Soil-less Organics with Professor Matt Rize

RPsmoke420 said:

Any opinion on Canna's coco blend?
How about hydroton instead of perlite? I remember throwing old broken clay pot parts into the bottoms of containers before dumping in regular soil. Same idea, right?
If you have a hydro grow, maybe clean the hydroton off, then use it in the soil/soil-less medium. Just thinking out loud I guess.
How about some ideas of disposing of your medium? Do you reuse?

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RPsmoke420 said:

Right on man. Not a fan of throwing much away either. Try and find a use for it when I can. I put some in the raised beds outside, and other spots around the house. Sometimes dump into other pots, to use in house plants and what not. Always looking for more options. Wondering if I could get away with two runs per batch, before moving it outdoors. As long as everything is healthy, I think it could work. Maybe go 50/50 fresh and old. Something to play around with at least.

Why would pumice be a better material? Just curious.

I know you are/were a big fan of the Bio Terra Plus from Canna. Now that it is no longer available... any experience with their coco? http://www.cannagardening.com/node/1422 I believe that is still available here. Is your BTP turning into soil yet?

Have been using Roots Organics 707 formula. It works great, has less perlite then most mixes I've played with. It does have bat guano and fish bone meal in it. Holds water a little much though.

Just toking and typing

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Matt Rize said:

lol rp, toking and typing, that should be the new subforum.

I think pumice holds more air than the hydroton stones. I like the very airy structure of pumice.

Reusing media is for sure a good option, but I like to give the mix a grow cycle to rest, then re-amend. I've noticed it takes weeks, and months if it is cool, for the roots to fully decompose after a round. A 50:50 mix (reuse:fresh) would work well, but remember the nutrient pre-charge will be half of what it would be with 100% fresh. That means you will have to fertigate harder, or mix in some meal to compensate for the reused media's lack of nutrients.

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Matt Rize said:

lol rp, toking and typing, that should be the new subforum.

I think pumice holds more air than the hydroton stones. I like the very airy structure of pumice.

Reusing media is for sure a good option, but I like to give the mix a grow cycle to rest, then re-amend. I've noticed it takes weeks, and months if it is cool, for the roots to fully decompose after a round. A 50:50 mix (reuse:fresh) would work well, but remember the nutrient pre-charge will be half of what it would be with 100% fresh. That means you will have to fertigate harder, or mix in some meal to compensate for the reused media's lack of nutrients.

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RPsmoke420 said:

Always man!

I gotcha. I was wondering if there was something more to it. I'd agree the pumice would hold more air. The Roots Organics 707 uses more pumice then perlite from what I can see.

Good info man, appreciate it. Sure wish I still had some canna soil.

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NightbirdX said:

Hey man, not sure if you post here anymore but I'll give it a try and if not, I'll repost on your Veganic section. Basically I had a couple of questions.

The first is about BTP. Does BTP have slow release nutrients or is it a soilless like Pro-Mix. I read through this whole thread and was kinda confused as you seemed to be talking about it as a non fertilized soilless medium, and as I understood it, BTP had slow release nutes in it. Any place you know of to get it online?

My second question is about Molasses. When should I start adding molasses to my nutrient mix. I have heard a couple of variations. I have heard that it needs to be done during the beginning of flowering and then others say at the last 2 weeks before flushing. What do you suggest?

My last question is about teas. Basically my grow goes like this, I do 4 Plant a month rotations to comply with my state limitation plant limit of 12. They are in 15 gallon pots and are in a 1:1 mix of Pro-Mix orange and Happy Frog organic soil. I water every 5-7 days and the plants recieve 2.5gallons of water. Basically right now they are getting 8ml of BioFlores, 5ml Cannazyme, 5ml of Rhizotonic, and 5ml of BioBoost per gallon in Flowering. In Veg they are getting 8ml of BioVega, 5ml Cannazyme, and 5ml of Rhizotonic per gallon. I am going to cut my watering down to 1 gallon every 2-3days and every other watering give my plants a tea. My tea is going to consist of some Peppermint compost for bacterias, Molasses for sugars, and I was going to add some soluble Mycorrhizae to help recharge the soil. Depending on if my plants are in Veg or Flowering, I was going to add 1ml of Vega or 1ml Flores/1mlBioBoost per gallon for some nutrients. I could add some Happy Frog to the soil for some more nutrients and bacterias. The solids will go in a panty hose and be tied and the solubles will be added after the solids have been brewed in hot water for several hours. Does this sound like a good base for a tea? Does anything look like it is missing?

Thank you for taking the time to responds, should you so choose to, and thanks for the great information. I am learning a lot from you and my plants look amazing.

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Molasses to neutralize Chlorine and Chloramines in tap water?
From T Wilson of microbeorganics.com

"1/ ascorbic acid for chloramines or chlorine; 3 grams in 100 gallons will
treat up to 3PPM.

2/ I found your chlorine test interesting and decided to do the same to
put my arguement that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the
chlorine and chloramine.

Using a similar test strip that tests for both free and total
chlorine, I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of
free and total chlorine,respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of city
water, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not
instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.
The one gallon reaction showed no dectable chlorine of either type
withing 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20
minutes.

Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum
4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.

