Root Development vs Plant Growth

Here's the plan. Roots are merely a mechanism for the plant to uptake nutrients... therefore, so long as the plant is getting fed regularly enough... a small root system should be capable of sustaining a large plant.

I have 18 plants in 0.5litre containers. So far they've been vegging for 13 days. Made a couple of mistakes... I treated this like a sog grow, when it isn't, I also allowed them to stretch a little.

DAY 13

Here's the feed I've just given into 9litres of water:

Sensi Grow A: 18ml
Sensi Grow B: 18ml
MET Grow: 20ml
Fulvic Acid: 11ml
B52: 40ml
Barricade: 1.5ml
Cannazym: 22.5ml

I'm also going to be lowering the light very soon. I'll provide pic's later.

I'm also going to run an experiment along similar lines.

I read on this site on a post from garden knowm about light cycles for veg and the different sizes of roots for the comparison.

He also stated that bigger roots = a bigger plant.

I plan on taking two seedlings from the same strain and putting one on 24 hour lighting and one on 18 hour lighting and comparing the size and yield throughout.

I'm 100% sure that the seedling that recieves 24 hour lighting will out do the 18 hour seedling by some way.

Yes... the dark period will encourage the plants to grow roots, that i spend money on (in the form of cannazym) getting rid of.

Somebody very recently made a valid point that it is the skinny roots that do all the work anyway. The older, larger roots become useless and like I say, i spend money to get these roots eaten away.

By using the 24 system, I feel that the plant will grow just enough root to sustain itself... maybe even more as I am still spending money on cannazym.

I've read that with 24 hour lighting the plant is given more energy and provides more sugars to help it grow. The article also said that if you use 18 hour lighting then you are losing 25% of your growth so a plant on 18 would take 5 weeks veg where as a plant on 24 would take 4 weeks veg.

skunkushybrid said:

Here's the plan. Roots are merely a mechanism for the plant to uptake nutrients... therefore, so long as the plant is getting fed regularly enough... a small root system should be capable of sustaining a large plant.

I have 18 plants in 0.5litre containers. So far they've been vegging for 13 days. Made a couple of mistakes... I treated this like a sog grow, when it isn't, I also allowed them to stretch a little.

DAY 13

Here's the feed I've just given into 9litres of water:

Sensi Grow A: 18ml
Sensi Grow B: 18ml
MET Grow: 20ml
Fulvic Acid: 11ml
B52: 40ml
Barricade: 1.5ml
Cannazym: 22.5ml

I'm also going to be lowering the light very soon. I'll provide pic's later.

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I would agree,a small yet efficient root system is better for indoor growers,this is why i repot 3 times to keep the root system small and tight.
The plant doesn't waste time and energy on growing huge root systems and having huge pots to soon also causes stretch.
My plants never have fluffy buds even when i only used fluros to grow because of this i think.
The plant will emulate its root system if the roots are tight the nuggs will be tight.
I have no choice but to keep my plants short and fat and tight because of space issues so i have to do this anyway

Hey nat', with all your experience... do you have any thoughts on the amount of B vitamins a plant needs during veg' and flower?

you guys want bigger and more roots?! If your using rockwool you need to learn how to dry it out to the point where roots search for water but u don't want dry out the roots. For dwc, you want the bubles to splash onto the roots so that it can grow downwards. Aero you don't have to do anything but maintain.

Its simple, roots expand and search for water from the plants response that it needs water. Just how a huge ass tree would have roots deep into the earth if theres a drought on top of the surface.

wafflehouselover said:

you guys want bigger and more roots?!

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I'd appreciate you reading through what's going on before adding your 2 cents.

skunkushybrid said:

Hey nat', with all your experience... do you have any thoughts on the amount of B vitamins a plant needs during veg' and flower?

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LOL i have many years of exp of basically growing untechnically in mud,many people here i am sure know a damn site more than me.

One thing i do know is how to grow a great plant from a pot of mud and about helping to keep plants healthy and trained for your situation,i am fairly good at identifying problems with the plants as i have had so many problems myself over the years.

Anyway i have heard that you can feed your plants vitamin b complexes to improve growth rate and yield but i have never used it myself.
I did once try crushed kelp tablets but i found that it helped to encourage soil mould so i no longer did it.

Plants do need vitamins yes but how many and how often is not something that i really know about and i think it is probably more relevant to hyrdo/aero growers as well maintained soil with the correct nutrients will encourage the plant to produce for its own needs.

I have noticed that one of the key ingredients in molasses which is probably why many people who grow in soil rave about molasses is vitamin b as well as the carbs molasses has a large amount of vitamin b amongst other things as well as acting as a chelating agent which helps root growth in soil anyway.

Anyway please dont think i think im a know it all,i know that i only know a small amount of the knowledge and i know nothing hardly at all when it comes to hydro/aero/dwc etc.

OK, just wondered... some guy I was speaking to reckons I'm giving my plants too much. I asked him "why, how much do they need then?"

He couldn't answer me.

skunkushybrid said:

OK, just wondered... some guy I was speaking to reckons I'm giving my plants too much. I asked him "why, how much do they need then?"

He couldn't answer me.

