Nute Burn? Or lack of Specific Nute?

Main nutrient solution has all the Ca and Mg you need, and if it doesn't it means it's not balanced and throw that nutrient out simple as that, not try to frankenstein a nutrient companies nutrient to compensate. All these commercial growers and LP idiots tellin me omg I go through so much CalMg, I use so much, I need more CalMg. CalMg CalMg CalMg. Never used it and I'm not saying I never had problems, but all problems always solved with just the main nutrient solution, either too much, too llittle, pH off etc. CalMg is SHIT!

Last thing I'd like to add about the CalMg is that this idea to use a Ca/Mg solution was based from many years ago when nutrients were not complete and balanced and they needed it to compensate for the lack of the Ca and Mg. Nowadays things have changed, but people's idea they need CaMg has not. It's freakin useless when using a properly balanced main NPK fertilizer and just causes unneeded problems. Yes I used the word useless.

Johnei said:

Hey satori, what's with you and the CalMag.. LOL!! I've never used it! Never needed to with ANY system or medium in 20years. I dont get it. It aint a cure all. It just makes the herb taste like shit.

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the amount of calmag depends on the amount of calcium in the source water and depends on how much K is in your mix

if your source water contains calcium you may get by without
if your mix is high in K it takes more calcium to achieve a balanced ratio between cations potassium, calcium, magnesium

and partly it depends on your medium, for example soil is more forgiving than aero so maybe in soil or coco you might not need it in some cases because of its buffering

but when I figure out a mix for someone I figure it as if there using RO water
if they end up having calcium in the source water its usually not enough to throw out the ratio

since I have the technaflora nutes open on my page (I have many brands saved) I will use them as an example



using just the base nutes for veg

12mls boost
6mls grow

that mix yields

N 111ppm
P 21ppm
K 132 ppm
Ca 100ppm
magnesium 17ppm

ideally during veg your k:Ca:Mg ratio would be 3:2:1

you can see from the mix above theres already plenty of calcium, actually slightly more than needed but still in the margin of error... but you can also see the magnesium is grossly def

speaking in terms of ideal those numbers would say

K 132
Ca 88
Mg 44

giving a perfect 3:2:1 ratio

so to balance the veg mix we need to add 1tsp Epsom salt which adds 26ppm of magnesium which bumps up the magnesium from 17ppm to 43 ppm

in the end the mix is about 10ppm high in calcium but theres a margin of error +/- so its fine

typically as long as the magnesium is half the calcium your in good shape

now looking at the bloom

8mls boost
4mls bloom
1mls awesome

yields
N80
P31
K120
Ca 68
Mg 9

the ratio in late bloom for the cation between K:Ca:Mg changes to 4:2:1 when the K needs go up
in this case he may be able to do without the calcium from the calmag if theres some small calcium in the source water
but
the iron levels in the base mix dropped of with the reduction in the boost so adding 1mls calmag increases the iron slightly

1mls calmagic adds

5ppm N
3ppm Mg
9ppm Ca
Fe 0.3ppm

which changes the final mix to;
N 85ppm
P 31ppm
K120ppm
Ca 77ppm
Mg 12ppm

then we add the 1/4 tsp Epsom salt to get the magnesium up which adds 25ppm Mg bring the final magnesium number up from 12 to 37ppm

if he then bumps the awesome up in late flower itll boost the p and K and give him the 4:2:1 ratio between K:Ca:Mg

for example final mix in late bloom with extra awesome;

8mls boost
4mls bloom
2mls awesome
1mls calmag
1tsp Epsom salt

N 85ppm
P 44ppm
K 145 ppm
Ca 77 ppm
Mg 37ppm

leaving him with close to a perfect 4:2:1 ratio between +/- between K:Ca:Mg during late bloom


re-cap
so again if I know for sure hes got 9ppm calcium in his source water and maybe some iron then he wouldn't need the calmag

if you can get the ratios for K:Ca:Mg balance +/- youll never have an issue

Johnei said:

Last thing I'd like to add about the CalMg is that this idea to use a Ca/Mg solution was based from many years ago when nutrients were not complete and balanced and they needed it to compensate for the lack of the Ca and Mg. Nowadays things have changed, but people's idea they need CaMg has not. It's freakin useless when using a properly balanced main NPK fertilizer and just causes unneeded problems. Yes I used the word useless.

