Potasium / phosphorus in flowering

Dr. Wedacof

Member
Picked up some organic coconut water at the store this evening, been reading its good for the plants.
This stuff is 20 percent potasium and 17 percent phosphorus! Way stronger than the pk 13/14 canna product i have.

Looking for someone who's testes may be larger than my own, someone who's used coconut water.

Only my second grow and im learning volumes just hate to cause a big problem thru ignorance!
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
The pk canna product is definitely not something you need if you're growing organic.

If your soil is properly fertilized the coconut water will you do you more harm than good.

Mix Langbeinite or sulfate of potash into your soil if you have potassium issues. Bone meal or fish bone meal if you're having phosphorus issues. Mix crab shell meal in the soil at the beginning of your run and you'll be set for later in your grow.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
The pk canna product is definitely not something you need if you're growing organic.

If your soil is properly fertilized the coconut water will you do you more harm than good.

Mix Langbeinite or sulfate of potash into your soil if you have potassium issues. Bone meal or fish bone meal if you're having phosphorus issues. Mix crab shell meal in the soil at the beginning of your run and you'll be set for later in your grow.
I know how much experience you have over me, so I hope you know that this isn't me trying to be an asshole but genuinely asking questions to gain more information. Can I ask why it is you think coco water does more harm than good though? Even with a balanced soil, coconut water has been absolutely game changing for me. I run CO2 indoors, so I need all the magnesium and potassium I can get and Coconunt water happens to have both as well as some calcium. Not only that, but coconut water of course has cytokins in it.. I always thought that was a gimmick but with the results I got from using cocount water on my last grow has me always using it. In fact, my last grow journal I even had people asking me what my "secret" was for having such tight indernode spacing in conjunction with the growth I was experiencing.

Again, I'm not trying to be an asshole here in the slightest. I just know you have more experience than myself and I'm genuinley curious to have you elaborate further on your thoughts concerning coconut water. Coconut water has been absolutely game changing for me and is something I implement at least once a week in all of my plants, not just cannabis.

Maybe it's just something that works for me because I'm running CO2 and it would cause me problems if I used it outdoors? The node spacing I get when I use coconut water is just stupid, and it's been game changing for me.. but what you've said has me kind of questioning myself now because maybe only the coconut water works because of how imbalanced my soil is? I'm running CCs mix though and have been having impressive results with it, so while I'm somewhat doubtful I also respect your opinion and expertise and would love to hear you elaborate.

Regards.
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
I know how much experience you have over me, so I hope you know that this isn't me trying to be an asshole but genuinely asking questions to gain more information. Can I ask why it is you think coco water does more harm than good though? Even with a balanced soil, coconut water has been absolutely game changing for me. I run CO2 indoors, so I need all the magnesium and potassium I can get and Coconunt water happens to have both as well as some calcium. Not only that, but coconut water of course has cytokins in it.. I always thought that was a gimmick but with the results I got from using cocount water on my last grow has me always using it. In fact, my last grow journal I even had people asking me what my "secret" was for having such tight indernode spacing in conjunction with the growth I was experiencing.

Again, I'm not trying to be an asshole here in the slightest. I just know you have more experience than myself and I'm genuinley curious to have you elaborate further on your thoughts concerning coconut water. Coconut water has been absolutely game changing for me and is something I implement at least once a week in all of my plants, not just cannabis.

Maybe it's just something that works for me because I'm running CO2 and it would cause me problems if I used it outdoors? The node spacing I get when I use coconut water is just stupid, and it's been game changing for me.. but what you've said has me kind of questioning myself now because maybe only the coconut water works because of how imbalanced my soil is? I'm running CCs mix though and have been having impressive results with it, so while I'm somewhat doubtful I also respect your opinion and expertise and would love to hear you elaborate.

Regards.
We're all equals here friend! I'm not positive on the pot size that you're using but I can tell you from my experience and what I've seen potassium is the nutrient that is hardest to make plant accessible and magnesium is the one people are always having to supplement in containers.

Now, your soil could have enough to make the plant do what it needs at a minimum to look healthy, but not be getting the extra push to do better production. So the coconut water probably is helping you. Especially since you're already pushing production levels with the co2, your plants could use the extra fertilizer i would imagine.

Now if your soil already had adequate levels of potash and magnesium then adding the surplus could lead to nutrient lockout and toxicity symptoms. Granted, i think you would have to push pretty hard.

I will say, using coconut water to supplement fertilizers is not an efficient or economic way to go. Mineral fertilizers like langbeinite will give you more than enough potassium and magnesium in your soil and is much much cheaper than supplementing with coconut water.
 
Last edited:

kratos015

Well-Known Member
We're all equals here friend! I'm not positive on the pot size that you're using but I can tell you from my experience and what I've seen potassium is the nutrient that is hardest to make plant accessible and magnesium is the one people are always having to supplement in containers.

Now, your soil could have enough to make the plant do what it needs at a minimum to look healthy, but not be getting the extra push to do better production. So the coconut water probably is helping you. Especially since you're already pushing production levels with the co2, your plants could use the extra fertilizer i would imagine.

Now if your soil already had adequate levels of potash and magnesium then adding the surplus could lead to nutrient lockout and toxicity symptoms. Granted, i think you would have to push pretty hard.

