Organic Growing Made Easy & Fox Farms Ocean Forest!

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
For people who are just starting organic gardening, buying a bag of ffof can be much less expensive then the start up costs of building your own soil. How many of us started with ocean forest but have since moved on? The first time I smelled a bag of OF I fell in love with organics and immediately set out to expand upon my understanding of what it was in the soil that made it smell so good. In that regard, I can see the value of keeping this thread open. :)
Except it's not organic? Why would we have non-organic threads in the organic section? Wait, your the one using super thrive and big bloom aren't you?

P-
 

AllenHaze

Well-Known Member
Except it's not organic? Why would we have non-organic threads in the organic section? Wait, your the one using super thrive and big bloom aren't you?

P-
Yes, I've purchased big bloom and super thrive in the past. If you must know, I've only bought them once each over a year ago. You know, you get drawn into the hype. In the context of a perfectly sustained, living soil, FFOF, because of it's not so organic ingredients (in limited ratios) may be an issue - at least until they have been flushed out or broken down. Now, in the context of general organic gardening, ffof with its primarily organic composition would fit better in the "organics" section then in the "hydro" section. I mean if it's 99% "organic" I think we should label it in favor of the majority.
or·gan·ic ôrˈɡanik / adjective
adjective: organic
1. of, relating to, or derived from living matter. JIC we forgot. :peace:
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Yes, I've purchased big bloom and super thrive in the past. If you must know, I've only bought them once each over a year ago. You know, you get drawn into the hype. In the context of a perfectly sustained, living soil, FFOF, because of it's not so organic ingredients (in limited ratios) may be an issue - at least until they have been flushed out or broken down. Now, in the context of general organic gardening, ffof with its primarily organic composition would fit better in the "organics" section then in the "hydro" section. I mean if it's 99% "organic" I think we should label it in favor of the majority.
or·gan·ic ôrˈɡanik / adjective
adjective: organic
1. of, relating to, or derived from living matter. JIC we forgot. :peace:
So, if that 1% is glyphosate, you're ok with that? You can't fix stupid...

Superthrive

When Oregon finally banned Superthrive many of the secret ingredients were identified and it confirmed what many already believed (already knew) that it was basically Naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) which is what got this product banned in the first place, chelated Iron and Vitamin B-1. You can’t hide the smell on this one.

P-
 

TRK

Active Member
I usually add about a tbs of lime per gallon of soil mix, I've never used hi-cal, I use dolomite or something similar to dolomite.... Also, I dont use just ocean forest, I mix it with happy frog in a bag to bag ratio.....I am having a brain fart so I cant figure out the measurements in quarts but I usually add about 6 cups of EWC's to a bag of soil, more is usually not better but with EWC's its not gonna hurt unless you go way overboard..... I think the mix of ocean forest which is coir based and the happy frog which is peat based gives an overall better base than either of them alone..... good job on the perlite as well, definitely need that, again not able to picture the amounts but realize that the more you add the more often you are going to water, you need some but not too much...... rice hulls are a good alternative. Dont go too crazy with the glacial rock dust, I use azomite instead of that and it can easily cause salt build up if you use too much..... I add a 1/2 cup of azomite to a batch of soil that contains 8 bags of soil (supersoil)..... so be careful with that stuff....
Sorry to trouble you Whitey but I was reading up and saw you'd had some personal experience in creating Supersoil / TLO type mixes. So thought I'd run something by you at the risk of being pushy. I recently posted a mix on another thread, which struggled to gain enough attention, and which has since been amended anyway. I reside in Switzerland so obviously all branding such as Roots and FFOF are unavailable to me. Here is the proposed mix:

5 L / 7 LBS
Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at in Switzerland, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)

2.2 L / 5 LBS
Plagron Bat Guano (3-15-4)... Stimulates bio-life.

50 L / 60 LBS
Plagron Mega Worm EWC... (100% castings from Dendrobena Veneta) mixed with Bio-Bizz EWC. Rich in bio-life and stimulates more of it.