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the idea behind calmag is to balance your cation

and depending on how hard your source water is

if I got hard water with 20+ppm calcium and my base nutes are slightly heavy on calcium itll throw out the cation

someone else could have soft water with zero calcium

Yes, RO source water. Awesome ppm and ratio's breakdown!

Johnei said:

Last thing I'd like to add about the CalMg is that this idea to use a Ca/Mg solution was based from many years ago when nutrients were not complete and balanced and they needed it to compensate for the lack of the Ca and Mg. Nowadays things have changed, but people's idea they need CaMg has not. It's freakin useless when using a properly balanced main NPK fertilizer and just causes unneeded problems. Yes I used the word useless.

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most of the nutes are still low on calcium and magnesium

the calcium is intended to be low depending on whats in the source water and you use the calmag to get it spot on if the source water doesn't contain calcium

another example would be the general hydroponics 3 part for hard water

its basically the same thing as the reg 3 part but with less calcium in the base mix... in case you got a shit ton of calcium in the source water

You make some good points and you're a profesional in your responses and I respect your opinion so I'm just going to go back to you post with the ratios and read those numbers in detail for a while (stare at them with the bong). When someone starts talkin cations ok I'll listen.

(I'm a GH3part man when not organic, and know how to use the spreadsheet calculator, so maybe this is why.)

Johnei said:

You make some good points and you're a profesional in your responses and I respect your opinion so I'm just going to go back to you post with the ratios and read those numbers in detail for a while (stare at them with the bong). When someone starts talkin cations ok I'll listen.

(I'm a GH3part man when not organic, and know how to use the spreadsheet calculator, so maybe this is why.)

Click to expand...

the gh3part is my all time favorite of the liquid store bought nutes

theres just so many ways it can be mixed that create balance ratios

you can use it with the kool bloom or without either way

while your looking at the numbers

also take note;

there are 2 basic npk ratios used and documented

one is lucas 1:1:2

and the other if im remembering correctly is Hoagland (or it could be Steiner i cant remember) 2:1:3



so the two basic npk ratios again are

1:1:2
or
2:1:3

now let me show you how they look and you can apply them to the cation ratio above

+/- within margin of error.... roughly EC 1.2

1:1:2

65ppm N
65ppm P
130ppm K


2:1:3

90ppm N
45ppm P
135ppm K

then you add the cation for your K:Ca:Mg 3:2:1
so lets use 130ppm K and the 2:1:3 npk ratio (which is what I prefer)

90ppm N
45ppm P
130ppm K
86 ppm Ca
43ppm Mg


if your in bloom and your cation ratio is 3:2:1 or 4:2:1 your likely good...

if the 4:2:1 shows magnesium def then you gotta lower the K (especially in coco where the medium holds K)

if your running a 3:2:1 ratio youll never have an issue

Ya, GH3part is the most tweakable, and you and I are tweakers I can see. It rocks. I have about a 1/4 jug left each of Micro and Bloom, and 3/4 left of Grow part. LOLucas
Thanks for info. I'm still digesting. I am a sponge. Call me SpongeJohn.

90ppm N
45ppm P
130ppm K
86 ppm Ca
43ppm Mg

These are the numbers I used to use, this calculated out on the nute calculator. This was the magic ratio bro.
(Took me a while to understand the nuances to your posts, then you know how it is, it all just clicks and memories return. You're right man, and this is why I personally never needed the CalMg pretty much with this ratio running low and slow always keeping topped up fresh nutes no lacking or buildup etc. it's the golden ratio.

I will say

the reason I prefer the 2;1;3 over the lucas 1;1;2

if you look at the lucas numbers its super low on N .... I don't mind the high P it don't bother me none but the N is so low your plants will yellow premature

as a result peeps will increase the dose to get more N

so what ends up happening is they drive the K way up trying to chase the N

so what happens when the K goes up.... your cation gets kicked out causing magnesium def or calcium issues

so then the grower adds more magnesium and calcium from the super high K as a result of chasing the N

all this drives the total salinity/EC up and creates the consent need to flush and ultimately ending in nute burn mid way thru bloom or severe N def

Ok, so I take it all back about the CalMag!
haha
Satori bitch slapped me back to reality.

With all these different nute lines and source waters... oh yoi yoi

now I pack a bowl of the last Katsu nug I have. and one or two for you. NightNight.