schizophrenics need guns, not mental health care

Is it wise to let schizophrenics buy guns and block their access to mental healthcare?

  • yep, smart move. give them guns!

  • no, that's monumentally fucking dumb. don't let them buy guns.

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Final Phase

Final Phase

Well-Known Member
On the serious side - A son in law of mine who is bi-polar and schizophrenic whatever that means... The poor man went into a state of mind - got hold of a shotgun that went off in a parking lot with people standing around. This is his third time in for dumb ass shit.

The thing with mental illness is there is no guarantee a mental patient who is "better" won't go off and hurt people again and again.

My son in law is looking at 20 to life and is hoping to get into a medical facility - in California that can be very hard to do.

I think you posted a valid issue to consider UncleBuck!
 
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tampee

tampee

Well-Known Member
The right to bare arms shall not be infringed!!

Not like a kid couldn't buy everything needed to make a bomb no ID required.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
CouchGouch said:
I'm anti firearms, or any means to murder your own, but it's a difficult debate. I don't think protecting your property is a sufficient argument for killing a person who may be stealing to feed himself, his habit or his family. If a persons intention was to kill you, you probably wouldn't have the chance to arm yourself. But that's just speculation, so it's a gamble. I'd say anyone robbing you is a position they're in where they have far few choices than you do

But in a country where gun ownership is legal, means you have no way of knowing if an intruder ihas the means to kill you, i.e. a gun. Luckily I'm in a country where gun ownership is recognised as a threat community safety. This is were the hypocrite comes out, if I thought there was geniune threat to my family, would I want a gun, yes. But I think eradication of murder weapons is the way forward
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Your argument doesn't hold water. Its illegal for someone to rob you and break in. They are already breaking laws. What's one more?
 
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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
blu3bird said:
I think if the mentally ill has a payee, then they still aren't allowed access to firearms.

But it's (probably) not the best idea to give guns to mentally disabled folks

Maybe let them have air rifles if they want to practice shooting skillz
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They hunt big game with air guns now.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
Final Phase said:
On the serious side - A son in law of mine who is bi-polar and schizophrenic whatever that means... The poor man went into a state of mind - got hold of a shotgun that went off in a parking lot with people standing around. This is his third time in for dumb ass shit.

The thing with mental illness is there is no guarantee a mental patient who is "better" won't go off and hurt people again and again.

My son in law is looking at 20 to life and is hoping to get into a medical facility - in California that can be very hard to do.

I think you posted a valid issue to consider UncleBuck!
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there is no guaranty that a postal worker or a cop wont go off or become a serial killer. most murderers are not considered mentally ill.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
CouchGouch said:
I'm anti firearms, or any means to murder your own, but it's a difficult debate. I don't think protecting your property is a sufficient argument for killing a person who may be stealing to feed himself, his habit or his family. If a persons intention was to kill you, you probably wouldn't have the chance to arm yourself. But that's just speculation, so it's a gamble. I'd say anyone robbing you is a position they're in where they have far few choices than you do

But in a country where gun ownership is legal, means you have no way of knowing if an intruder ihas the means to kill you, i.e. a gun. Luckily I'm in a country where gun ownership is recognised as a threat community safety. This is were the hypocrite comes out, if I thought there was geniune threat to my family, would I want a gun, yes. But I think eradication of murder weapons is the way forward
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than you are against the death penalty too. right? the idea is you mess with man in his home you might not walk away . you are not restricted to non lethal shots because you are not expected to know how to fire them. if a licensing process is implemented and training made mandatory you can try to change that law . cops are a threat to community safety. gentrification is a threat to community safety. people are a threat to the earth but we don't have to be and we shouldn't eliminate people because they are a threat or there would be lot more culling.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
what do you think
whitebb2727 said:
I advocate gun rights but this is really stupid.
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saying all mentally ill can't own a gun is like saying all black or white people can't own a gun. mere people are shot by average people than crazys going crazy. if you want to be fair and just and protect peoples safety you require tactical and ethical training for each type of use you would use a gun for in order to be allowed to use it in that situation. and a psych eval. for mentally ill or a fitness test for disabled.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
what do you think