I will say, using coconut water to supplement fertilizers is not an efficient or economic way to go. Mineral fertilizers like langbeinite will give you more than enough potassium and magnesium in your soil and is much much cheaper than supplementing with coconut water.
Ohh ok I totally see where you're coming from now, I had completely misunderstood. My thinking was you were arguing against using coco water as a whole but you were just pointing out how ridiculously uneconomical it is.. which is way true. I pretty much only use coconut water because it's like a SST with the enzymes it has, also because of the cytokins it has in it. The cal/mag in it is something I've always just seen as an added bonus, but definitely not enough for a solid feeding schedule for sure. I first started using the stuff during my last grow and the results I got from it were incredible, although I'd like to do a side by side to make sure it wasn't a placebo effect or anything silly. I had so many people commenting on "how did you get your node spacings so close together?" or how my growth rates were so amazing, and this was before I even used CO2.

I've been using CCs recipe, which is an awesome recipe, but something I've been realized (that he himself actually confirmed in an interview) is that unless I have "his" EWC or even EWC of a similar quality than his mix won't ever be 100% without the EWC. I've noticed he doesn't use Langbeinite and likely gets everything he needs from his castings and minerals. I'll actually be grabbing some Langbeinite for my next grows because my girls have just been going crazy with the amount of K/Mg they're using and it totally caught me off guard. It's to the point where I have to foliar with ProTekt and Epsom salts to give them what they need because my soil just doesn't seem to have enough for them at this point!

Thank you for taking the time to clarify that for me though RastaRoy! I will always recommend people use coconut water simply for the benefits it has in terms of enzymes and cytokins, but there is just no possible way you could effectively use it as a stand alone fertilizer for sure! That would get expensive right quick and not to mention superfluous.
 

Dr. Wedacof

Member
Thanks guys, my original concern is the strength of the p/k in the coco water and ill elaborate on that.
Theres a number of ways to bump up production and im interested in co2 but till i move out of a smallish tent it aint happening.

What i am doing is using willard plant cataylst at every watering. Used this stuff 30 years ago in the garden with great results so when i started in with weed it seemed logical.
Following the Biocanna instructions to the T my ppm is always over 2500! The plants look great, no burn. Been using it since germination. When i add canna pk 13/14 ppm went to 3900!!! Then i got nerveous and used plain water once and everything still looks great but im still nervous. Im currently at week 6 of flower and wanting to continue adding pk for a couple waterings so when i see the much higher pk ratio in coco water i had to ask.

Theres a great thread on the 420 magazine site (dr. Willards plant cataylst) written by John Willard explaining how the process works and i cant argue with the results im seeing. Scroll thru the usual nasayers stuff till you get down to Johns submission.

Its just that being so new at this i know theres a ragged edge out there somewhere and i dont want to stumble over it . I used the coco water at 1 1/2 tsp per 3 gallon last night, leaving the canna pk on the shelf. Your right its not very organic. Ill continue with the coco a couple more waterings and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.
 
Last edited:

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Ohh ok I totally see where you're coming from now, I had completely misunderstood. My thinking was you were arguing against using coco water as a whole but you were just pointing out how ridiculously uneconomical it is.. which is way true. I pretty much only use coconut water because it's like a SST with the enzymes it has, also because of the cytokins it has in it. The cal/mag in it is something I've always just seen as an added bonus, but definitely not enough for a solid feeding schedule for sure. I first started using the stuff during my last grow and the results I got from it were incredible, although I'd like to do a side by side to make sure it wasn't a placebo effect or anything silly. I had so many people commenting on "how did you get your node spacings so close together?" or how my growth rates were so amazing, and this was before I even used CO2.

I've been using CCs recipe, which is an awesome recipe, but something I've been realized (that he himself actually confirmed in an interview) is that unless I have "his" EWC or even EWC of a similar quality than his mix won't ever be 100% without the EWC. I've noticed he doesn't use Langbeinite and likely gets everything he needs from his castings and minerals. I'll actually be grabbing some Langbeinite for my next grows because my girls have just been going crazy with the amount of K/Mg they're using and it totally caught me off guard. It's to the point where I have to foliar with ProTekt and Epsom salts to give them what they need because my soil just doesn't seem to have enough for them at this point!

Thank you for taking the time to clarify that for me though RastaRoy! I will always recommend people use coconut water simply for the benefits it has in terms of enzymes and cytokins, but there is just no possible way you could effectively use it as a stand alone fertilizer for sure! That would get expensive right quick and not to mention superfluous.
That compost thing is definitely the truth, of all the organic farms I've visited, the ones with the best compost are the ones that lace their piles with bone meal and some potassium fertilizer, whether it be sulfate of potash or langbeinite or some other form of it. On my tests my compost always has adequate levels of N, P, K, and micronutrients for plant growths. but when it came to grow time through trial and error I found my best crops were the ones where I used additional fertilizers for potassium, magnesium, and phosphorus.

And cytokines definitely have demonstrated their worth in university studies

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11738-014-1662-1

I would look into getting some moringa powder, it seems like it has better economical potential as long as you could get a good bulk source. I did a quick search and found some people selling it for human consumption benefits but you could use it for your plants too, I didn't take a look at the prices though.
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
So, the original poster fades into oblivion as two lost souls connect and live happily ever after, guess ill figure it out the hard way!
lol I'm sorry friend you started talk about ppms and 420 magazines and kinda lost me! Neither of those things have much place in the world of organic gardening and I didn't want to get negative! My bad for taking your thread a little off topic. Holler if you ever want some soil advice so you can skip checking ppms and worrying about adding liquid ferts and supplements.
 
Top