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I don't think it would easy to overdose a plant on vitamins as the plant could only take them up through its roots at its standard rate of absorption,its not the same as nutrients all though i don't know this for a fact.

Do you use a hydro nutrient of vit b or are you just adding something that contains vit b?

natmoon said:

I don't think it would easy to overdose a plant on vitamins as the plant could only take them up through its roots at its standard rate of absorption,its not the same as nutrients all though i don't know this for a fact.

Do you use a hydro nutrient of vit b or are you just adding something that contains vit b?

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I'm using a product called B52 by Advanced Nutrients. I also use superthrive if I haven't got any B52...

I follow the advanced charts... to a degree. I look at it like they know better than I do about the right levels of nutes. I don't follow the charts exactly as they are based on an 8 week flower schedule... I'm also fairly experienced enough with them now to make calculations based on varying factors.

Like I said, the guy said I was wasting my B52... yet he couldn't explain how HE knew better than a company with a team of scientists NASA would be envious of. He's had me thinking though since... but what I've found is that the more nutes you give, the bigger your plants get.

skunkushybrid said:

I'm using a product called B52 by Advanced Nutrients. I also use superthrive if I haven't got any B52...

I follow the advanced charts... to a degree. I look at it like they know better than I do about the right levels of nutes. I don't follow the charts exactly as they are based on an 8 week flower schedule... I'm also fairly experienced enough with them now to make calculations based on varying factors.

Like I said, the guy said I was wasting my B52... yet he couldn't explain how HE knew better than a company with a team of scientists NASA would be envious of. He's had me thinking though since... but what I've found is that the more nutes you give, the bigger your plants get.

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Yeah definitely finding your type of plants max tolerance levels for nutes will improve your yields.
Your friend may be thinking that what your adding is wasted as the plant can only take up so much as to be useful in the allocated time.
My theory is to see what works and what doesn't and then stick to it and ignore the rest.

Some strains can tolerate exceptionally high levels of nutes and even toxicity whereas others would be dead in a few days.
Basically if you can see that it works for you do it or use a test plant which is what i do each grow i have one test plant that i feed all sorts of crap to.
As an example BigBud would probably grow in a couple of dog turds whereas say Blueberry would probably die within days.

At the moment im experimenting with mixing miracle gro and tomato food with molasses,so far i burnt the plant a little bit lol.
I have to slightly lower the miracle gro i think but i have noticed that all though i burnt the plant the crystal development is very high.

I grow in coco coir and perlite 60/40. coir is an excellent ph balancer, it absorbs many of the excess salts left over from heavy nute schedules. My strain is also chronic, at least in growth behaviour, as it is crossed with white russian which plays more a part in the high.

Also, since growing in coco I'm sure the taste of my bud has improved. It reminds me of soil grown bud... but you get all the advantages of hydro. If you're looking for a soil replacement, coco would be a great choice. It even looks like soil.

skunkushybrid said:

I grow in coco coir and perlite 60/40. coir is an excellent ph balancer, it absorbs many of the excess salts left over from heavy nute schedules. My strain is also chronic, at least in growth behaviour, as it is crossed with white russian which plays more a part in the high.

Also, since growing in coco I'm sure the taste of my bud has improved. It reminds me of soil grown bud... but you get all the advantages of hydro. If you're looking for a soil replacement, coco would be a great choice. It even looks like soil.

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I may one day try hydro but for the foreseeable future i am going to stick with what i know.
Hydro seems like such a hassle and initial expense to me,but that may just be my age showing through.
Did you cross the chronic x wr yourself and have stabilised it as seed or are you cloning the best?

natmoon said:

I may one day try hydro but for the foreseeable future i am going to stick with what i know.
Hydro seems like such a hassle and initial expense to me,but that may just be my age showing through.
Did you cross the chronic x wr yourself and have stabilised it as seed or are you cloning the best?

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not mine... I wouldn't know an f6 from an f1. I just clone. The guy i got them from is a breeder though. This strain should end up in the shops soon. Not sure when, or what it will be called yet though.

ive read that useing 24 hour veg,gives you a 15%increase over 18/6,but you are useing 25%more power,so if power and money is a consideration,then 18/6.

trapper said:

ive read that useing 24 hour veg,gives you a 15%increase over 18/6,but you are useing 25%more power,so if power and money is a consideration,then 18/6.

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I'd like to see the source, i read a ed rosenthal column where he said you lose 25% of growth from running 24/0 and it works out cheaper because for every month you veg you lose a weeks worth on 18/6 and all other costs remain static like rent and everything else.

18/6 is actually more expensive in the long run

im a one finger typer jorges grow bible page 175 pot can efficiently process 16 to 18 hours of light after which it has deminishing returns,also a study in hight times but thats 80 mags i read so to find the story would take a weekend.but it doesnt really matter its about preferance in the end.

trapper said:

im a one finger typer jorges grow bible page 175 pot can efficiently process 16 to 18 hours of light after which it has deminishing returns,also a study in hight times but thats 80 mags i read so to find the story would take a weekend.but it doesnt really matter its about preferance in the end.

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I've got a jorge cervantes book and to be honest i've read through it and I question a lot of his "facts" but ed rosenthal I will take his word every day of the week.