questions about autos

I have a lowryder 2 new cross and i am sitting at 28 days from seed and she is showing preflowers on just one node, no hairs but i can tell she is a female. Is this normal or should she be showing allot more by now? this is my first run with autos so i am not to experienced with them. The reason i am asking is because my first male showed its sex at day 17 and now it is at day 28 and there really isent to much change with it.
they are in
3 gallon pots
ffof soil
ph is 6.4 to 6.8
watered with only distilled water and 1/4 tsp of molasses no nutes yet
is a cfl grow but i have over 30 26 watt cfl's
temps are perfect sitting at 72- 78
they are very healthy and bushy
 
i know they are doing something cause they have been really stretching like its about to flower i just thought i would be seeing a bit more action from the nodes by now
 

hoss12781

Well-Known Member
you may want to look into upgrading your lighting, especially if they are stretching. IMO that isn't enough light to grow two plants effectively. Adding more wattage will let you get max yield.
 

brettsog

Well-Known Member
i know they are doing something cause they have been really stretching like its about to flower i just thought i would be seeing a bit more action from the nodes by now
keep the lights within 2-3" of the plants at all times. any more and the cfl lights waste lumens and your plants will stretch up to them.

you may want to look into upgrading your lighting, especially if they are stretching. IMO that isn't enough light to grow two plants effectively. Adding more wattage will let you get max yield.
he has over 40k lumens in his grow space, thats enough for 2 plants??? surely. though im no expert, im actually quite new. just quoting on information ive picked up along the way.
 
you may want to look into upgrading your lighting, especially if they are stretching. IMO that isn't enough light to grow two plants effectively. Adding more wattage will let you get max yield.
Oh no I met normal stretching from the flowering hormone. I have 3 in there now and one male is in a pc they are all very tight and bushy. I know an HPS or MH system would be much more efficient but I cant use them because of the heat. besides in my experience (non auto) i have had very good grows using less cfl's then i have in there now. It is not a beginners set up either, they are in a home made ballast directly 3 inches from the tops. the sides of the ballast comes down around the plants so there is almost no light leaks which means i have over 800 watts putting out a little over 63,000 lumens and thats not including what i will add during actual flowering :).
 
keep the lights within 2-3" of the plants at all times. any more and the cfl lights waste lumens and your plants will stretch up to them.



he has over 40k lumens in his grow space, thats enough for 2 plants??? surely. though im no expert, im actually quite new. just quoting on information ive picked up along the way.
Thank you brettsog I am sure he thought i ment that the plants were stretching for more light lol . and btw 1 450 watt hps system only throws out 50k lumens but will produce massive heat while my 30+ cfl's are throwing out more lumens and heat is not an issue. But with that said it is the light penetration that the HPS throws out that really makes a difference in bud formation. The bud i produce will be allot more airy and less compact then an hps regardless of lumens. thank you all for your input + rep to every one
 

brettsog

Well-Known Member
that is only really a massive issue to commercial growers though. im not fussed with the density of the buds as its only for me to smoke. (<<<fellow cfl grower)
 

brettsog

Well-Known Member
i dont know why people dont like them so much. i live in the uk and i dont know about anyone else but electricity costs a bomb. the cfl setup i am using has added maybe £20 a 1/4 to my bill which no power company will flag. we might not get 300g a plant but its sufficient. :D
 

hoss12781

Well-Known Member
I was refering to light penetration. It's great that you have 40k lumens however only a percentage of those floro lumens are being absorbed by the plants and the fact that they are 26 watters, as mentioned earlier, means they aren't going to have the power to travel very far from the bulb with great efficacy. Not trying to be a dick at all just trying to lend a hand.

I used to use all cfls, I got results however eventually I wanted more ...
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
CFLs offer three real-world advantages:

1. Low startup cost: The bulbs only cost a few dollars each, fit into standard cheap sockets, don't require special ballasts, and are available literally everywhere.

2. High flexibility: You can easily position them around plants, or even inside plants if you like. You can easily turn off any individual bulb by simply unscrewing it, limiting unnecessary energy use early in grows, or easily add more bulbs to increase lighting later, etc.

3. Low contact temperature: CFLs can be brought close to plants without burning them. Note that on a watt for watt basis, CFLs don't put out any less total heat than LEDs, HPS, or Metal halide lights. All of these lighting systems are relatively inefficient, and in fact convert most of the energy input into waste heat. Just by nature of the large bulb surface area, CFLs spread their heat over a greater area so the temperature at any one single point is lower.

