Organic vegetable corollary?

Humanrob · Nov 30, 2015

With industrial mono-crop grown vegetables, there is an obvious issue with mineral depleted soil producing mineral depleted food, and inversely rich living organic soil producing more nutritionally rich foods.

Is there an cannabis corollary? Are there properties of cannabis which are part of the experience of getting high, that are lacking from "factory farmed" pot vs. organically grown pot?

I prefer science, but if none exists I'm open to experience and anecdotal information.

ShLUbY · Nov 30, 2015

as far as from what i've read, you get much better terpene profiles with the amended soils. this is why they tend to be even more aromatic and different in smell with a mineral rich soil. even in the plants i'm growing with vegamatrix right now, i have them in a mineral rich mix (rock dusts, DE, gypsum, OSF) and they are smelling better than they ever have. i have my first batch of living soil i'm about to plant into next week. need to get some more mixed up!

Humanrob · Nov 30, 2015

If I had to guess, I would imagine that organically grown pot is a fuller and healthier plant, and therefore would (somehow?) provide a better experience. Nature is complex but its also for the most tends to balance itself well.

I had been growing indoors in soil, but through ignorance killing my soil with salt-based nutes. The ignorance was masked with good results, until I ran an outdoor in 100% soil/organic amendments (like I do my vegetable garden), and the plants smelled 10x as intense. They were also stickier. They had less colorful hairs in some cases, and some seemed to have less frost/trichomes (same strains ran inside and out). That's what started me thinking.

There is a fork in the road. If organically grown cannabis "tastes better", smokes more smoothly/less harshly, or has any number of aesthetic benefits... that's nice. But the bottom line for most people is in the high (i.e. you'd choose poor tasting pot with a great buzz over sweet smoking pot with a mediocre buzz).

What I don't know is, is the THC as an organic compound identical in chemical fertilized pot and organically grown pot? If no actual studies have been funded to test this, then its up to experienced growers and smokers to figure this out, one hit at a time. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to ask this question or have this thought...

VTMi'kmaq · Nov 30, 2015

new cup comps should include this stuff imvho.
Op what a great change of pace post man thankyou1

calliandra · Nov 30, 2015

While scientific data would be cool to have, given our science-based mindsets, it is a fact that we humans still do not understand how nature works.
One of these mysteries is how plants even take up nutrients. Yes, there are different theories, but we don't really know...
The dominant one is that it's a chemical process (which is used to legitimize the use of fertilizers, how that came to be being a whole story on its own). Then there are those who believe plants actually not only interact with microbial soil life, but actually feed off them - a process the eccentric Danish Herwig Pommeresche describes with nods to many other scientists, amongst them Raoul Heinrich Francé. Here's a 2010 study in English http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912860/
Crazy shit

Oh and talking of crazy shit, there is a farm near Bodensee in the very south of Germany where the main input they give their plants is energy and ashes (as topdress as well as foliars) from an ancient Vedic fire ceremony, called Agnihotra, which is performed daily at sunrise and sunset.
The group has been farming that land for over 25 years - when they bought it, farmers in the surroundings were saying, "well good luck with that, those fields haven't yielded in ages", the fruit trees - too old, barely any produce... and in just one season the apple trees gave up incredible harvests (I forget the numbers, but the guys doing this kept records, solid evidence to back what otherwise could be deemed superstitious nonsense).
I was there, saw and TASTED their incredible veggies (enormous, juicy carrots with a taste so sweet and rounded it was amazing, yum).

So, there are many other levels of existence, of flourishing, that we just barely perceive to exist - a great read is The Secret Life of Plants by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bard which explores different approaches to handling plants (including Agnihotra & Steiner's biodynamic agriculture**) and recent research into the nature of plants, their sensitivity to sound, whether they have ESP... weird in part, yes! but highly interesting, if only to show that there are dimensions we are hardly aware of that add in to whatever observations we make on the purely material level (i.e., which nutes should I add, or which microorganisms should I have in the soil, how much THC, terpenes, CBD...a plant has).

