SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by Humanrob, Apr 2, 2016.

  1.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    i am reading the sea kelp provides some good minerals?,, who knows, I think the horse poop and chicken poop are the magic touch, ahahaha,, at least that horse is good for something!
     
  2.  
    Weedy willy

    Weedy willy Member

    Will anyone else give their opions on organic vs salt based nutes in a sip
     
  3.  
    Evil-Mobo

    Evil-Mobo Well-Known Member

    Was already mentioned what do you do with a SIP if the plant gets locked out from too much buildup..........? Maybe not a big deal with a small plant in veg, but if you have let's say a big 5 foot girl in flower then what?
     
    Tim Fox likes this.
  4.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

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  5.  
    Weedy willy

    Weedy willy Member

  6.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Tim Fox likes this.
  7.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    I think @Evil-Mobo and someguy and hyroot had the best ideas for growing the sips, with the No till set ups,, just water only in the res, I am sure trying to not ad much to mine,, i probably should not have even put the big bloom in there,, the things we do when we are high right,, hahaha,,
    Buildasoil https://buildasoil.com/ these guys really have it going on,, at the very least get a good soil and put thier amendment mix into it,, should make for a good water only grow,, but for the true no till guys,, that place is a gold mine,,
    not sure if this was what you were asking?

    @Weedy willy hey bro check out build a soil,, may help with some of your questions ,,
     
  8.  
    Evil-Mobo

    Evil-Mobo Well-Known Member

  9.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    Lets see those SIPs,
     
  10.  
    meangreengrowinmachine

    meangreengrowinmachine Well-Known Member

    First off... thanks to @Tim Fox for pointing to this thread! My idea is to make a large sip bed, I'm using the same 27 gallon tough totes (those with the yellow lids you see on this thread) however instead of using them solely as a water rezoning, and growing in 5-10 gallon fabric pots, I am filling one 27 gallon tote with soil and adding it on top of the rez. I'm using a 3 gallons fabric pot as a wick... homemade organic cooked soil (recipe on request lol) I plan on making many more but this one was on the fly and have a few questions before proceeding.

    1. Is my wick too large? I can't seem to find any concrete answer on wick sizing.
    2. How many plants do your think I can run in a 27 gallon tote of soil?
    3. I have some very rich soil (compost, homemade ewc, kelp, neem, organic tomato tone, rock dust, lime, crabmeal, azomite, alfalfa meal, .... I think that's all lol) how many runs can I use these for before I need to take the soil out and re ammend? Or can I just keep cooking soil and top dressing?
    4. Do I NEED to have holes in my upper tote or wick, in order for the roots to get to the rez?

    Thanks all! I'll take detailed pics of my next build to add to the thread! As well as pics of plants once they go into the SIPs... they are still babies atm....

    Thanks again!
     
    Humanrob likes this.
  11.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    I am going to ask @Humanrob to help out with some of your questions , I have been around the block with these SIPs, but I have yet to personally construct my own, as I purchased the earthbox,,, But I did go all thru the DIY plans and followed along with everyone elses DIY sip builds,, and here is what I have learned
    1. yes your wick is probably too big, other guys have reported,, ( someguy and hyroot) that they experiamented with wick sizing and if the wick is too large the soil is too damp/wet and the plants droop out and the thing is a wash.
    2. I have 2 plants going in my Sip and it only holds 10 or 11 gallons of soil,, the plants are thriving, I knowing that the storage tubs are deeper than they are wide?,,, I will go out on a limb and say 2 plants, if indoors,, if outdoors,, maybe 1,, because you will have a monster on your hands,, @Humanrob had trees in 5 gallon bucket sips last summer
    3. your soil sounds awesome,, should be enough for a water only run, hyroot was doing no till in his sips,, and making his own worm castings in a worm bin,, but it sounded like he was dumping his soil out between grows and mixing in new goodies and re packing the sip,, the people growing tomatos on the web shows them simply adding fresh nutes to the sips and making another run,,
    4. yes you need the holes in the floor between the upper and lower tubs, this allows not only roots to reach the water res eaiser,, it also allows for allot more air transfer eitehr from the static air space ( like i am running),, or from an airstone if you go that route.

    Did you take a good look at the SIP plans on page one that rob posted it shows really good builds for storage tubs, and wick sizing
    a fabric pot top is not neccasary ,, a tub in a tub works too, pretty flexable on this stuff
    also everyone who did DIY was stating that its easy to make a wick to large,, and with too many holes, most were reporting less is more when it comes to the wick,, the wick has to reach the bottom of the res,
     
  12.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    @meangreengrowinmachine
    some pics for referance, I know your not building a fabric over tub, but these pics show some wick ideas

    pictures from someguy and hyroot
     

    Attached Files:

  13.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Very ambitious project! I look forward to seeing the pics and I hope you'll let us know how it does. I can't answer all of your questions.

    As far as wick size goes... there is no science around this (yet?). I've made a variety of sizes and all have worked, but I've never used anything as completely porous as a fabric pot, nor anything nearly that big. I think using a fabric pot for the wick is a very interesting idea! That said, I would side with Tim on this and say it's probably too big.