Run these same numbers for pure glucose (a reducing monosaccharide) and you end up needing 10ppm glucose. When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.

I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that
goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as
oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents.

Cane molasses runs at 15-20% reducing sugar.
Regulations allow a maximum of 4ppm chlorine, expressed as Cl2.
Allowing for the molecular weight difference between Cl2 the
reducing sugars in molasses, you would need 10ppm reducing sugar to
react with the chlorine.
At 15% reducing sugar, you need 66ppm molasses.

I put my molasses in first, give it some time to react and don't
worry."

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RPsmoke420 said:

I'm sure he's just super busy, and will respond once he gets a chance. I can add my 2 cents too...

BTP - soilless with almost no nutrient value. It is designed to work along with their liquid fertilizers. It's the "soil structure" that most people fall in love with, with BTP. No perlite needed. It's great, and not available for the most part. I heard they may be some in Texas...

I use Molasses through out. I generally flush for two weeks. First of those two is just molasses and water. Last week just water. I'll add this note (not my info. Credit to the orginal author is in there)



I've heard argument for everything in between. I'd say experiment. Run some side by sides. See what works.

Do you plan to aerate your tea? Here is a tea recipe:
Dr. Ingham of Soil Food Web Labs (www.soilfoodweb.com):

5 gal brewer
1 lb. compost
½ cup of humic acid
1 to 3 T. of kelp
1 tsp. of non-sulfured, blackstrap molasses

I have read some interesting articles on the idea that plant food actually hurts your tea. I say keep the tea simple. Water, compost, molasses, humic acid, then aerate for 12 to 24 hours, strain, dilute, feed.

best of luck!

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RPsmoke420 said:

I'm sure he's just super busy, and will respond once he gets a chance. I can add my 2 cents too...

BTP - soilless with almost no nutrient value. It is designed to work along with their liquid fertilizers. It's the "soil structure" that most people fall in love with, with BTP. No perlite needed. It's great, and not available for the most part. I heard they may be some in Texas...

I use Molasses through out. I generally flush for two weeks. First of those two is just molasses and water. Last week just water. I'll add this note (not my info. Credit to the orginal author is in there)

I've heard argument for everything in between. I'd say experiment. Run some side by sides. See what works.

Do you plan to aerate your tea? Here is a tea recipe:
Dr. Ingham of Soil Food Web Labs (www.soilfoodweb.com):

5 gal brewer
1 lb. compost
½ cup of humic acid
1 to 3 T. of kelp
1 tsp. of non-sulfured, blackstrap molasses

I have read some interesting articles on the idea that plant food actually hurts your tea. I say keep the tea simple. Water, compost, molasses, humic acid, then aerate for 12 to 24 hours, strain, dilute, feed.

best of luck!

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NightbirdX said:

I appreciate the info man. I don't really have an aerator right now, but I had planned on steeping the nylon in hot water, stir occassionally vigorously, and then use it after that. I plan on getting a brewer eventually, but I am still low on funds and have a few other things needed before I can justify a brewer.

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R3DROCk9 said:

wuzup matt....didnt read much bu the headline..anyways i'm runnin Vermicrop CocoNot righ now..you familiar? any1 have any runs wit it?? i am lovin it so far...its clean and very absorbant..seems to dry up normal like normal soil (about 3 days under 1k), and it seems to fill up with air like a marshmallow (not as drastic, tho) when it dries...i sometimes push it down like a marshmallow, too, and it'll spring back up over the next few hours...great product IMHO

anywyas, heres how they describe it on their website:

Utilizing a specific layer of the redwood bark and using a proprietary method to grind the material into 6 different size/shaped particles of medium, we have created a structure made with the sole purpose to grow plants. We found by adding the fiber of a Kapok fruit we were able to add additional buoyancy, resilience, and drainage. This fiber is made of mostly Lignin: Lignin is generally associated with reduced digestibility of the overall plant biomass, which helps defend against pathogens and pests. A perfect air to water ratio, pH'd and buffered for optimal nutrient uptake CocoNot is free of excess salts and is providing amazing results for growers.

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Matt Rize said:

Honestly I stopped using coconot, but I heard Kushman is having good results with it. Glad to hear you are loving it as well. What are you feeding it? Did you mix anything in or go straight out the bag?

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HeavyHebrew said:

Mr. Matt Rize,

For a beginner like myself, what is your opinion on un-modified premier pro-mix bx with the Earth Juice nutrient lineup (grow, bloom, catalyst, micro, etc) for a first grow?
Would using dolomite lime be a good idea for ph balancing?

Thanks in advance and may fortune smile upon you!

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Pro-Mix High Porosity (HP) provides a superior growing environment for plants that require increased drainage and oxygen. In addition to Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, perlite, major- and micronutrients, and dolomite and calcitic limestone, it's fortified with beneficial endomycorrhizal fungus to strengthen roots and increase plants' ability to fully utilize available nutrients. This is a compressed 3.8 cubic foot bale.

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Vindicated said:

Hey Matt. You have some interesting views, but there is one I have a question about. On the first page of this thread you mentioned potted plants and recommend beneficial organisms like mycorrhizae. My question is this: if you as the gardener are able to supply all the nutrients to the plants, how are these fungi beneficial? Aren't they stealing sugars from the plant with no added benefit?

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