PH levels KEEP RISING....how do i stop this?
- Thread starter Delo
- Start date
stickyburke
Well-Known Member
ph level will rise in a healthy hydro setup....have to add ph down...perfectly normal
horribleherk
Well-Known Member
i dont know what setup u made but i did bubbleponic grow & had to lower ph level daily . i would lower it to 6.3 or so & by the next day it would be well over 7.2 or higher close to 8 especialy when plants developed lots of roots & in late vegging the ph. jumps slowed during budding i imagine dwc. would act the same
snutter
Well-Known Member
this is NOT correct.
In a healthy hydro system, the pH should not be "jumping" up each day as you mention. And you most definitely should not have to be adding pH down every day. In fact, you really don't want to have to much pH down in your nutrient solution if possible.
Now, to figure out your problem we need to know a little bit more here:
What type of nutes are you using? What's your ppm?
How far along are your plants?
what type of hydro system did you build?
what is your growing medium? (this is an important question. For example, if you're using rock wool, and running a drip system, then this can cause your pH to rise. The reason it can is because rock wool has a high pH, so dripping through it can cause your nutrient solution's pH to rise).
what type of water are you using (e.g. RO, distilled, tap, etc.)?
This should be a good start. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread and watch for your answers.
-S
PS
I run a DWC hydro system. I use 18 gallon totes, with 12 gallons of nutrient solution. When I mix up a fresh batch of nutes, i of course adjust my pH. This is the ONLY time I need to adjust. In general, it stays right at 5.5 until the next nute change.
which brings me to my other point, someone mentioned a pH of 6.2 for you. That's incorrect as well. That's pH for soil. For hydro you want to stay in the realm of 5.3 to 5.8, no higher no lower...
Mcgician
Well-Known Member
Agreed. In a large situation where many plants are growing in the VEGETATIVE state, provided you don't use any supplements that state that they're pH stabilizers, if the plants are growing healthily, you SHOULD see a slight pH rise. In the flowering phase the situation should be reversed- you should see a slight decrease in pH. I started using Bud Candy during the flowering phase and aside from its carbohydrates it also has pH stabilizers that work to control large swings in pH. If it's really a problem, you may want to check into using something along those lines.
fatman7574
New Member
Plants have different uptakes of nutrients at different time so with a mj formulation nutrient fertilizer containing principlally nitrate nirogen and less than 15% of its total nitrogen as ammonium nitrogen the ph is controlled by the nitrogen form that is atken up by the plants. During time of heavy vegative growth with good lighting the plants roots typically take up nearly all their nitrogen as nitrate. When a plant takes up Nitrate (NO3-) it releases bicarbonate (HCO3-), which increases the pH in thee nutrient reservoir. When the plant takes up Ammonium (NH4+), it releases a proton (H+) to the soil solution. THis increase of protons concentration which thereby decreases the pH of the nutriemt solution. With that large of a pH change it sounds like your experiencing heavy growt (nitrogen uptake) and have adeqaute enough lo ighting tat you are mainly taking up nitrate as your nitrogen. Hydroponic nutrients have very little buffering capacity because the solution is acid to begin with meaning there is a over abundance of H+ protons in the solution. This low pH means the only Alkaline buffers in the nutrients are bicarbarbonates. We can not add magnesium carbonates as a solid as they do not exist in a solid form. The only wat to get pottasium carbonate in th water is to have it form in the water. That means we need dissolved CO2 to form carbonic acid which then becomes a bicarbonate and then either a potatsium carbonate or a magnesium carbonate. Very little CO2 is in water and it is used up quickly in forming bicarbonates, so we can have very little potassium bicarbonate or magnesium carbonate in excess in our water at low a pH below 7.5. We can not add it to the reservoir in excess as we we are limited in what wecan have in the reservoir by the pH we maintain and the amount the water can hold at the low pH. If we add to much it just raise the pH above the desired 5.8 we usually shoot for. So when someone like Uncle Ben tells you to add magnesium bicarbonate or potasium bicarbonate ask them where they buy theirs. Some facts abouthydro just are unfixable. Buffering is pretty much an unfixable problem.
Im using foxfarm GrowBig and TigerBloom for flowering.
as far as PPM. i have no idea, i dont even have the meter. i plan on getting one off ebay soon.
She has bin in the hydro system for about almost 3 weeks.
i built my hydro system out of the black 5gallon bucket with a white lid. (i covered it up with foil all over, even over the hydrotons so no light will get in.)
i drilled little hole on the side where i can put the tube through, and i covered the whole and the tube together with foil.
and for my pump i am using the ones from the hydro store. you can control how much bubbles you want.
for lights...as of right now ive bin using HPS but i just ordered the T5s from ebay.
my grow med. is rockwool. and no drip system. the water comes up half an inch into the net pot.
and for the last question. im using tap water from my bath.
kabona
Active Member
i use tap water (was using distilled... getting r/o in a few weeks).... ph jumps around for the first couple days then stays steady... you dont want water out of your water heater though, apparently through my own research you should not even drink hot water from your faucet because it contains to many contamanents from sitting in your water heater... major one being lead..... put cold tap water only in ... (but dont forget, too cold of water could freak out your plants and might not give you the best results so maybe let it sit till it gets closer to room temp or something)
also you should let your tap water sit for about 12 hours to let some chlorine evaporate before feeding your plants with it
Jonus
Well-Known Member
When roots are small and undeveloped, most water tends to be consumed or evaporated (as in the case with lots of bubblers) than nutrients consumed, resulting in a small daily rise in pH. Once roots are established then the pH should even out. If after roots become established, the pH starts dropping then that means your plants need more feeding or are getting root bound. If at any point after that the pH begins to rise rapidly then you are looking at possible problems. A fast rise in pH could indicated an algae outbreak. Continual rising pH means plant roots may be diseased or some other issue is stressing the plant causing the roots to consume more water than nutrient...similar to the way cats will eat certain types of grass when they are sick rather than the normal cat food.
