Spend my money, all blues or diamond series?

randomseed

randomseed

Active Member
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
Since you're looking at the extreme veg models then im assuming you only intend on using them for vegging. In that case i'd roll with the all blue model since it's cheaper. The diamonds have a spectrum switch so you can run a veg mode alone but it wont be pushing out 100w in that mode, less. If you think you may ever want to add a flowering led then id get the diamond. I have a diamond, an extreme flower, and a couple of their spotlights, and they all perform very well. You won't go wrong with any of advanced's lights. It's just do you want the option to bloom or not?
 
randomseed

randomseed

Active Member
puffenuff said:
Since you're looking at the extreme veg models then im assuming you only intend on using them for vegging. In that case i'd roll with the all blue model since it's cheaper. The diamonds have a spectrum switch so you can run a veg mode alone but it wont be pushing out 100w in that mode, less. If you think you may ever want to add a flowering led then id get the diamond. I have a diamond, an extreme flower, and a couple of their spotlights, and they all perform very well. You won't go wrong with any of advanced's lights. It's just do you want the option to bloom or not?
Click to expand...
No plans on using these smaller led for anything other then veg.
You'd have to tear my HPS's out of my cold dead hands ;-)
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
Wait till after the new year, my new light looks very similar to Advanced diamond (same case) but differing spectrum, however not switch-able as I think that is a waste of time because my design is for extreme flower(but will also veg very good) and very good price too.
 
anotherdaymusic

anotherdaymusic

Well-Known Member
I have the 100w diamond series but its in my flowering cab. I would go with the blue if you are just in for veg, but the diamond series gave me some insane node spacing like no other. I can only imagine what all blue would do in veg... Advanced is pretty much the shit from what I have been reading. I wonder how it compares to the blackstars everyone is using.
 
F

fossil22

Member
I would suggest doing a little more research on LEDs before you pull the trigger on another light. Blackstars are junk, the light panels you buy from Ebay are junk, Advanced uses a generic lens which is better, but is still behind in technology and uses a standard spectrum, I also think that packing the lights so close together creates heat which speeds up deterioration.. Check out Apache, Haight, or Hydro-Grow for an actual LED light that works well and will actually last. LEDs are getting bad raps because of all the junk and poor designs that are out there right now, but LEDs ARE the future. Plasmas provide an adjustable spectrum, but uses more elec and are too expensive and dont last as long, old school HPS uses too much electricity not to mention you have to vent for heat control, replace bulbs and you still only have a limited spectrum. Im using a Hydro-Grow Penatrator Pro (a little more expensive than the Advanced) and its working better than my 600W HPS ever did and I never have to turn on the A/C as the light runs at no more than 90 degrees, not to mention it only uses around 200w total with a Par output that equals if not surpasses my 600W HPS. They use an advanced spectrum, an optcial grade PMMA Acrylic lens, and run the diodes at far less than rated for longer life and less emission deterioration and the light is of modular design, so if anything goes wrong, they can just send you a replacement part and your light is never fully down, which would be a huge problem for most of us. Oh, did I mention the advanced spectrum provided me with a lightning fast Veg, AND is flowering better than my HPS did with no switch?? Honestly, who wants to replace a light with a bunch of other lights?? Get a GOOD LED and dont waste your money on multiple lights, it kind of defeats the purpose of going LED..
 
