Space bucket - Citizen COBs, MW drivers, distance from canopy

Hey,

I have been growing in a 6 gallon thrash bin for a while with SMD 5630 led strips. Time for some upgrades.

I got this new 11 gallon IKEA aluminium thrash bin where I will be installing 3x Citizen CLU048-1212, I plan to run them with a HLG240-1400mA, dimmed to 700mA, 75W draw set up. If I don't dim the lights more likely plants will suffer from bleaching, in this type of setup it's normal to have the canopy 3-4 inches from the lights.

Of course I don't need a HGL240 to run 3x 1212, but later I will expand to a 4x2 space where I will use the HGL240 full power (1400mA) with 5x 1212, so 250W total draw. I ordered 5x 1212 4000K 80CRI for 52€ with shipping incl. (EU users check on ebay for export-estonia).

Where I live there's a guy selling used aluminium heat sinks 10€ per kilo, what else could I ask for.

Now, I'm not sure about a few things:

1 - Is it equally efficient to run 3x 1212 on a HGL240-1400mA, as it is to run 5x 1212 on the same driver?

2 - I never used COBs or HPS, I'm not used to high light output, this being said, having the canopy 3-4 inches from lights will cause any damages on the plants? Keep in mind I will run the 3x 1212 dimmed to 700mA. The bucket I will be growing is 20 inches in height.... so you got the picture.

Thanks.

#1 Of course not... making it work less is better but keep future development open.
#2 Three of them are going to be bright, shouldn't have a problem venting heat at 700mA with good exhaust.
6 to 8 inches is what I'd shoot for, but have seen some grows with stretchy colas up next to the lights.
Have Vero 13s at 350mA and have veg plants within 6 inches all the time with no problems.

Wanted to do a space bucket with COBs but not quite up to learning that skill set.

Finally! Someone who wants to use good lights in a space bucket. If you make a light trap at the top. You could use a big 200-250mm pc fan to exhaust that heat.

#1 Sorry I didn't get it. Isn't the driver working less with 3 than with 5 Cobs?

#2 Yap, I'm aware that venting the bucket is a major concern. In my other setup I have 85W leds strips on a plastic bucket, with two fans I can easily keep temperatures in the 23C-26C range. This time, using an aluminium bucket, plus COBs with the heatsink on the exterior of the bucket will make it even easier, I hope.
What if you have your plants a little closer than 6 inches? Bleach? Your Veros are delivering half the output my 1212s will, but that's a good indicator.

What do you picture as light trap? I will have one fan on the bottom blowing air, the cover of the bucket is slightly lifted and lets the hot air escape. It works well in my current set up.

What is the size of a 11galon?Maybe a 1818 or 1812 at 80w active Cooled with a good 120degree lens?

I may try something on a 300L 1,2m tall plastic tonel with a 1812 @1200ma. heatsink on top of the lid, so led inside and heatsink outside the tonel...

50cm height, 40cm diameter. I could go a little bigger, but didn't find anything suitable for the job.
I will use 1212 since these are cheaper and easy to find in EU.
Yap, heatsink outside the tonel, that's the thing! For space bucket growers COBs are fantastic for this reason, the majority of the heat produced stays outside of the growing space.

Use a large garbage bin?

Metacanna said:

What if you have your plants a little closer than 6 inches? Bleach? Your Veros are delivering half the output my 1212s will, but that's a good indicator.

Click to expand...

Am using a 6 inch tall tub the plant is in, stacked on top of two empty tubs in a 24 inch tall space. Already a bit top heavy and it's the plants job to get as close as it finds comfortable. So far, being that close hasn't caused any issues, but they don't stay at that level more than a week, dropping down to continue upward progress.

Since you've done bucket before, I think it's worth investing a bit and seeing how it works out.
(But results need to be compared to other bucket grows of similar wattage)

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/122220411061

220L supersonic warhead bucket

lol

I'm struggling choosing the right driver for me. So, there's the HGL240-C1400 that will work but there are these chinese 20-39V 1500mA drivers for 6$ each on ebay. I would need 5, one per COB, still would cost one third of a single MW. 30$ 5 chinese drivers vs 100$ MW driver. Both with shipping.

I wouldn't mind to pay the extra and get better quality but there are a few other things I'm considering, tell me if you agree.

I'm sure many of you who have built COB lights have changed the original configuration a few times and like to run some crazy tests that might not be optimal for plant growth. Having this in mind I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have 5 separated drivers so I could make changes more easily, it would be better to learn, test, optimize if I have them separated. It seems people here is using mainly huge heatsinks with 3 or 4 COBs on each, for me that's a no-no as I like things more manageable, I imagine the hassle it must be every time it is necessary to take the lights out, transport them, maintenance etc.

I need your 2 cents here based on your experience. Is my ideia of separated chineses drivers completely stupid?
I know everyone is using MW in sake of efficiency, I'm adding a few more aspects into the picture.

Baura said:

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/122220411061

220L supersonic warhead bucket

lol

Click to expand...

Nahh, that would take too much space. You need a bin with wider top and narrow bottom, helps during maintenance.