    How many can you/should you grow in that bin? It depends on your grow style. @PSUAGRO. has a grow going with multiple plants in a 30 gallon bag, but I'm not sure how many he has in there. His (I believe) is a 14/10 from seed grow. I once did a grow in a 54 gallon Rubbermaid bin (soil only, no SIP), and I comfortably grew three in there), so two would give them lots of root space.

    I'm not sure what kind of grow environment you have, or what your grow style is. The biggest SIPs I've built were 14 gallon bins nested into 18 gallon containers. When it came time to break it down and clean it after the run, I had to disassemble it in the tent, because there was no way I could lift it out. Know that once everything is set up, the soil stays moist. So you will have about 25 gallons of wet soil over about 25 gallons of water (not filling it all the way to leave the air gap, still weighs over 200 lbs.). That is going to be VERY heavy.

    I would suggest going out into your yard, stacking one bin on top of the other, and filling the top bin with water as a sort of 'stress test' of the platform before you run it. The lid of the bottom bin has to be strong enough (even after all the holes are drilled in it and the wick space is cut out) to hold all that wet soil for several months. Something to think about. After making my 14/18 SIP, I decided that I didn't want to build one so big that I could not lift it. But that's just me.

    Also, there are points of diminishing returns. Over 20 gallons of water in a res is a lot of water to work with. Make sure that your wick reaches the bottom, or you are wasting space. One of the great things about these systems is that the plants start to drink fast as they get big, and we are refilling our res's sometimes every other day, sometimes every day. This keeps the water fresh. If you create a set up (for instance) so that you can go away for 2 weeks and not have to refill it, you are going to have a large amount of standing water for a long period of time. That is something to manage. If that were my goal I would prefer a remote reservoir, using a float valve in my main res.

    Anyway, some things to think about. Look forward to seeing your progress! :)
     
  14.  
    meangreengrowinmachine

    meangreengrowinmachine Well-Known Member

    thanks for the input rob! YES they are extremely heavy but i had anticipated this and have in on plant casters i had laying around so i can wheel it around the concrete basement from veg to flower etc. as far as weight on the lid the way i did it was i used a plastic milk carton cut down a bit so i have about 8 inches of rez in the bottom.. testing this i can easily hold well over 6 gallons of water and still have the said needed air gap. From a lot of the SIP things i have watched online they are using chunks of landscaping fabric to keep dirt out of the rez so i figured why not just use that AS the wick. as far as wick size unless there is a point where it gets just TOO big.. i think my proportions are pretty much right on for how much soil I have.. I think the 3 gallon will work in this set up just because I'm using 27 freaking gallons of soil lol.. also the reason that I want to try for such a large amount of soil, is because all that i have seen on the organic threads are that bigger containers for water only are better and help you develop a more diverse soil food web... so i figured go big or go home hahaha. I will get some pics up when i make a second one and keep everyone posted how this one does once i move the seedlings into it. thanks guys!
     
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  15.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    my current sip grow week 7 flower completed IMG_7242.JPG
     
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  16.  
    meangreengrowinmachine

    meangreengrowinmachine Well-Known Member

    very nice! I really want to get some of those COBs.. im only under a 600 watt HID in a tent atm.. but i have the plans and gathering materials to get the big room(s) built. I do have a veg area also but that just has floros in it..how many plants and sips you working with there? I read through the whole thread but i dont recall which ones you were running earthbox after the tomato run right?
     
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  17.  
    Rrog

    Rrog Well-Known Member

    Back in the day on another forum we were growing highly aerated soil with a reservoir below and air stones. I did a few rounds that way. The constant-moist soil, along with great aeration was the benefit I found.

    Now I use the same highly aerated soil plan, but with BluMat drippers and Geopots for air. I get lotsa air, and constant moisture - no runoff.

    Many ways to have fun growing
     
  18.  
    meangreengrowinmachine

    meangreengrowinmachine Well-Known Member

    I would say do one or the other i think the salts will be inhibiting if not killing your organic soil food web.. i think they could work in this application... the main thing i would be worried about would be a large build up of them and how you would flush them in the end to not get those popping with chemical stuff buds (believe me I have done it and it was with fox farms yuck). Personally the whole reason i am going to SIPs is to be able to have a large amount of soil which is easier to maintain a soil food web in as opposed to salt nutes... If I was going to go salt based i would be using something different.. aero ponics with jacks or something like that maybe dwc which is similar in that you use plants that sit on or in the water rez and air stones... just my opinion man... you asked (-;
     
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  19.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Here's a quick pic of my current SIP run, just hitting week 6. It's kind of a sloppy grow, but it's doing OK.

    01.11_2x4sips.jpg
     
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  20.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    I totally like it,, on my next grow i may have to switch to garbage bags for a top cover,, i really doubt i want to purchase new ones from earth box,,,

    speaking of earth box,, i was looking at the grow box again this morning, ,I could really use a larger res,, the earthbox has 2.5 gallons, BUT the grow box has a 4 gallon res,,AND the grow box has a res fill point on front,, not a fill tube,, and with the fill port you can actually SEE down into the res,, kinda like the octopots can,, those have a port window next to the res level indicator
    what i like about the grow box is the dimensions are almost identical to the erath box,, which fits my grow cab so well
    here is a link to the grow box on amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/Garden-Patch...007YPDTYI/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

    some reviewers are rating the grow box better than the earthbox,,
     
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