110 L / 4.6 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Univeral Earth... Contains no peat, humus from greengoods and bark, coconut fibre, wood fibre, pumice with bio-fert from horn and semolina. pH of substrate 6.3,range 5.9-6.7; EC 1.9-2.0, 20% organic substances

70 L / 2.5 cu.ft.
Peltracom 307 Professional Substrate... VERY EXPENSIVE pH stabilized pure peat and perlite mix. EC 0.0 pH 6.0

10 L / 0.35 cu.ft.
Oekohum Cacao Gold (2.7-0.7-3 with 0.4 Mg)... A pure cacao shell mulch of sorts with much heavier mid-size chips of cacao husk, a waste product from the chocolate industry, and not sure if I can even use it( ie. too salty maybe, IDK)

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Nutritional Humus (0.5-0.25-0.35 with 0.15 Mg) Rich in bio-life.

10 - 30 L / 0.35 - 1 cu.ft.
Hauert Biorga Composted Manure(0.6-0.3-0.6min through 0.9-0.5-0.9max) 10-15% organic substance from cows and horses, 5-10% from plants. Rich in bio-life. AND YES GUYS I KNOW I MIGHT TRANSMORPH INTO A MAD COW IF I USE THIS... Advice anyone?

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Perlite

20 L / 0.7 cu.ft.
Hydroleca / expanded clay, smashed into more irregular bits with a hammer in a bedsheet

0.5 KG / 1.1 LBS
Guano Kalong GKOrganics Palm Ash (0-3-14) Goes a long way to replacing PK13/14, particularly so when made into tea with guano; so says GK Organics, which they obviously would, as they reckon it's a bloom booster when mixed with their guano

200 G / 0.4 LBS
PhytoGreen HumusWP ( humic preparationwith 85% immediately available humic and fulvic acids) Seriously good shit

200 G / 0.4 LBS (Or however much it takes to bring pH to correct-ish levels without going too bananas)
Crystal Top Calolite 30Cal3Mg+Fe ( It's just a very stabilised form of Dolomite with added iron I believe also on the expensive side for what it is but you don't need huge amounts and it is cannabis-specific and locked in a stability matrix to make the effect very fast-acting but long-lasting at the same time.

This will be heavily mixed then impregnated with some AN Piranha and Voodoo Juice I had round the house, along with a tea made from EWC, guano, beer ( I shit you not, the yeast and enzymes apparently crazy good for the beastieherd, but IDK), and sucanat OR mollasses until MOIST then turned heavily again and put to bed for thirty days, or as long as my smaller pots will hold my girls back comfortably but not less than 2-3 weeks. Vic of the BCGA's Super recipe only calls for a 2 week sleep, but again IDK.

Then this'll be layered at half full with a normal bag soil fill-up on the day of transplant.

Am I on the right track dude? I'd think you'd know what you're talking about as obviously you've had some experience with Super-type mixes first hand, and can I be a pain in the ass and just ask you to point out anything dead wrong proportion-wise with the mix? Like, does anything jump right out at you immediately with a voluminous 'WTF!? That's way too hot!' Any guidance you could offer would be greatly appreciated mate, even if it's just a link or two or someone authoritative to discuss my concerns with . My motivations for bothering with all this are discussed at great length in my other recent posts...

Thanks Dude and Thanks Everyone Else In Advance
 

whitey78

Well-Known Member
Sorry to trouble you Whitey but I was reading up and saw you'd had some personal experience in creating Supersoil / TLO type mixes. So thought I'd run something by you at the risk of being pushy. I recently posted a mix on another thread, which struggled to gain enough attention, and which has since been amended anyway. I reside in Switzerland so obviously all branding such as Roots and FFOF are unavailable to me. Here is the proposed mix:

5 L / 7 LBS
Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at in Switzerland, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)

2.2 L / 5 LBS
Plagron Bat Guano (3-15-4)... Stimulates bio-life.

50 L / 60 LBS
Plagron Mega Worm EWC... (100% castings from Dendrobena Veneta) mixed with Bio-Bizz EWC. Rich in bio-life and stimulates more of it.