saying all mentally ill can't own a gun is like saying all black or white people can't own a gun. mere people are shot by average people than crazys going crazy. if you want to be fair and just and protect peoples safety you require tactical and ethical training for each type of use you would use a gun for in order to be allowed to use it in that situation. and a psych eval. for mentally ill or a fitness test for disabled.
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I'll bite. Give an example. One mental illness you think is ok to own a gun with.

I've worked in the mental health field. Fact is most have someone as guardian or ward of the state. That removes certain rights.

Its not the same as someone's skin color. We are talking about mental illness.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I'll bite. Give an example. One mental illness you think is ok to own a gun with.

I've worked in the mental health field. Fact is most have someone as guardian or ward of the state. That removes certain rights.

Its not the same as someone's skin color. We are talking about mental illness.
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glad you will discuss it. i'll be mellow ;) . i would rule out most active psychosis but not all. i will rule out homicidal suicidal 51\50 and more that will temp. be unallowed to purchase or brandish or fire and in some cases own ever. However your experience is not the norm. about 1 in five Americans are mentally ill. 1 in five are disabled. most can care for themselves .

  • Anxiety Disorders
  • Bipolar and Related Disorder
  • Disruptive, Impulse-Control, and Conduct Disorders
  • Dissociative Disorders
  • Feeding and Eating Disorders
  • Neurocognitive Disorders
  • Neurodevelopmental Disorders
  • Personality Disorders
  • Sleep-Wake Disorders
  • Somatic Symptoms and Related Disorders
  • Substance-Related and Addictive Disorders
  • Trauma and Stressor-Related Disorders
  • Intellectual disability (or Intellectual Developmental Disorder), formerly referred to as mental retardation
  • Developmental delay
  • Communication disorders
  • Language disorder
  • Autism spectrum disorder
  • Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder
https://www.verywell.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776
what disorders would you ban from owning a gun? all of them?
what about after and in recovery?


nearly 1 in 5 Americans suffer from mental illness
Nearly 1 in 5 People Have a Disability in the U.S
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
glad you will discuss it. i'll be mellow ;) . i would rule out most active psychosis but not all. i will rule out homicidal suicidal 51\50 and more that will temp. be unallowed to purchase or brandish or fire and in some cases own ever. However your experience is not the norm. about 1 in five Americans are mentally ill. 1 in five are disabled. most can care for themselves .

  • Anxiety Disorders
  • Bipolar and Related Disorder
  • Disruptive, Impulse-Control, and Conduct Disorders
  • Dissociative Disorders
  • Feeding and Eating Disorders
  • Neurocognitive Disorders
  • Neurodevelopmental Disorders
  • Personality Disorders
  • Sleep-Wake Disorders
  • Somatic Symptoms and Related Disorders
  • Substance-Related and Addictive Disorders
  • Trauma and Stressor-Related Disorders
  • Intellectual disability (or Intellectual Developmental Disorder), formerly referred to as mental retardation
  • Developmental delay
  • Communication disorders
  • Language disorder
  • Autism spectrum disorder
  • Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder
https://www.verywell.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776
what disorders would you ban from owning a gun? all of them?
what about after and in recovery?


nearly 1 in 5 Americans suffer from mental illness
Nearly 1 in 5 People Have a Disability in the U.S
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Then how would you rule out the ones that shouldn't own one.

This is mainly about schizophrenics I'm comfortable with saying no to guns for them.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Then how would you rule out the ones that shouldn't own one.

This is mainly about schizophrenics I'm comfortable with saying no to guns for them.
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so that's different then all disabilities and mental illness . still not all schizophrenics are ever dangerous and many recover. i am advocating a certificate of training and and a special pysch eval. no bans on weapons but restrictions of what you can use and carry.
 
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