anotherdaymusic

anotherdaymusic

Well-Known Member
The Diamond series out performs the hydro grow led from personal experience, but I understand if your not led savy yet. Im not really sure how you think advanced is on the same level as ebay led's but ok lol..
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
fossil22 said:
I would suggest doing a little more research on LEDs before you pull the trigger on another light. Blackstars are junk, the light panels you buy from Ebay are junk, Advanced uses a generic lens which is better, but is still behind in technology and uses a standard spectrum, I also think that packing the lights so close together creates heat which speeds up deterioration.. Check out Apache, Haight, or Hydro-Grow for an actual LED light that works well and will actually last. LEDs are getting bad raps because of all the junk and poor designs that are out there right now, but LEDs ARE the future. Plasmas provide an adjustable spectrum, but uses more elec and are too expensive and dont last as long, old school HPS uses too much electricity not to mention you have to vent for heat control, replace bulbs and you still only have a limited spectrum. Im using a Hydro-Grow Penatrator Pro (a little more expensive than the Advanced) and its working better than my 600W HPS ever did and I never have to turn on the A/C as the light runs at no more than 90 degrees, not to mention it only uses around 200w total with a Par output that equals if not surpasses my 600W HPS. They use an advanced spectrum, an optcial grade PMMA Acrylic lens, and run the diodes at far less than rated for longer life and less emission deterioration and the light is of modular design, so if anything goes wrong, they can just send you a replacement part and your light is never fully down, which would be a huge problem for most of us. Oh, did I mention the advanced spectrum provided me with a lightning fast Veg, AND is flowering better than my HPS did with no switch?? Honestly, who wants to replace a light with a bunch of other lights?? Get a GOOD LED and dont waste your money on multiple lights, it kind of defeats the purpose of going LED..
Click to expand...
Fossil, appreciate the info but you should chill out on trying to give other companies bad reps besides the lights youre currently using. The op asked specifically about advanced...advanced puts out good quality lights, I know because I use them.
 
F

fossil22

Member
Oh, Im not trying to give advanced a bad rap at all, and I may not personally own one, but my co-op has used Advanced among others, Advanced has a descent light and Im glad they are finally using descent Lenses. When I decided to switch over to LED Advanced was the front leader until I started reading University, Independent Labs and even NASA research. The Spectrum still needs work, and in my opinion they are putting LEDs too close together and running them at 97% which will cause a more rapid deterioration of the diodes. Im not knocking them, just saying there is better available. The problem is the LED grow light technology is still emerging, my only suggestion is to do a little more research, maybe off something other then the manufactures advertisements and or the experience of a few growers who have only tried a cpl of different style LEDs. The LEDs tyou bought last year are not the ones you buy today, same goes for next year, so in my humble opinion I would rather be ahead of the curve. I only suggested Hydro-Grow because that was my choice, Im sure there are other companies that are putting out high quality lights as well, we have tested Haight, Apache, Lighthouse, Advanced, BlackDog, Blackstar, and Kessil. Was just sharing our research results...
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
What did you read that made you think Advanced's spectrum still needs work? Can you provide some specifics in respect to advanced running their leds at 97%...this is all news to me.
 
F

fossil22

Member
anotherdaymusic said:
The Diamond series out performs the hydro grow led from personal experience, but I understand if your not led savy yet. Im not really sure how you think advanced is on the same level as ebay led's but ok lol..
Click to expand...
The new Diamond series does out perform Hydro-Grows 3 year old entry level LEDs, but take a look at the new Penetrator-Pro series or even just the mid-line models... I wasnt trying to be an advertisement for Hydro-Grow, there are other high quality LEDs available as I mentioned in my original post. I was just using them as an example. We have gone through great expense and research switching our co-op over to LEDs, believe me!! and Im sure its not over as things will change over the next few year drastically. I was just sharing our experience over the last cpl years.
 
F

fossil22

Member
Check out the University of Washingtons comparison tests. I believe Haight and Apache has comparison tests as well. As far as Spectrum goes, you can find a ton of information online and independent test labs using green wavelengths, which only a few grow light Mfg are using now. Jeez! I didnt mean to offend the Advanced fans out there. Most LEDs today are run at 90-97% compacity, they do this to squeeze out all the light they can from the diode in order to get a better rating. I may off on the percentage by a point or two with Advanced, but with the Diodes they are using and the power consumption compared with what they rate the light at, its pretty obvious. You may want to call and ask them directly, thats what we did...
 
