ph and soil amnedments

coming from over a decade in hydro switching to soil

new/learning to amend organic soil

I starting out in fox farm ocean forest and easing into amendments on the next round

so I will be amending the once used ocean forest and recharging it for my next cycle

my question;
if the soil im trying to recharge is already within appropriate ph range
should I still be adding a lime/oyster shell to the recharge amendment?

wouldnt the addition of lime or oyster shell push my ph up out of range?

in door grow
source water ph 7.3

im4satori said:

my question;
if the soil im trying to recharge is already within appropriate ph range
should I still be adding a lime/oyster shell to the recharge amendment?

wouldnt the addition of lime or oyster shell push my ph up out of range?

Click to expand...

My understanding of this, and someone like @greasemonkeymann could probably fill you in better than I, is that lime will keep your ph steady at 7. Well, if you were to dump a bunch of vinegar on there it wouldn't, but it is to mainly keep your soil at a neutral ph in normal growing conditions.

Also, the ph isnt as much of a matter in organic soil as it is in hydro. The microbes and bacteria will regulate the ph of your medium, as that is what they have evolved to do. For instance, my water is anywhere from 6 to 8.5+ ph. I have never seen tell tale signs of fucked up ph in my plants. Just avoid chlorinated tap water, and never ph your water with Oh Up or Down for the organic plants, and you should be fine.

It takes a whole lot of lime to move the needle on a ph meter. The idea is to add back just enough to help regulate, not really affect ph. Oyster shell flour only affects the ph in the root zone. Both are very subtle; you would have to add quite a bit to push your mix out of range.
Don't worry about ph too much; just add in small amounts of all your amendments and allow 30 days cooking time every time & you'll never have a ph issue. I always add a handful of each amendment; that's enough to cover the palm of your hand ...the amount you can grab in the bag with your hand without it spilling back out. It's about a cup to a cup & a 1/2. That is to a 60 gal tote about 3/4 full of old broken up root balls. That goes for almost every dry amendment. Except compost...you add up to 50% compost which IMO is more important than anything else you add in.
Don't bother checking runoff you need a good soil ph probe to be accurate but honestly it's not needed in organic soil. As someone already said correctly let the microbes do the work; that's why you need to allow time for them to do so and 30 days is all it takes to begin breaking down whatever you add in..
When you say recharge amendment do you mean Recharge? The stuff in a tube you mix with water?

and if you do have to use chlorinated tap water you can add lemon juice to neutralize the chlorine as well as let the water sit for a few days, i keep about 10 milk jugs constantly full and rotate through them and have never had any issues and you have seen my plants lol

no

not the brand "recharge"

I mean to indicate that im not starting from a personally made potting soil from peat, compost, EWC, perlite (super soil)

im starting out buying fox farm ocean and want to re-use it
so im looking to boost it perhaps more so than it is from the bag in an attempt to make further before requiring chem fert.

obviously ideally I wouldn't need any chem fert but for now im happy to play it safe and get close


so when I add oyster shell or lime im more doing it for the elements first and foremost

im also looking a basalt rock dust and notice it has a good bit of silica

should I be concerned with the potential of the Si pushing ph up?

The dolomite lime will always keep the ph stable as well as add all the calmag you need, but key thing with it is letting it cook in the soil for atleast a month, i mixed all my FFOF and amendment watered it once a week and turned it occasionally for a month, i did decide for future grows i will mix FFOF with Happy Frog as the Happy Frog has the mycos already in it and truthfully may just go straight happy frog and eliminate the FFOF I use the espoma hi cal dolomite lime

right
but what concerns me is the part of the label that's says

add X amount if your soil is 5.0 or whatever

what happens if I add that same X amount to soil that's already ph 7
wouldn't I end up with to much and wouldn't that push my ph out or are microbes going to pull it back down again

im not arguing im just wrapping my head around it

then I go and add basalt rock and the Si also pushes ph up?

I don't want to cook my soil for 4 weeks and test the ph of the soil to find it s too high and then have to cook it again with sulfur powder derived from sulfuric acid to bring it back down

maybe ive just been doing the hydro thing too long and im over complicating it

im4satori said:

right
but what concerns me is the part of the label that's says

add X amount if your soil is 5.0 or whatever

what happens if I add that same X amount to soil that's already ph 7
wouldn't I end up with to much and wouldn't that push my ph out or are microbes going to pull it back down again

im not arguing im just wrapping my head around it

then I go and add basalt rock and the Si also pushes ph up?

