New Cree J Series 3030

Greengenes707 said:

Again...this is your argument, not mine. Learn to support your argument.

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It's just as much not my argument as it isn't yours. Also, perhaps you you could try to ask people politely if you don't understand something and need more explanation? Weird notion of course, but some people do this. They don't come in like a pompous ass and demand proof. Weird huh?

Of course we all know that's not the issue at all. You just didn't know what you were talking about and all this posturing and bullshit is because you I made you look like a dumbass calling you out. For anyone with some insight in the matter that 2% would have been enough. Or not even needed. They would just "know" there was clearly not enough of an SPD difference to warrant even bothering a calculation, but then I like to be thorough and put a number on it. So I really went above and beyond already.

All this huffing and puffing really isn't making you look any better though. Just made you look even more desperately lacking knowledge since you so clearly couldn't even understand what I did.

I'll agree that I have been trolling you though. That was pretty much the only thing you were right about. Easy victim and lame perhaps, but especially people like you who always (or most of the time at least) act like a royal ass, deserve some ass handed back now and then.

wietefras said:

It's just as much not my argument as it isn't yours. Also, perhaps you you could try to ask people politely if you don't understand something and need more explanation? Weird notion of course, but some people do this. They don't come in like a pompous ass and demand proof. Weird huh?

Of course we all know that's not the issue at all. You just didn't know what you were talking about and all this posturing and bullshit is because you I made you look like a dumbass calling you out. For anyone with some insight in the matter that 2% would have been enough. Or not even needed. They would just "know" there was clearly not enough of an SPD difference to warrant even bothering a calculation, but then I like to be thorough and put a number on it. So I really went above and beyond already.

All this huffing and puffing really isn't making you look any better though. Just made you look even more desperately lacking knowledge since you so clearly couldn't even understand what I did.

I'll agree that I have been trolling you though. That was pretty much the only thing you were right about. Easy victim and lame perhaps, but especially people like you who always (or most of the time at least) act like a royal ass, deserve some ass handed back now and then.

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Why do you think you have done anything or got me riled up?? Get over your self.
I came here to talk about the cree chip. I have them and boards, and will share the data to compare with to everyone(even your troll ass) when they are done. As well as the new CMA...but that is on topic and not trolling so why would you care.
And in the mean time saw your tiffle with Prawn and called you both out...We already went over this as well as your lack of substance and only trolling.
Anyways, I’m done here till then, so bitch away till I’m back if you choose.

I don't have a lot of time to argue . . . er, debate, today but there are a couple of things that concern me which would be instantly cleared up by you copying and pasting the SPD plot points you used for each diode.

I asked you for this before and I don't think it should be any trouble: just copy and paste the data entry points you used (column B in reference to alesh's excel file) for each wavelength as it appears on the SPD curve of each diode.

A quick glance at your data entry points will tell us all if you have plotted each graph accurately or not to arrive at the figures you have.

Pretty simply, eh?

The reason I am concerned about the validity of your data is this:

wietefras said:

The chart is relative to the peak level being normalized to 1. So it's a completely arbitrary scale anyway.

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In fact, it is not an arbitrary scale - it is a relative scale. The reference point is the peak wavelength (=1.0, or 100%). You cannot change that reference point without changing the entire data of the graph (as I've already pointed out).

Indeed, it bothers me that a person of your stated knowledge does not seem to grasp this, nor place any importance on it when comparing the two graphs. So I'm sure you can understand why I won't be entirely convinced by your numbers until I see how you arrived at them.

Cut and paste - easy peasy.

Prawn Connery said:

Cheers for your help mate. I ended up buying 25x 2' H Series 3000K, as they worked out just a few $ cheaper than the equivalent F Series (8x double or 16x single) but more importantly I can spread the H Series over more U channels to dissipate heat and spread the light. I'll wire them 6p 2s for each board and have bought a couple of HLG-240H-48A drivers to run them. That pretty much replicates my current veg board but with H strips instead of double F strips.

Off to bed and back tomorrow for Round 4

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Yeah, H-Series becomes a bit cheaper since Q-Series is available. I like the H-Series too but got a $ 50 payback deal(26 2ft. F strips) from the Arrow.
Mine will also run 6p2s, but with HLG-150. High energy costs and limited space forces me to make them a little more efficient.
I'm already curious to see what you do with it in the next few month..