In that case take time to look over the plants especially the roots in hydro for darkened areas. Pythium or root rot as it is mostly called, is a hydro growers worst nightmare. It is a pathogen that affects roots and also part of the lower stem in young plants. If your plants are infected with pythium the roots will slow in their uptake of both water and nutrient. There are a number of pythium treatments available, better to ask your local hydro store for the best product. Look for one that can be used right through the grow rather than the hydrogen peroxide based products which can do more damage than good if used for a long period of time.
In that case take time to look over the plants especially the roots in hydro for darkened areas. Pythium or root rot as it is mostly called, is a hydro growers worst nightmare. It is a pathogen that affects roots and also part of the lower stem in young plants. If your plants are infected with pythium the roots will slow in their uptake of both water and nutrient. There are a number of pythium treatments available, better to ask your local hydro store for the best product. Look for one that can be used right through the grow rather than the hydrogen peroxide based products which can do more damage than good if used for a long period of time.
Jonus
Well-Known Member
Aside from controlling pH and EC, root condition is one of the primary indicators in hydroponics. Preventing pythium is better than dealing with an infestation of it. Ask your local hydro store for a water conditioner that you can add that is safe for use throughout the grow that will prevent pythium type bacterial outbreaks.
So as golddog asked, how are the roots, are they formed properly, or still spindly and young? Are they white or light in color, or do they have dark slimy patches to them? Is there a slight rotting odor when you lift the lid off? Is there obvious signs of algae in the water? That type of thing...
fatman7574
New Member
Organic nutes are hoorendus to work with in a hydro system. You have warm thenps, huge anounts of bacteria and high DO. What that maens si orgainics in a hydro system is just a sewage treatment plant for a resrvoir. Same conditions , same bacteria, same resulst, Yoou have aerobic (O2 loving) bacteria converting all the putefying partially decomposed organic matter into nirtite, and from nitrite into nitrate. So you have bacteria running the show. Organic fertilzers should be used with organic medias such as soil and coconut fibers not inert hydro unless all the bacterial action has already taken place. However the manafacturers are to cheap to set up aerated tanks for their nutrients so that they can digest the solids and turning all the organic solids so as to be safe for hydro. That and if you use already digested organics in a soil system the organic nitrogen will have already have been converted to nitrate. Nitrate is highly leachable so it will be flushed out of the soil at each watering. So when they sell organic nutrients they are really selling organic nutrients for organic media not hydropooics in inert media. The industry is now called the watering of soil grows with water soluble fertilizers hydro so they can now say all water soluble fertilizers are hydro. The hydo organic formulas however have nutrients that are not all water soluble but just small solids in the water so bacteria have to break them down so the roots can up take them. So in essence when they say it is a hydroponic nutrient they are not being fully honest. As sold it is a nutrient that is maent for organic media. It takes y up to three weeks for the nitrify bateria to conver all the orh ganic solids nitrogen sources into nitrate. Some are up taken as ammonium along the way, but most are converted. You have a sewage soup in your reservoir.
I have no pics now, but ill take some for my next post. dnt have my camera right now."Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead."
How are your roots?
Pics ?
but anyway, the roots look whitish and theres 3 main long strands. there about 3-4inches long.
there other smaller roots are still making there way out of the net pot.
Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
i agree with fatman, get some chem nutes. also, how many plants are in this system? a small rez, with too many plants equals ph swings. EC goes up, pH goes down = Plants require less nutes
EC goes down, pH goes up = Plants require more Nutes
EC Stable & pH drifting up, = Equalibrium = Good thing!
EC goes down, pH goes up = Plants require more Nutes
EC Stable & pH drifting up, = Equalibrium = Good thing!
SIV3L
Well-Known Member
Im going to jump in and say as long as you check roots daily and nothing smells bad or looks slimy the PH will tend to jump around. If you feel you need to lower or raise PH you should do it slowly about 1ml per day. The plants are going to grow how they grow, but making huge changes in PH to try and keep it at a certain point messes up things imho.
Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
agreed siv3l, never chase ph...
so then what do i do? just leave it alone?
fatman7574
New Member
Always adjust pH after each water top of at a minimum. Always top off you water every day. If you can afford it always use a pH controller so the pH never fluctuates beyond 0.05 pH points. pH is an much more important parameter to maintain than nutrient EC. All pH changes effect nutrient availability chemically, EC is only an indication of the amoun of electrical conductivity of the saly ts in the tank. Unless your EC is really low or really high EC really does not effect the plants ability to obtain its nutrient needs near as much as the pH efects that ability. Adding complete nutrients is not a safe way to adjust the pH. Phosphoric acid or Nitric acid for lowering the Ph or and Potassium hydroxide for raising the pH are safe methods.