ph and soil amnedments

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
for my outdoor garden I was told it takes a couple months so I should throw it down in the spring

I was also told the powder is quicker than the pellets

but I don't really know

oh ya
I was also told one application is good for several years
Oh yeah, my outdoor gardens are mostly red clay with a CEC of 1,473 (jk), and it took a shit ton of lime to get right. It was also over 3 years before any more was needed and then, only a small amount.

I have both the powder and the pellets, but prefer to use the powder. Might be a bit faster, IDK, but the coverage and distribution works better for me. Pellets win if spreading by hand, outside, on a breezy day. LOL

Wet
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, my outdoor gardens are mostly red clay with a CEC of 1,473 (jk), and it took a shit ton of lime to get right. It was also over 3 years before any more was needed and then, only a small amount.

I have both the powder and the pellets, but prefer to use the powder. Might be a bit faster, IDK, but the coverage and distribution works better for me. Pellets win if spreading by hand, outside, on a breezy day. LOL

Wet
haha, I hear that, I have the hardest most dense clay ever, in fact I dug a hole, and amended the clay with 50/50 compost and added aeration, and planted my comfrey in it, and that comfrey did NOT grow, I've never seen comfrey not grow. (weird that the redwoods seem to like it)
I swear you could plant comfrey in the cracks of sidewalks..
but clay is some gnarly shit, and although it's cec is off the charts it's REALLY hard to use.
granted I wasn't super comprehensive in solving the problem, but I was just shocked that the comfrey didn't go nuts.
it's still alive... but barely, I think the 120 days of fuckin rain may have done it some harm as well.
shit the 120 days of rain seems to have done my mental health some harm as well
this rain is fucking getting old..
hence my overactive participation in this forum, my shop is dead.
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Ya Mon, I don't get it with the trees and this hard clay. Every pine tree I can see out the front window all top 100', Oaks at least 75' tall with bases to match, it's crazy.

For my raised beds, I have heavy duty post hole diggers originally used for setting power poles (the handles are at least 10' long), to get a hole to plant in and use my mix to fill it. Every season, holes in different spots. Eventually I hope to get a decent amount of OM in the beds. It's slow going.

Had to do similar for the comfrey after running into the same situation you did. Pretty much stopped the comfrey in its tracks. THAT was a real WTF deal.

120 days of rain!? Man, I get crazy after a week of overcast. Not sure I'd survive 4 months of rain even with plenty of medication. You're a better man than I. Years of drought and then that? Someone had a real hard on for Ca, seems like.

Be as mellow as you can.

Wet
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
it absolutely is!
I used to use the bejesus out of it
till I read that it almost ALWAYS has arsenic in it...
now I just use dog hair for that
almost identical in NPK and release rate (essentially it's the same thing, hoof and horn meal also)
annnd it just so happens that my dog manufactures it regularly
Dog hair as a nitrogen source? I've got lots of that! You just mix it in, or topdress?
Where did you read that feather meal contains arsenic?
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Dog hair as a nitrogen source? I've got lots of that! You just mix it in, or topdress?
Where did you read that feather meal contains arsenic?
i mix it in when composting, the compost procedure tend to make it break down faster, in soil it'd be useless for probably a good yr or so, but after that it degrades reaaal slow and a consistent source of nitrogen.
I wouldn't topdress with it though, too slow to degrade
I don't recall where i read about the arsenic, let me do some digging on that.
whoa... just looked..
it's allllll over the place.
here's just one link, there are tons of others

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969711014306

here's a copy and paste from the NY times.

It turns out that arsenic has routinely been fed to poultry (and sometimes hogs) because it reduces infections and makes flesh an appetizing shade of pink. There’s no evidence that such low levels of arsenic harm either chickens or the people eating them, but still...

Big Ag doesn’t advertise the chemicals it stuffs into animals, so the scientists conducting these studies figured out a clever way to detect them. Bird feathers, like human fingernails, accumulate chemicals and drugs that an animal is exposed to. So scientists from Johns Hopkins University and Arizona State University examined feather meal — a poultry byproduct made of feathers.