Unfortunately, I wasn't ready to buy anything when you sent me that discount code - I was still working out my set-up and was hoping to get some strips off Cutter (which is a bit like pulling teeth!). I tried the Arrow code yesterday, but it obviuosly didn't work. The H series will be a little bit more work to mount than the double-row F Series, but I'm hoping a bit more spread will help me deal with the heat of summer. I don't have the luxury of air-con here, and it gets bloody hot in Australia.

Prawn Connery said:

Unfortunately, I wasn't ready to buy anything when you sent me that discount code - I was still working out my set-up and was hoping to get some strips off Cutter (which is a bit like pulling teeth!). I tried the Arrow code yesterday, but it obviuosly didn't work. The H series will be a little bit more work to mount than the double-row F Series, but I'm hoping a bit more spread will help me deal with the heat of summer. I don't have the luxury of air-con here, and it gets bloody hot in Australia.

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I get the newsletter from Arrow so I will not miss any discounts in the future. The last 10% off action was at the end of October, but there is currently no discount code, unfortunately.
H-series strips mounted on C-channel will work safely even at high temperatures. However, if you operate the H and F series with the same power, the individual LEDs on F strips runs even more efficient and even less total heat is produced. Compare them both at the same wattage. eg. at 12w...
But no matter, H-strips will do a good job, even when driven harder.
Below is a comparison test with EB-series strips(copied from EB thread) with and without heatsink. Even if you calculate 10 ° C higher ambient temperatures, they will stay in a good range, I'm pretty sure.

Got some cree j series right here and damn they are bright.
Do recommend.

goofy81 said:

Got some cree j series right here and damn they are bright.
Do recommend.

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What source ? strips ?

Prawn Connery said:

The reason I am concerned about the validity of your data is this:

In fact, it is not an arbitrary scale - it is a relative scale. The reference point is the peak wavelength (=1.0, or 100%). You cannot change that reference point without changing the entire data of the graph (as I've already pointed out).

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I can keep repeating this over and over I guess, but , I did NOT use the scaled data for the numbers. That was only to show how incredibly similar these SPDs are.

Please try to understand this distinction. If not then stop pretending to understand the matter since you do not.

I didn't say you did. I simply asked for you to copy and paste the data points. It should take you about two clicks.

How hard is that?

Why so reluctant to show us how you calculated that 2%? We've asked you over and over again, but you keep dodging the question.

You gave us a couple of figures but honestly, they could have come from anywhere.

You obviously have the data there - why won't you show anyone?

Not afraid of a little mouse, are you?

Prawn Connery said:

We've asked you over and over again, but you keep dodging the question.

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Not "we", but only you. I already told you to digitize it yourself if you want to verify the correctness of my numbers. Like I already said, whatever I post I will get the "you could have gotten those from anywhere" bullshit. So why would I bother?

Why not harras Randomblame for the SPD data proving the numbers he quoted? Or anyone else who posts numbers like that? You take all those at face value, but I suddenly have to prove that I'm right. With numbers that still prove nothing and take only a few minutes to get yourself.

Just knock it off with this nonsense.

wietefras said:

Like I already said, whatever I post I will get the "you could have gotten those from anywhere" bullshit.

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That simply doesn't make sense.

You have the numbers. You copy and paste the numbers. We look at the numbers and the SPD charts and go: "Oh yeah, those data points coincide with the chart alright."

Or . . .

You don't have the numbers and you've been bullshitting all along because you made a flippant remark about a 2% difference and then quickly had to backpedal and find some way to justify what you said.

Which is what happened, isn't it?

wietefras said:

In this case going by the SPD charts you would be 2 percent off (in favor of the Samsung)

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wietefras said:

At best I can give you the two lumen to par conversion rates. It's 72,9 for the Cree and 71,84 for the Samsung

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See, initially you said it was "2% in favour of the Samsung". But by the time you had made up your figures - after Greengenes (not me) called you on them - it was now 1.5% in favour of the Cree. Or 1.9%. Whatever.

A reasonable person would now be asking: well how come things keep changing? And if he went to all the trouble of posting the end result, why can't he copy and paste a few data points?

Doesn't make sense . . .

And if you want to know why I'm singling out you, Mr wietefras (which is sounding kinda like "Whinefras" in your last post), it's because YOU were the one who came in here kicking sand in people's faces and started the whole argument!