I don't want to cook my soil for 4 weeks and test the ph of the soil to find it s too high and then have to cook it again with sulfur powder derived from sulfuric acid to bring it back down

maybe ive just been doing the hydro thing too long and im over complicating it

Click to expand...

Yeah im gonna say your over complicating it, use this mix and i promise it will rock for ya
-4 gallons* Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil
-2 1/2 quarts* Chunky Perlite (soil already has a good bit of perlite in it)
-1 tablespoon* Hi-Cal lime (figured it would be a bit of a PH buffer in addition the FFOF Oyster Shells, but didn't want to go overboard)
-2 quarts* Earth Worm Castings (Provide bacteria and help supplement Nitrogen production for the plants)
-1/4cup* Espoma Tomato Tone 3-4-6 (mainly to provide a little extra N-P-K across the board)
-1/2cup* Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2 (mainly for trace elements)
-1/4cup*Espoma Greensand (mainly for water retention as I added extra perlite).

This^^soil mix I currently have sitting in a 5 gallon grow bag, but I've yet to moisten it, until I can add:
-1 quart Gia Green Glacial Rock Dust.

im4satori said:

no

not the brand "recharge"

I mean to indicate that im not starting from a personally made potting soil from peat, compost, EWC, perlite (super soil)

im starting out buying fox farm ocean and want to re-use it
so im looking to boost it perhaps more so than it is from the bag in an attempt to make further before requiring chem fert.

obviously ideally I wouldn't need any chem fert but for now im happy to play it safe and get close


so when I add oyster shell or lime im more doing it for the elements first and foremost

im also looking a basalt rock dust and notice it has a good bit of silica

should I be concerned with the potential of the Si pushing ph up?

Click to expand...

No ph is almost of no concern at all. All my mix started out as either FFOF or sunshine #4 mix and has been recycled over & over again for years now. Looks nothing like it started as either; much richer now. Super soil is just a marketing term. You don't have to build your own mix. All soil is super once it is very active with microbes and for that you need compost. That's the most important ingredient and the one most overlooked by organic noobs. Dry amendments add back minerals and NPK value but do very little to make your soil active. Fresh worm castings are the shit son. Starting up a worm bin and/or sourcing for worm castings is the best thing you can do right now for your organic grow.
It does take awhile to get your mix to supernatural status so if you want a boost for plants in veg to mid flowering consider using a liquid fish fertilizer like neptunes harvest. Here's a killer AACT recipe:
1-5 gal CLEAN water (NON chlorinated!!!!!)
1 tblspn FF big bloom
1 tblspn neptunes harvest
1-2 cups EWC
1 tsp kelp meal
1 tsp molasses
Bubble 24-48 hrs and serve
Follow this thread if you want to see how I do it with recycled soil:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/dick-does-dank.909077/

heres where I am at the moment

3 cubic ft of soil.... 20 gallons

1/2 gallon rice husk
1/2 gallon EWC
1/2 gallon compost
2 cups kelp meal
2 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups crab meal
2 cup oyster shell
1/4 cup egg shell flour (because I save them)
2 cups gypsum
1.5 cups fishbone meal
1 cup basalt rock dust ???? (not sure on amount)


this is very close to the build a soil re-amendment
except they don't include the rock dust, and they use neem cake
any thoughts on neem cake... should I add it back or is there a better alternative to replace it?

any constructive thoughts are welcome

That looks good other then i see your still tossed on adding the lime lol i would add a little of the espoma tomato tone to it also but that is just me.

the fox farm ocean has rock dust listed on the ingredient

but im thinking it might be on the light side
so I thought an additional amendment might be in order???

tpc_mikey said:

That looks good other then i see your still tossed on adding the lime lol i would add a little of the espoma tomato tone to it also but that is just me.

Click to expand...

dr who said he prefers the oyster shell over the lime

id considered using half oyster and half lime

does the lime have more magnesium in it than oyster shell?

guess your ingredients you kinda made your own tomato tone lol looking at ingredents

not sure have neverr used oyster shell but the espoma is 10% mag

3 cubic ft of soil.... 20 gallons

1/2 gallon rice husk
1/2 gallon EWC
1/2 gallon compost
2 cups kelp meal
2 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups crab meal
1 cup oyster shell
1 cup lime
1/4 cup egg shell flour (because I save them)
2 cups gypsum
1.5 cups fishbone meal
2 cups tomato tone fertilizer
1 cup basalt rock dust ???? (not sure on amount)

don't see mag listed on your bag?

if its derived from magnesium sulfate I have that
but whats the highest source of magnesium in an organic amendment?

or where you referring to the epsoma green sand?