1, as all the variables except power were constant.

When you raise the light while maintain full PPF, you don't really lose the energy. You also don't lose the same amount of photons over the crop that is shown on your single spot meter. When the lights are raised, the light pattern is changed as is incident angles. It is impossible to show and compare with out a 3D map showing and recording every bit of light that is received by the canopy from all angles.


As for @CobKits issue...it's that recipe of yours/jorge's. Ratios are off, strengths are off. You should really take a look at commercial greenhouse formulas as well as break down commonly used store bought recipes and see what is actually needed.
 
OLD MOTHER SATIVA

OLD MOTHER SATIVA

Well-Known Member
As for @CobKits issue...it's that recipe of yours/jorge's. Ratios are off, strengths are off. You should really take a look at commercial greenhouse formulas as well as break down commonly used store bought recipes and see what is actually needed.

>thanks for educating us ..[encore une fois]

this a coincidence since

going to be using 4 separate ratios of various ratios of almost no "n"- with the p-k foodgrade greenhouse dry mixable

along with cal nit and mag nit.

and see what the results are

.. had used 300 ppms up until last crop and was talked into 600+..nah..i am going back to under 400

..used glory jug nutes andtheir high ppms decades ago
 
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