110 L / 4.6 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Univeral Earth... Contains no peat, humus from greengoods and bark, coconut fibre, wood fibre, pumice with bio-fert from horn and semolina. pH of substrate 6.3,range 5.9-6.7; EC 1.9-2.0, 20% organic substances

70 L / 2.5 cu.ft.
Peltracom 307 Professional Substrate... VERY EXPENSIVE pH stabilized pure peat and perlite mix. EC 0.0 pH 6.0

10 L / 0.35 cu.ft.
Oekohum Cacao Gold (2.7-0.7-3 with 0.4 Mg)... A pure cacao shell mulch of sorts with much heavier mid-size chips of cacao husk, a waste product from the chocolate industry, and not sure if I can even use it( ie. too salty maybe, IDK)

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Oekohum Bio Nutritional Humus (0.5-0.25-0.35 with 0.15 Mg) Rich in bio-life.

10 - 30 L / 0.35 - 1 cu.ft.
Hauert Biorga Composted Manure(0.6-0.3-0.6min through 0.9-0.5-0.9max) 10-15% organic substance from cows and horses, 5-10% from plants. Rich in bio-life. AND YES GUYS I KNOW I MIGHT TRANSMORPH INTO A MAD COW IF I USE THIS... Advice anyone?

50 L / 1.7 cu.ft.
Perlite

20 L / 0.7 cu.ft.
Hydroleca / expanded clay, smashed into more irregular bits with a hammer in a bedsheet

0.5 KG / 1.1 LBS
Guano Kalong GKOrganics Palm Ash (0-3-14) Goes a long way to replacing PK13/14, particularly so when made into tea with guano; so says GK Organics, which they obviously would, as they reckon it's a bloom booster when mixed with their guano

200 G / 0.4 LBS
PhytoGreen HumusWP ( humic preparationwith 85% immediately available humic and fulvic acids) Seriously good shit

200 G / 0.4 LBS (Or however much it takes to bring pH to correct-ish levels without going too bananas)
Crystal Top Calolite 30Cal3Mg+Fe ( It's just a very stabilised form of Dolomite with added iron I believe also on the expensive side for what it is but you don't need huge amounts and it is cannabis-specific and locked in a stability matrix to make the effect very fast-acting but long-lasting at the same time.

This will be heavily mixed then impregnated with some AN Piranha and Voodoo Juice I had round the house, along with a tea made from EWC, guano, beer ( I shit you not, the yeast and enzymes apparently crazy good for the beastieherd, but IDK), and sucanat OR mollasses until MOIST then turned heavily again and put to bed for thirty days, or as long as my smaller pots will hold my girls back comfortably but not less than 2-3 weeks. Vic of the BCGA's Super recipe only calls for a 2 week sleep, but again IDK.

Then this'll be layered at half full with a normal bag soil fill-up on the day of transplant.

Am I on the right track dude? I'd think you'd know what you're talking about as obviously you've had some experience with Super-type mixes first hand, and can I be a pain in the ass and just ask you to point out anything dead wrong proportion-wise with the mix? Like, does anything jump right out at you immediately with a voluminous 'WTF!? That's way too hot!' Any guidance you could offer would be greatly appreciated mate, even if it's just a link or two or someone authoritative to discuss my concerns with . My motivations for bothering with all this are discussed at great length in my other recent posts...