End of the day, the brain acrobatics are great and entertaining, but what we need most, and I mean all of us humans, is to redevelop our intuition and common sense.
What a rant lmao :bigjoint:

**edit: actually those methods are described in their other book, Secrets of the Soil

ShLUbY · Nov 30, 2015

Humanrob said:
If I had to guess, I would imagine that organically grown pot is a fuller and healthier plant, and therefore would (somehow?) provide a better experience. Nature is complex but its also for the most tends to balance itself well.

I had been growing indoors in soil, but through ignorance killing my soil with salt-based nutes. The ignorance was masked with good results, until I ran an outdoor in 100% soil/organic amendments (like I do my vegetable garden), and the plants smelled 10x as intense. They were also stickier. They had less colorful hairs in some cases, and some seemed to have less frost/trichomes (same strains ran inside and out). That's what started me thinking.

There is a fork in the road. If organically grown cannabis "tastes better", smokes more smoothly/less harshly, or has any number of aesthetic benefits... that's nice. But the bottom line for most people is in the high (i.e. you'd choose poor tasting pot with a great buzz over sweet smoking pot with a mediocre buzz).

What I don't know is, is the THC as an organic compound identical in chemical fertilized pot and organically grown pot? If no actual studies have been funded to test this, then its up to experienced growers and smokers to figure this out, one hit at a time. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to ask this question or have this thought...

i would like to assume that the THC molecule is the same. chemistry is a pretty cut and dry thing... especially when it comes to plant manufacturing processes...

if you really want to find out for yourself with real results, do a side by side, and send each result to the lab. yeah it costs money, but they'll tell you what you want to know.

Humanrob · Nov 30, 2015

ShLUbY said:
i would like to assume that the THC molecule is the same. chemistry is a pretty cut and dry thing... especially when it comes to plant manufacturing processes...

if you really want to find out for yourself with real results, do a side by side, and send each result to the lab. yeah it costs money, but they'll tell you what you want to know.

I know what you mean about assuming the THC molecule is the same either way, and that maybe one simply produces more or less than the other. But the more I learn, the more I find out about the interconnected system of things. I don't have any specific examples off the top of my head, but just the way a plant sometimes can't absorb one nutrient in less another is present, and too much of one thing can lock out another -- the absorption of THC into our blood stream may be influenced by other chemicals in the cannabis. So there may be something that an organic soil medium provides for the plant that we are not aware of, that on a molecular level enhances the our absorption of THC...

That's a lot of ifs and maybes. Having read another article recently about how corn/soy based animal farming packs them full of (too much/out of balance) Omega6's instead of (necessary/good) Omega3's, my mind is still working on the idea that the end product starts in the ground and works its way up in ways (as @calliandra mentioned) that we hardly understand.

And yeah, I'm contemplating on my next grow doing a few in coco with commercial nutes, and a few in what will be second generation nurtured soil. Not sure I'll pay the $60 per bud to have both THC tested, but I would sample them out to long time smokers and see what kind of feedback I can get.

ShLUbY · Nov 30, 2015

Humanrob said:
And yeah, I'm contemplating on my next grow doing a few in coco with commercial nutes, and a few in what will be second generation nurtured soil. Not sure I'll pay the $60 per bud to have both THC tested, but I would sample them out to long time smokers and see what kind of feedback I can get.

the money to get the results is the answer you're looking for though. i'm not trying to be rude or offend you, but the lab is far more qualified than "long time smokers" if you want to approach this scientifically. black and white in print lab analysis. then you could hand your samples out to testers and have the results on paper to show them after they reveal to you which sample they preferred... just a thought

i'm doing this sort of thing with a friend of mine. he and i are going to grow the same strain, mine in living soil, and his in coco with jack's nutes. we're going to send them into the lab for analysis and see who's got the better bud

i'm going to try and get them into a place with terpene profiles as well. i'll post my findings when we get the project finished.