Something like this could work for me too:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Curver-Dustbin-With-Metal-Clip-Lid-70L-Outdoor-Bins-BuilderS-Buckets-/231459265804?hash=item35e40c1d0c:g:T3cAAOSwnDZUEx5O

I would need to paint the interior white but has the dimensions I was looking for.

I have seen people using 200-300L bins as space buckets, in my opinion doesn't worth the hassle. For the volume it takes, I guess there are better options.

Have they got those drivers in 700 or 1000mA versions? If you're going individual COB method.
If you are handy enough mounting them go cheap (knowing you'll go MW eventually)

As far as the really big barrels go... if you can't reach to soil level with an arm from the top, it's too big. You might as well go with a tent or growbox approach and cut an access panel in the side...

Thought space buckets were stacked to let you separate for maintenance.

I found these drivers, 1500mA, 20V-39V:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282128772783?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=581092074256&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-10W-20W-30W-50W-Power-Supply-Constant-Current-LED-Driver-AC-85-265V-/301737733358?var=&hash=item4640f86cee:m:m6xKBXS5fOw_q-FJdSyki2g

I found some drivers running at 600mA, but that current is too low for a 5 COBs setup.

I wonder if this kind of chinese drivers have been tested side by side with the more communly used MW. The price difference is too significant to ignore. I guess majority of our appliances at home have crappy chinese components as well

MW are Asian made too. Taiwan, but the point is you get what you pay for. If you wanted separate drivers consider Meanwell LPC or PLM. There are other quality brands but no name drivers aren't going to do you good in the long run.

I ran an array of almost 40 PLM drivers. They have 2 year warranties. I ran them for 3 years, no failures.

As chinese crap, I mean, what ebay sellers usually have. If they can build space stations, I'm sure they can build decent drivers if they wish.

I could go with LPC but that would be a bad deal compared to HLG series. 5 units of LPC60 cost the same as a single HLG240, LPC series have 85% efficiency vs 94%, plastic case vs metal case, 2 years warranty vs 7 years warranty, no dimming vs dimming.

For 3$ I can get a 50W 1400mA driver without casing, or 6$ with casing. Having in mind the low price, I could buy 2 or 3 spare drivers just in case one dies.

An aliexpress listing that offers 2 driver versions, what they call "2 year" and "5 year", with side by side pics...cheap drivers can:
1) be less efficent
2) be less resilient
3) create electronic/line noise
4) blow up

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LED-Driver-Adapter-Light-LED-Power-Supply-Lighting-Transformer-1W-3W-5W-10W-20W-30W-36W/32756673848.html

I have some cheap drivers and some quality drivers and use both... just plan accordingly

Cool.
I ordered one of those cheap 50W 1500mA PCB drivers bundled with a 50W COB for 4$. I won't discard the possibility of using them in the future until I run some tests. If not good enough, it can be used for veg... clones, seeds, etc.

How do you run your cheap drivers? Just mix them in the tent and hope for the best? Other applications?

Are you currently using any drivers from the link you sent?

Metacanna said:

Cool.
I ordered one of those cheap 50W 1500mA PCB drivers bundled with a 50W COB for 4$. I won't discard the possibility of using them in the future until I run some tests. If not good enough, it can be used for veg... clones, seeds, etc.

How do you run your cheap drivers? Just mix them in the tent and hope for the best? Other applications?

Are you currently using any drivers from the link you sent?

Click to expand...

I say go for it! The amount of hours we're likely to put on them before we upgrade to something else is far less then their usable life. As with any electronics, just double check everything for safety, and keep everything as cool as possible. Of course, you'll want to be extra careful where you place that driver.

Im using a crappy chinese driver pulled from a Roleadro for my veg light. single 50w 1.2a pushing one 1212 4000k on a 140mmx70mm round heatsink. works like a champ!

Metacanna said:

How do you run your cheap drivers? Just mix them in the tent and hope for the best? Other applications?

Are you currently using any drivers from the link you sent?

Click to expand...

I'm constantly moving things around. Right now I've got a meanwell in the flower cab, and cheapo in the veg. I do always have one of those temperature sensitive automatic fire extinguishers in the cab though just to make sure my place doesn't burn down. I have not used the drivers from the link - that was just for illustrations sake to point out that there are definite differences in quality in the price points.

Huh, I've used a lot of these crappy drivers for testing pourposes and in household lights and most of them burns out in less than a half year.
They use cheapest components just to build it as cheap as possible. And they have totally confusing standards.
Some sellers telling me the silver cased drivers are 2years and the gold drivers are 5years but in fact non of them last longer as a few month, LOL!
Better take a HLG-120H-C700B to drive the COB's now and later when you move into a bigger area(4' x 2') take another one.

Another thing I like to mention is that you can easily get bleaching issues with COB's@45-50w. 18"-24" is needed to avoid stress. I would drive them lower @350-500mA and maybe support them with some Bridgelux EB series or Samsung H- or M-series stripes as side lights like in your old 5630 bucket!
This way you can grow up to 4-8" under the lid without bleaching and get bigger fruits from the lower branches.
BTW,
if you take 3x 1212 COB's for the lid and 5x 560mm Samsung H-Series strips for the sides you could connect all of them in series on one HLG-120H-C700B. Dimmable, max. ~150w total!