Thanks Dude and Thanks Everyone Else In Advance

Nothing at all jumps out at me and says "noooooo....dont..."... I think you should mix it up as you planned or in a smaller batch... and try it... As long as you cook it/compost it right and make sure the PH of the soil is in check before putting plants in it... you'll be alright... What myself and no one else other than a certified "soil-ologist" which I am not in the least; can say is that its going to work good or not... You sound like you put some effort and educated yourself before purchasing some expensive stuff so try it... If you put an established plant in it and it sizzles.... you know its too hot... If its not enough.... Well lets just say I dont think its going to be too light of a mix... But my only real thought of warning is to watch your N input... You need a slow release N like feather meal and a fast release like blood meal or high N guano.... Blood meal and feather meal is what I use but I understand your situation...

This is a trial and error business.. IF you do find its too hot; add some bagged mix too cool it down.. just make sure you try it on a heavy feeder before cutting it with a bagged mix or coco... Also I try to stay away from peat mixes these days because I recycle my soil and peat is not good for recycling soil...
 

TRK

Active Member
Nothing at all jumps out at me and says "noooooo....dont..."... I think you should mix it up as you planned or in a smaller batch... and try it... As long as you cook it/compost it right and make sure the PH of the soil is in check before putting plants in it... you'll be alright... What myself and no one else other than a certified "soil-ologist" which I am not in the least; can say is that its going to work good or not... You sound like you put some effort and educated yourself before purchasing some expensive stuff so try it... If you put an established plant in it and it sizzles.... you know its too hot... If its not enough.... Well lets just say I dont think its going to be too light of a mix... But my only real thought of warning is to watch your N input... You need a slow release N like feather meal and a fast release like blood meal or high N guano.... Blood meal and feather meal is what I use but I understand your situation...

This is a trial and error business.. IF you do find its too hot; add some bagged mix too cool it down.. just make sure you try it on a heavy feeder before cutting it with a bagged mix or coco... Also I try to stay away from peat mixes these days because I recycle my soil and peat is not good for recycling soil...
Cool mate I went ahead and mixed it today before I got to read your post but thanks so much for getting back to me anyway eh. It was adapted during procedure and ended up looking more like this:

100 L Bio Soil
70 L Peltracom Peat
50 L Humus
40 L Perlite
25 L Plagron EWC
20 L LECA
20 L Composted Manure
5 L (or about 3.2kg) Plagron Supermix
3 L Cacao
2.75 L (or about 1.7kg) Plagron Bat Guano
240 g Calolite

Another 25 - 45 litres of BioBizz EWC will be added tomorrow when it arrives in the post with the other un-added goodies listed in previous post and it will be remixed quickly, then remoistened with a little tea made from some of the HumusWP, EWC, Guano, a touch of citric and some sugar carbs (mollasses or sucanat; depends what I can track down). The Palm Ash will be saved for tea or top dressing, unless you reckon it should just go in too, but the cacao is high on the K side for how much went in, (just not as readily released and more slowly available I reckon). Also with where the mix is now I'll be erring on the side of a tiny tad more caution, cause giving them more nutrition via tea or whatever down the road is far less trouble than having to pull them; which would be just SO fucking stressful for them... Not to mention me. It feels awesome to be teaching myself something new again with the help of the Forumworld and I'm highly excited for the month cook to be up so we can progress and get a feel for this organic lark. Vic's supersoil recipe only calls for two weeks, and looks like a highly similar early base version of the Sub's (NOT saying Sub didn't pioneer it; just saying for the sake of a footnote), but I reckon the longer the better, no?

Thanks so much for your help mate
Nice one
 

HapaHaole

Well-Known Member
Lets say something like that...BUT all the amendments you buy will last for a few grows. Atleast 4-5 grows.
With those amendments you make ACTs, which are basically like making your own bottled nutes.