Humanrob · Dec 1, 2015

ShLUbY said:
i'm doing this sort of thing with a friend of mine. he and i are going to grow the same strain, mine in living soil, and his in coco with jack's nutes. we're going to send them into the lab for analysis and see who's got the better bud i'm going to try and get them into a place with terpene profiles as well. i'll post my findings when we get the project finished.

That sounds great, but obviously one person growing under one light in one tent (same temps, humidity, trimming/support techniques, etc.) would be better. My current grow is only about a week into flower, so it'll be a while before I have space to do that.

cannakis · Dec 1, 2015

Humanrob said:
With industrial mono-crop grown vegetables, there is an obvious issue with mineral depleted soil producing mineral depleted food, and inversely rich living organic soil producing more nutritionally rich foods.

Is there an cannabis corollary? Are there properties of cannabis which are part of the experience of getting high, that are lacking from "factory farmed" pot vs. organically grown pot?

I prefer science, but if none exists I'm open to experience and anecdotal information.

Anyone have a Brix calculator? Someone should do the Brix reading on Synthetic versus Organic.?!

cannakis · Dec 1, 2015

calliandra said:
While scientific data would be cool to have, given our science-based mindsets, it is a fact that we humans still do not understand how nature works.
One of these mysteries is how plants even take up nutrients. Yes, there are different theories, but we don't really know...
The dominant one is that it's a chemical process (which is used to legitimize the use of fertilizers, how that came to be being a whole story on its own). Then there are those who believe plants actually not only interact with microbial soil life, but actually feed off them - a process the eccentric Danish Herwig Pommeresche describes with nods to many other scientists, amongst them Raoul Heinrich Francé. Here's a 2010 study in English http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912860/
Crazy shit

Oh and talking of crazy shit, there is a farm near Bodensee in the very south of Germany where the main input they give their plants is energy and ashes (as topdress as well as foliars) from an ancient Vedic fire ceremony, called Agnihotra, which is performed daily at sunrise and sunset.
The group has been farming that land for over 25 years - when they bought it, farmers in the surroundings were saying, "well good luck with that, those fields haven't yielded in ages", the fruit trees - too old, barely any produce... and in just one season the apple trees gave up incredible harvests (I forget the numbers, but the guys doing this kept records, solid evidence to back what otherwise could be deemed superstitious nonsense).
I was there, saw and TASTED their incredible veggies (enormous, juicy carrots with a taste so sweet and rounded it was amazing, yum).

So, there are many other levels of existence, of flourishing, that we just barely perceive to exist - a great read is The Secret Life of Plants by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bard which explores different approaches to handling plants (including Agnihotra & Steiner's biodynamic agriculture**) and recent research into the nature of plants, their sensitivity to sound, whether they have ESP... weird in part, yes! but highly interesting, if only to show that there are dimensions we are hardly aware of that add in to whatever observations we make on the purely material level (i.e., which nutes should I add, or which microorganisms should I have in the soil, how much THC, terpenes, CBD...a plant has).

End of the day, the brain acrobatics are great and entertaining, but what we need most, and I mean all of us humans, is to redevelop our intuition and common sense.
What a rant lmao

**edit: actually those methods are described in their other book, Secrets of the Soil

Great information! Thanks!

ShLUbY said:
i would like to assume that the THC molecule is the same. chemistry is a pretty cut and dry thing... especially when it comes to plant manufacturing processes...

if you really want to find out for yourself with real results, do a side by side, and send each result to the lab. yeah it costs money, but they'll tell you what you want to know.

Do the labs identify Brix rating?

ShLUbY · Dec 1, 2015

Humanrob said:
That sounds great, but obviously one person growing under one light in one tent (same temps, humidity, trimming/support techniques, etc.) would be better. My current grow is only about a week into flower, so it'll be a while before I have space to do that.

he's got enough knowledge that i think it's a pretty fair test. we'll see how it goes

Organic vegetable corollary?

Humanrob

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ShLUbY

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Humanrob

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VTMi'kmaq

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calliandra

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ShLUbY

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Humanrob

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