Offsetting some of these advantages, CFLs aren't nearly as efficient for growing as you'd think just by looking at the numbers. If you just look at output as lumens per watt, CFLs "seem" to be about 75% as efficient as HPS, but the reality is that they're nowhere near that good.

First of all, lumen measurements are not entirely standardized, and you can't always trust what the bulb makers claim. More important, what matters to plants isn't lumens, which are designed to measure what the human eye likes to see, but rather photosynthetically active radiation or "PAR", which is the portion of the spectrum of light that plants need to grow and flower. Not only do HPS lights put out more light per watt energy used, the overall spectrum of HPS light is typically better for growing, explaining why they are still the gold standard for artificial horticultural lighting.

Next, and a major drawback, is that conventional CFL bulbs are specifically designed to throw light in a spherical shape. That's good for lighting a room (which is what CFLs are for), but lousy for lighting a single plant or flat plant canopy.

Not only is a good bit of the bulbs light wasted by being trapped inside the bulb spiral itself, but more important, if you simply hang a CFL bulb, most of the light it gives off will be directed away from your plant canopy. That's why fluorescent bulbs actually DESIGNED for growing plants are all in a simple tube/linear arrangement like T5s. That sort of arrangement makes it easy to capture virtually all of the bulb's light with simple linear/parabolic reflectors.

Now, the loss of light with CFLs can be improved a great deal with specifically designed GOOD quality reflectors, but how many people actually use polished dimpled batwing/parabolic reflectors over their CFLs? There aren't even many reflectors like that on the market, and the few I've seen aren't particularly cheap nor compact. At $20+ each, using them also reduces many of the cost and flexibility advantages of CFLs that people like. Yes, its possible to construct your own reflector, if you are careful and know what you're doing, but again, how many people actually do it?

Bottom line is that CFLs are a good way to get started growing cheaply and quickly, and they're a good way to go if you want to light a really small space (eg a computer case, a small trunk, etc). They're also adequate for seedlings or cloning. But once you get into "serious" gardens involving multiple square feet, you're going to find T5 fluorescent or HID lighting to be quite a bit more efficient and that's why none of the pros use CFLs in their grow rooms.
 
Thank you Jogro, that was some very good information on cfl's and why hps and t-5's are allot better in pretty much every way. However I do stand by the fact that when used correctly in the right growing conditions and small spaces, cfl's can produce some very nice smoke with very good yields. I do appreciate the fact that you took your time to share useful information ++rep ++
 

brettsog

Well-Known Member
CFLs offer three real-world advantages:

1. Low startup cost: The bulbs only cost a few dollars each, fit into standard cheap sockets, don't require special ballasts, and are available literally everywhere.

2. High flexibility: You can easily position them around plants, or even inside plants if you like. You can easily turn off any individual bulb by simply unscrewing it, limiting unnecessary energy use early in grows, or easily add more bulbs to increase lighting later, etc.

3. Low contact temperature: CFLs can be brought close to plants without burning them. Note that on a watt for watt basis, CFLs don't put out any less total heat than LEDs, HPS, or Metal halide lights. All of these lighting systems are relatively inefficient, and in fact convert most of the energy input into waste heat. Just by nature of the large bulb surface area, CFLs spread their heat over a greater area so the temperature at any one single point is lower.

Offsetting some of these advantages, CFLs aren't nearly as efficient for growing as you'd think just by looking at the numbers. If you just look at output as lumens per watt, CFLs "seem" to be about 75% as efficient as HPS, but the reality is that they're nowhere near that good.

First of all, lumen measurements are not entirely standardized, and you can't always trust what the bulb makers claim. More important, what matters to plants isn't lumens, which are designed to measure what the human eye likes to see, but rather photosynthetically active radiation or "PAR", which is the portion of the spectrum of light that plants need to grow and flower. Not only do HPS lights put out more light per watt energy used, the overall spectrum of HPS light is typically better for growing, explaining why they are still the gold standard for artificial horticultural lighting.

Next, and a major drawback, is that conventional CFL bulbs are specifically designed to throw light in a spherical shape. That's good for lighting a room (which is what CFLs are for), but lousy for lighting a single plant or flat plant canopy.

Not only is a good bit of the bulbs light wasted by being trapped inside the bulb spiral itself, but more important, if you simply hang a CFL bulb, most of the light it gives off will be directed away from your plant canopy. That's why fluorescent bulbs actually DESIGNED for growing plants are all in a simple tube/linear arrangement like T5s. That sort of arrangement makes it easy to capture virtually all of the bulb's light with simple linear/parabolic reflectors.