This is the link to my local shop and what I got and what it cost:

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/organic-gardening-soil-ammendments

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/algamin-kelp-meal-5lb/dp/2714 <-Kelp Meal(last a few grows per bag)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/neptunes-fish/dp/11671 <-Liquid Fish(last a few grows per bottle)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/worm-castings-wiggle-worm-white-30lb/dp/4810 <-EWCs x2(you'll use a lot of these. A bag might last a grow or two)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/hi-cal-lime-fifth-season-pulverized-5-lb/dp/2349
<-Hi Cal Lime(small thing lasts a few grows)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/azomite-micronizer-fifth-season-5-lb/dp/282<-Azomite(small thing lasts a few grows)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/ocean-forest-1-5-cu-ft/dp/3250 <-FFOF(I use x1 1.5cu ft bag per soil mix and have bought 2 bags to date)

http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/rooters-mycorrhizae-1lb/dp/3794 <-Mycos(One thing
lasts a few grows)


http://shop.fifthseasongardening.com/perlite-20-qt/dp/3393<- Perlite(I've bought a couple of these)
_________

Prices of everything I have(soil wise) are there. I get the smallest of everything except soil and earthworm castings. You'll need a good amount of both..
But as far as everything else....Get the smallest quantites and they'll last you a few grows...

Amazon is good for all the things you need too(soil amendment wise).
I had to get my Bat Guano and my rock dust from Amazon, and my green sand and tomato tone from a local nursery.


I also got a small 10 gal fish tank pump to bubble my teas with from Amazon, and called it a day.
Aloha Brah~
I know YOU know how tiring it can be to try and source [all] the amendments I need to make a better soil, so thank you for the links (the first one takes care of all my needs, seriously).
Most places around here are hydro-oriented and couldn't tell you what prilled dolomite is or wtf glacial rock might be used for.
Thanks for the knowledge.
 

HapaHaole

Well-Known Member
fox farm isn't organic. its natural smart. not truly organic.
You know I think it use to be, or it use to have it written on there some place. Just yesterday as I was needing to transplant my babies I noticed the word "Organic" appears no where on the bag.
40+ something billion dollars in annual organic sales... they're gonna put the word Organic ALL over the bag if it were. So... 'ROOTS Organics' it is. Thanks for calling them out.
 

radicaldank42

Well-Known Member
lol youre welcome and that's what I saw but i work at a hydro store as well as a few others most likely and we had smaller bags of the ocean forest that said it was organic and the newer bags just say natural smarts. they just half ass everything. and roots organics is the fucking shit man but i mix in a bag of their coco coir to the bag of potting soil. also roots organics actually has a nutrient line that works!!! but i don't use the veg nor bloom only the additives,
 

jwsantokin

New Member
I am currently setting up a 2x4 tent and trying to decide on which soil to use. I really like the whole ROLS practice, but I just don't have the space to mix and cook. I would like to stay as organic as possible. I plan on running a cover crop and using teas instead of bottled nuts. So which organic bagged soil would you recommend? I'm not opposed to mixing a couple bags together like described above with the coco coir and potting soil, just don't have the space and resources to mix a big batch of my own. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate, thanks!
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
I am currently setting up a 2x4 tent and trying to decide on which soil to use. I really like the whole ROLS practice, but I just don't have the space to mix and cook. I would like to stay as organic as possible. I plan on running a cover crop and using teas instead of bottled nuts. So which organic bagged soil would you recommend? I'm not opposed to mixing a couple bags together like described above with the coco coir and potting soil, just don't have the space and resources to mix a big batch of my own. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate, thanks!
You can mix up 3 cubic ft batches(85L) no sweat in strong box totes.. Then stack em, even stand on em haha. No tarps or pile needed. Just make sure you get at least 100L totes so you can mix. I have almost noo space but 3 different kinds of soil going and a worm farm, pullin it all off. Adding just water could not be more beautiful. With the odd tea you be laughing. In short, GO ORGANIC!! Ten week sativas water only, no sweat with a good living supersoil

@DonPetro has simple recipes, depending on what you got we can help you. Here's a nice simple example of one of our 5 recent recipes..