Randomblame appears to be a genuinely nice person who has been nothing but polite and patient with me in my dealings with him. He understands my knowledge of LEDs is rudimentary and that I am on a learning curve having come late to the party.

But that doesn't mean I don't know anything about maths or physics or growing plants. Or argumentative logic, for that matter.

All you have to do is post the data points for all to see, and if everything adds ups, I will STFU and you will have nothing to worry about.

You're always right, after all. You told us that yourself.

apologies on getting strips from us, we have plenty of PCB and Cree were delayed shipping us J Series, we have limited samples in stock of JK but have placed production orders, also for 2000k Nichia. Solskin in redesign as we are moving from 5630 to 3030 as we see more development in this platform. Cree will soon release after initial J series, the Ultimate J range comparable to LM301B. I am currently on the UK until early Dec but did see some working samples of the new Cree XD16,CSP, at Luxlive which we will also offer on the new Solskins on channel 3.
Cheers
Mark

welight said:

apologies on getting strips from us, we have plenty of PCB and Cree were delayed shipping us J Series, we have limited samples in stock of JK but have placed production orders, also for 2000k Nichia. Solskin in redesign as we are moving from 5630 to 3030 as we see more development in this platform. Cree will soon release after initial J series, the Ultimate J range comparable to LM301B. I am currently on the UK until early Dec but did see some working samples of the new Cree XD16,CSP, at Luxlive which we will also offer on the new Solskins on channel 3.
Cheers
Mark

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Please dont f**k about this time i want me some of them boards.

welight said:

apologies on getting strips from us, we have plenty of PCB and Cree were delayed shipping us J Series, we have limited samples in stock of JK but have placed production orders, also for 2000k Nichia. Solskin in redesign as we are moving from 5630 to 3030 as we see more development in this platform. Cree will soon release after initial J series, the Ultimate J range comparable to LM301B. I am currently on the UK until early Dec but did see some working samples of the new Cree XD16,CSP, at Luxlive which we will also offer on the new Solskins on channel 3.
Cheers
Mark

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Unfortunately mate, after numerous (lengthy) phone calls and emails over the space of several weeks (not including my initial contact six weeks ago), I ran out of time and had to go somewhere else.

It's a shame, because as I said to the two guys on the phone, I wanted to give you my money and support a local venture and sponsor. I would have bought the last 10x 3000K Nichia boards that are showing on your website but was informed the website didn't match inventory.

I've got plants growing - they can't wait.

Prawn Connery said:

See, initially you said it was "2% in favour of the Samsung". But by the time you had made up your figures - after Greengenes (not me) called you on them - it was now 1.5% in favour of the Cree. Or 1.9%. Whatever.

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You start with saying that you know nothing and now you are challenging me pretending that you know everything. If you'd actually understand or at least attempt to then you'd be able to figure this out. Just stop with this childish nonsense.

I already explained the difference between those two numbers (all wavelengths vs 400-700). I also explained that I chose to give the 2% figure so I'm always on the right side of whatever people like to choose. I take the least advantageous number for my argument so I'm never wrong.

ps no sense to post a whole barrage with topics you don't understand and blame me for. I will pick only one out of the list anyway.

I will get the ball rolling on the Cree J Series data.

Here it is: Cree J Series Excel File

Abridged version:

Cree J Series 4000K CRI80
LER [lm/W]
336.942461
QER [µmol/J]
4.702732723


See wietefras, it's not that hard

Indeed. Good work

:edit: Never mind, that's clearly the 400-700 figures.
Is that only 400-700 or all wavelengths? "True" PAR is only 400-700, so if you want to compare umol values then you should only fill that part of the Excel sheet and leave the rest on 0.

I personally like to just go for the LER/QER lumen to par conversion factor. So I can simply divide lumen by that factor. I never saw any need for the individual LER and QER values.

I see people calculating efficiency using LER and then use QER to go to umol. Why not just go from lumen to umol directly?

BTW I just tried, but the sheet doesn't care about the scale of the SPD either. Or rather, I just did the 3000K 80 CRI SPD and I forgot to divide the percentages by 100 and it didn't make any difference. Makes sense, because it's all relative anyway. The distribution doesn't change by changing the vertical scale.