Now, the loss of light with CFLs can be improved a great deal with specifically designed GOOD quality reflectors, but how many people actually use polished dimpled batwing/parabolic reflectors over their CFLs? There aren't even many reflectors like that on the market, and the few I've seen aren't particularly cheap nor compact. At $20+ each, using them also reduces many of the cost and flexibility advantages of CFLs that people like. Yes, its possible to construct your own reflector, if you are careful and know what you're doing, but again, how many people actually do it?

Bottom line is that CFLs are a good way to get started growing cheaply and quickly, and they're a good way to go if you want to light a really small space (eg a computer case, a small trunk, etc). They're also adequate for seedlings or cloning. But once you get into "serious" gardens involving multiple square feet, you're going to find T5 fluorescent or HID lighting to be quite a bit more efficient and that's why none of the pros use CFLs in their grow rooms.
epic come back. i stand corrected lol +rep for that man.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
epic come back. i stand corrected lol +rep for that man.
To be clear, I wasn't specifically trying to correct you; I just wanted to set the record straight about CFLs, because I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about growing with them.


Thank you Jogro, that was some very good information on cfl's and why hps and t-5's are allot better in pretty much every way. However I do stand by the fact that when used correctly in the right growing conditions and small spaces, cfl's can produce some very nice smoke with very good yields. I do appreciate the fact that you took your time to share useful information ++rep ++
You're welcome.

I absolutely do agree that you can grow top quality buds using fluorescent lighting, including CFLs, and I never said otherwise. It just takes a slightly different lighting technique to do it, compared to HPS, and a little more energy used, that's all.

Again, my only real knock on CFLs is that the difficulty in getting good reflectors for them means that they're actually less efficient in practice then they seem on paper.

That doesn't make CFLs useless; and to the contrary, they are probably THE BEST way of growing in really small spaces or on a really limited budget. The lower efficiency of CFLs just means that once the scale of your grow exceeds just a few square feet, tube fluorescent and HID lighting probably make more sense, that's all.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
is a cfl grow but i have over 30 26 watt cfl's
temps are perfect sitting at 72- 78
they are very healthy and bushy
If I read that right, you're running thirty separate 26 watt CFL lamps, for a total of 780 W?

Um yeah. . .I think 260W each is enough for three small plants!

The "problem" with this sort of lighting isn't that you don't have enough of it (you definitely do), its that much if not most of the light you're generating is probably being wasted because its not being aimed directly at your plants (ie at least half of each bulb is facing away from the plants).

I don't know exactly what your setup looks like, or what your budget or other constraints are, but if you're really willing to run nearly 800W, you "could" be literally running two different 400W HPS setups, together enough to grow 10 (or more) plants.

Conversely, if you just want to light up three small plants, you could probably get away with just one 250W HPS. The initial cost of the 250W lamp and reflector will be higher (you can get a decent combo for roughly $150, or even less if you buy used or shop around carefully). But using one will cut your energy use by 2/3 and reduce heat buildup to boot. Not only will the energy savings pay for itself after a few grows, but it will also create less suspicion in terms of taxing the energy grid.
 
If I read that right, you're running thirty separate 26 watt CFL lamps, for a total of 780 W?

Um yeah. . .I think 260W each is enough for three small plants!

The "problem" with this sort of lighting isn't that you don't have enough of it (you definitely do), its that much if not most of the light you're generating is probably being wasted because its not being aimed directly at your plants (ie at least half of each bulb is facing away from the plants).

I don't know exactly what your setup looks like, or what your budget or other constraints are, but if you're really willing to run nearly 800W, you "could" be literally running two different 400W HPS setups, together enough to grow 10 (or more) plants.

Conversely, if you just want to light up three small plants, you could probably get away with just one 250W HPS. The initial cost of the 250W lamp and reflector will be higher (you can get a decent combo for roughly $150, or even less if you buy used or shop around carefully). But using one will cut your energy use by 2/3 and reduce heat buildup to boot. Not only will the energy savings pay for itself after a few grows, but it will also create less suspicion in terms of taxing the energy grid.
I absolutely agree with you 100%! The set up I have going now I can tell you is allot better then most cfl growers because of the way I have them set up in a ballast but with that said you are right! most of the light is wasted because even with the way I have them now most of the bulb is still like you said not being 100% utilized and even with there being no light leaks in the tent around the ballast most of the light that is being bounced off the tent is almost worthless by the time it gets to the plant itself. Trust me the last thing I want for my babies is not giving them every thing they really need like proper lighting so they can truly reach their full potential. I have came along way since my very first grow and with every one I do I learn allot more about the art of growing and I just wanted to say although I learn allot from plain o'l experience I also learn allot from people like you that will take their time out to help other growers like me so thank you! +rep+
 
Top