Thinking of trying a real simple soil mix using what i have on hand focusing on CEC.
Base:
50% coir
25% cattle manure
15% fresh worm castings
10% small nugget perlite
Amendments per cu.ft:
1/2 cup alfalfa meal
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup neem meal
1 cup greensand
1 cup rock phosphate
3 cups zeolite
If anyone is looking for diversity in their mineral arsenal look for a product called EcoTraction. Its 100% natural volcanic zeolite.
 

the aparition

Well-Known Member
I know FFOF is still not "organic" but I still use it and love it. I am having a really good grow mixing FFOF, FFPM, and FFLW with added big & chunky perlite. Recently an article on HighTimes called "Sustainable Sativa" had organic recipes for teas and other stuff and FFOF was recommended as the base soil by an award winning grower.

If it is good enough for an award winner it is good enough for me!

"The eco-friendly growing practices at Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals (profiled in the March 2015 issue of HIGH TIMES) have produced Cannabis Cup-winning marijuana. Learn all-organic recipes for compost teas, extracts and all-natural pest control from Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals’ San Lorenzo Shaman, cultivator of the award-winning Cracker Jack. "
 

TRK

Active Member
I know FFOF is still not "organic" but I still use it and love it. I am having a really good grow mixing FFOF, FFPM, and FFLW with added big & chunky perlite. Recently an article on HighTimes called "Sustainable Sativa" had organic recipes for teas and other stuff and FFOF was recommended as the base soil by an award winning grower.

If it is good enough for an award winner it is good enough for me!

"The eco-friendly growing practices at Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals (profiled in the March 2015 issue of HIGH TIMES) have produced Cannabis Cup-winning marijuana. Learn all-organic recipes for compost teas, extracts and all-natural pest control from Santa Cruz Mountain Naturals’ San Lorenzo Shaman, cultivator of the award-winning Cracker Jack. "
Having said that, Subcool himself says that FFOF is 'known for burning plants and having the wrong ratio of nutrients' he also goes on to say that he feels it would suffice much better if mixed with something like sunshine #4. To be honest I can't state any of this from personal experience because in Europe all these brands simply don't exist. Have heard a LOT of bad shit about FFOF I must say...

Just my two cents...

Nice one...
 

radicaldank42

Well-Known Member
finally someone else!!!!! and I would mix it with a coco coir mix rather then sunshine due to it being to muddy in my opinion. tried it once and killed everythuing. was mad as fuck, lost a good clone of my unknown lemon skunk hybrid. and cracker jack. I have never heard of cracker jack. whats that..
 

the aparition

Well-Known Member
finally someone else!!!!! and I would mix it with a coco coir mix rather then sunshine due to it being to muddy in my opinion. tried it once and killed everythuing. was mad as fuck, lost a good clone of my unknown lemon skunk hybrid. and cracker jack. I have never heard of cracker jack. whats that..
Check out the article on HighTimes; guess Cracker Jack was a big winner in a previous Cannabis Cup.

So far having a great grow with the soil mix mentioned (FFOF, FFPM, & FFLW + dolomite lime, perlite) above and supplementing with AN's Organic line + ProTekt. Maybe use the Iguana Juice every other feed but have been using the other stuff with good results so far; BCBD Girl Scout Cookies and CC Green Crack.
 
Last edited:

Kind Sir

Well-Known Member
I am getting the trio of soils fox farm has..I saw youse after watering it down you let it sit for a month. I wanted to add some stuff to a light soil but is waiting necessary?
 

the aparition

Well-Known Member
I am getting the trio of soils fox farm has..I saw youse after watering it down you let it sit for a month. I wanted to add some stuff to a light soil but is waiting necessary?
I'm not sure but I have noticed my first mix has broke down even further so the longer you can wait the better but I don't think it is necessary.
 

radicaldank42

Well-Known Member
you can actually amend then transplant and you can actually time how long till the nutrients are available and till then just blast them with some heavy worm castings and stuff and itll be fine and then itll also help break the nutrient s down faster.
 
Top