One study, just published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, Environmental Science & Technology, found that feather meal routinely contained a banned class of antibiotics called fluoroquinolones. These antibiotics (such as Cipro), are illegal in poultry production because they can breed antibiotic-resistant “superbugs” that harm humans. Already, antibiotic-resistant infections kill more Americans annually than AIDS, according to the Infectious Diseases Society of America.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Ya Mon, I don't get it with the trees and this hard clay. Every pine tree I can see out the front window all top 100', Oaks at least 75' tall with bases to match, it's crazy.

For my raised beds, I have heavy duty post hole diggers originally used for setting power poles (the handles are at least 10' long), to get a hole to plant in and use my mix to fill it. Every season, holes in different spots. Eventually I hope to get a decent amount of OM in the beds. It's slow going.

Had to do similar for the comfrey after running into the same situation you did. Pretty much stopped the comfrey in its tracks. THAT was a real WTF deal.

120 days of rain!? Man, I get crazy after a week of overcast. Not sure I'd survive 4 months of rain even with plenty of medication. You're a better man than I. Years of drought and then that? Someone had a real hard on for Ca, seems like.

Be as mellow as you can.

Wet
yea, when you see comfrey struggle that's def a WTF moment.
fairly certain that comfrey is the most resilient plant I've ever grown (with respects to philodendrons)
but yea man.. the weather is killing me, we got lke four yrs of rain in 120 days, causing all sorts of chaos, billions of dollars in road damages, amongst a whole lotta things

Off topic sorta.. i planted two comfreys in a field near my shop and they are BUSTING out after the speck of sunshine and rain
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
i mix it in when composting, the compost procedure tend to make it break down faster, in soil it'd be useless for probably a good yr or so, but after that it degrades reaaal slow and a consistent source of nitrogen.
I wouldn't topdress with it though, too slow to degrade
I don't recall where i read about the arsenic, let me do some digging on that.
whoa... just looked..
it's allllll over the place.
here's just one link, there are tons of others

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969711014306

here's a copy and paste from the NY times.

It turns out that arsenic has routinely been fed to poultry (and sometimes hogs) because it reduces infections and makes flesh an appetizing shade of pink. There’s no evidence that such low levels of arsenic harm either chickens or the people eating them, but still...

Big Ag doesn’t advertise the chemicals it stuffs into animals, so the scientists conducting these studies figured out a clever way to detect them. Bird feathers, like human fingernails, accumulate chemicals and drugs that an animal is exposed to. So scientists from Johns Hopkins University and Arizona State University examined feather meal — a poultry byproduct made of feathers.

One study, just published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, Environmental Science & Technology, found that feather meal routinely contained a banned class of antibiotics called fluoroquinolones. These antibiotics (such as Cipro), are illegal in poultry production because they can breed antibiotic-resistant “superbugs” that harm humans. Already, antibiotic-resistant infections kill more Americans annually than AIDS, according to the Infectious Diseases Society of America.
Thanks for the info!
Good thing I haven't used feather meal in soil used for cannabis. I bought a box of down-to-earth feather meal (12-0-0) mostly for my outdoor plants in giant pots. One of them is a big viney thing that is woven into the fence -- and it is always hungry for nitrogen. I top dressed a shitload of feather meal in that pot and it's going crazy!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info!
Good thing I haven't used feather meal in soil used for cannabis. I bought a box of down-to-earth feather meal (12-0-0) mostly for my outdoor plants in giant pots. One of them is a big viney thing that is woven into the fence -- and it is always hungry for nitrogen. I top dressed a shitload of feather meal in that pot and it's going crazy!
oh hell yea, feather meal works nicely
it was a favorite of mine. Yrs ago i used a lot of it in my garden
but doghair is the same thing, it's just keratin.
i mix doghair and grass clipping and/or alfalfa meal together for my "green" input on my layering for the compost.
works awesome, plus like i said, i just so happen to have a lil doghair producing machine as a best friend.
i caution to use it sparingly though. my dog has super short fur so it lends itself well
but if you have a chow or a sheepdog or something i'd go LIGHT on those..
and obviously don't use if you are treating for fleas with the topical treatments
or funky shampoos..
probably safe to say
 
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