Organics ARE chemicals

malignant said:

get back on topic, and play nice or i will have to close the thread.

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Jesushasdreads said:

Chemistry at work man. us soil guys add things to our compost and soils just the same as a nutrient factory add things to their products to achieve the desired N-P-K micro and macro nutrient ratios. To say that this is any different is ludacris.

The real meat of this thread was meant to discuss whether medical industry claims from various dispensary workers that organics are a safer alternative to synthetically or chemically grown cannabis have any validity to them.

If you look at the total safeness of the entire life of a product from the time it is produced to the time that it is used in your garden until the point that the bud grown with that product reaches the end consumer there are numerous variables that people who have posted in this thread have overlooked. For example one should look at the manufacturing process of a given product. what effects does the production of a specific product have on our environment? All the soil/ organics folks are quick to blame a factory...but the truth is unless you personally collect your own peat, spagum, coco, perlite, vermiculite, compost, bone meal, blood meal, guano, ect..... there has been, at some point, a manufacturing process to bring that product to your garden. It was mined, processed, refined, transported, distributed, and sold again. If you have plastic containers.... you've already compromised your completely organic garden. What about synthetics? Many liquid fertilizers have ingredients that are concentrated or derivative forms of their "organic" counterparts. Does this process make the end result less safe for human consumption? OR are the laboratories and factories who manufacture these products doing more harm to the environtment than their "organic" counterparts? I would like to see a comparison in carbon footprints of these alleged "organic" companies vs chemical fertilizer companies. From supplier to manufacturing to distribution to retail to end user. I would hypothesis that, for the most part, this is just a part of the advertising hype to sell customers on a product that really is no safer or environmetally sound that anything else for the pure fact that it is labeled as organic or green.

Im not trying to bash anybody, but im just saying our "organic" supplies are not just dug from the ground with a shovel and put into a bag and magically appear at your door. The safeness of organics vs. synthetics involves more than the end product. Regardless or taste, potency, harvest amounts, ect is the end product any more harmful to the consumer one way vs. the other.

One last opinion here.....spray on fertilizers, fungicides, and insecticides are where my concern is. For example I dont trust that pyrethrium hasnt been applied to eradicate a spider mite problem in some growers' basements and end result is tainted bud.

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malignant said:

do as you like, aslong as the rules are being minded im happy. when threads runaway or get nasty ie insults thrown around im supposed to get it back on track, or close/delete. im just doing my job, sorry your having a bad day, if you have an issue i hope you can work it out, good luck and thanks for playing.

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Matt Rize said:

yeah if toxic chemical popcorn isn't welcome on the organic v chemical flame thread, then... uh, yeah. jokes lighten the mood. I don't see any insults, neg rep, or reported posts (altho I skimmed most of this thread). Im pretty sure fab and i can play around without either of us getting butt hurt (notice the thousands of posts and many rep bars we each have). we are having fun... until you came and made it all serious up in here. this thread is garbage flaming from inception with the Title and the OP, especially in the organic forum. don't expect it to be taken seriously. Off topic? Really? Any thread with all caps representing yelling, in the title, is a flame thread. DO YOU NOT AGREE? also ARE YOU NOT AMUSED?! (been wanting to yell that) ... every forum needs a joke thread. basically you can let it flame on, or close it. this thread by design is meant to flame the organic forum.

This is the kind of popcorn I grew up with. No one seems to know about this style. "Back to Basics PC17589 Electric Stir-Crazy Popcorn Popper"
http://www.bananzaland.com/back-to-basics-pc17589-electric-stir-crazy-popcorn-popper/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=11%20Sep%202011%2013:24

And if this doesn't get you to chuckle you need more THC... nobody's purrrrrrrrrfect

This argument will never die. Chem growers interpret organic in the chemical sense, missing the meaning of the word as it relates to soil gardening altogether (biology, not chemistry). Its not even semantics. Its intentional ignorance. The real meaning of organic is posted here all over. Anyone with common sense knows that "organic" as it relates to any living organism means a biological soil(less) food web... life feeding plants their wastes.

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malignant said:

get back on topic, and play nice or i will have to close the thread.

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moodster said:

i used to grow 100 percent organic but got shit yields

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stonedmetalhead1 said:

You did it wrong.


still going

This is a pic of an old crop but I harvested around 10 lbs. under 4000W and CO2, all organic.

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poplars said:

yeah seriously, you should see the outdoor organic crops out here... 10 foot plants with 2 foot long buds that are around 4 inches wide.... yeah organic = shit yeild LFMAO.

if anything chemicals = shit yeild because the plant is so stressed it can't show you it's true potential... I've seen many plants grown chemically produce shit bud, that looked good smelled pretty good tasted like shit harsh as fuck.... then you get the organic, INTENSE aromas, VERY smooth smoke, very very nice high...

so yeah its quite simple, people who wanna play around with the chemical ways are far different from the organic growers, we respect the plant, the soil, and the ecosystem. chemical growers do not, and the resulting harvest demonstrates this quite effectively.

so it's cool you guys can try to say organics are just like chemicals, but if it were so, we wouldn't have all been switching for the past 5 or 10 years would we? just sayin'

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doc111 said:

lol! I have not bashed organics in any way, so why do the organic hardcores feel the need to make comments like "chemical growers don't respect the plant, the soil, and the ecosystem"? lol! I give up!

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poplars said:

we seriously don't think there is a way you can truly have a balanced eco-system with chemical grows, it's that simple.

even if you balanced it as best you can, you're still killing some microbes, you're still stressing the plant in some way that may not even be obvious to you.

it doesn't matter if you haven't bashed or not, it's simple, those who still stand by chemical nutrients are standing for a non-natural product that doesn't coincide with the balance of nature. thus the balance of the plant, and the cannabinoids that you will be enjoying, will not be as good as the organic natural way....

I'm not saying chemical growers don't respect the plant... but they certainly don't respect the soil or the ecosystem if they insist they can use chemical nutrients in even slight concentrations to make their plants grow 'better' lol.....

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Nullis said:

One might argue there is no "opinion" as to what organic "truly" is. Just loads of misunderstanding, ignorance and perhaps some over-blown sensationalized marketing (which happens to virtually everything these days). Like Rize said previously, and probably put it best: true organics is about biology and what happens\has been happening in the rhizosphere (and phyllosphere) of plants everywhere on Earth for hundreds of millions of years. In other words true organic is living organic, and a lot of that life you simply cannot see, so many don't know it exists and is so profound or suppose it just isn't that important.

Fact remains that not all prepackaged\bottled 'all natural' nutrients are conducive to living organics. A lot of people think if they grow with 'natural' bottled nutrients as opposed to synthetic ones they are doing 'organics' but they're still ignorant as to the biological aspect, which is HUGE. Still, not all prepackaged natural\organic nutrients are bad... many (like Espoma brand) utilize ingredients that are essentially conducive to recycling organic matter via life: putting natural industry by-products to good use. They have to be primarily of plant\animal origin (although not any animal and not any part of the animal) simply because microbes happen to work off of natural by-products\materials as opposed to lab chemicals and big-pharma's waste. I am sure those big-pharma by-products have a decent use, too, but being applied to agricultural lands where crops are being grown shouldn't be one of them... that just happens to be too profitable a use for them to pass up.

And don't even get me started on sewage sludge, again not technically organic and not even allowed in USDA-cert, but a lot of people go to that extreme thinking it must be because they think hey all natural right? Wrong. When you buy something USDA certified organic you can pretty well rest assured it was grown without the aid of human feces. That certainly can't be said for all produce in your local super-market.

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