F

fossil22

Member
Last one, I promise! We found that LEDs that have switchable spectrums are not using the spectrum to its full potential. I mean does the sun switch from blue to red?? Does a plant grow under incandescent, sure it does, but not to its full potential. Plants use light wavelenghts, most of them, but at different rates. Our reasoning behind this is if I am fat, then I should reduce my fat intake, but no fat at all is not good either. I know it sounds basic, but I would rather the plant choose what it needs to use rather than force feed it, ya know?? Again, just our opinion. And I would love to hear more about others research on this subject, we are all still learning...
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
fossil22 said:
Check out the University of Washingtons comparison tests. I believe Haight and Apache has comparison tests as well. As far as Spectrum goes, you can find a ton of information online and independent test labs using green wavelengths, which only a few grow light Mfg are using now. Jeez! I didnt mean to offend the Advanced fans out there. Most LEDs today are run at 90-97% compacity, they do this to squeeze out all the light they can from the diode in order to get a better rating. I may off on the percentage by a point or two with Advanced, but with the Diodes they are using and the power consumption compared with what they rate the light at, its pretty obvious. You may want to call and ask them directly, thats what we did...
Click to expand...
So if a light's average power draw is 185w, and it contains 100 count 3w leds, each led is running at over 90% capacity? Math was never my strong point, help me figure this out.
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
fossil22 said:
Well, first off, 3W LEDs are actually only 2W, but wait.... Im just a layman, here is a good place to start educating yourself on LEDs and how the diodes work.
http://www.myhydroponicgardening.com/the-cannabis-growers-guide-to-led-grow-lights-1w-versus-3w-and-higher/

There is tons of info out there if you go looking...
Click to expand...
That link didn't say anywhere that 3w leds are actually only 2w, this is also news to me...are you sure about that and can you point me to somewhere this is published?...or do you mean that 3w leds only have 2x higher par output than 1w instead of 3x like it says in that link you gave?

I'm specifically asking you to tell me how you came to the conclusion that Advanced's panels run their leds at +90% capacity as you claim they do. I provided you with the metrics and my math says they run nowhere close to 90% capacity.

I don't know why I'm having a hard time understanding where you're coming from in your posts...one of us obviously has our led information wrong here and I'm trying to work through this with you. Please don't tell me to go out and find the answers myself that you are claiming to already have...just share the knowledge brother!
 
F

fossil22

Member
Ok, well I was hoping not to get into a long debate and Im not the techy of my group, but I will try and give you some references. 1W Leds are typically driven at 350mA and 3W are driven at 700mA. mA are the amount of amperage the item will draw in an hour. Why the Mfgs call 700mA drawing diodes 3W is unknown to me, especially when you consider its only 2x the par value as well.

An advertiser puts it like this: In the world of LED Grow Lights, the most common LED chips are 1W and 3W diodes. The labeling of these diodes however, confuses most people as they expect the name of the product to match its power consumption. With LEDs however, this is not always the case. The wattage of a LED is determined by the amperage they are driven at, with 1W LEDs driven at 350mA, and 3W LEDs driven at 700mA. Despite the fact that 3W LEDs are driven at double the amperage of a 1W, and normally consume only 2W of actual power, LED manufacturers have labeled them a 3W. It’s easy to ask yourself “then why did LED manufacturers name these LEDs 3W instead of 2W?” Perhaps it is simply a marketing trick, or just a label meant to confuse us. Whatever the reason it is important to note that anything labeled a 3W LED, is by all intents and purposes a 2W LED.

How did I come to the conclusion that Advanced was running there 3W diodes at 700mA?? I called and asked them brother, maybe you can ask them why they dont provide that information on their website. Like I said, most Grow light Mfgs are running the diodes at the Mfg recommended mA for optimum rating.

Im not trying to avoid answering the question, and Im not a professor of electronics either, nor did I save all the information I have read. I try to be thorough but Im not a mad scientist with grant providers to prove my work too. Im was just saying that the questions you are asking me are better answered by reading them yourself and not having to deal with LED grown weed smoker such as myself ;) You can go to Mfg site like Cree's http://cree.com/products/led_docs.asp to learn about Leds and power consumption and Pars, I hate to refer to Hydro-Grow again, but they do have a page on it that may explain it better. http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Comparing-LEDs-W8.aspx you can then verify their statements by going to the LED Mfg of your choice website and hitting up their spec pages.
 
anotherdaymusic

anotherdaymusic

Well-Known Member
Dude also he is just using it for veg bro, that advanced would be more than enough and you will have wicked node spacing. Its your money, I would def research, but I mean the one he is talking about was in my top three as well, but a 40 yr old dude uses his advanced over his penetrator, and his grow is quite ridiculous. Do what you want, the diamond rocks my socks. better than t5's, flouros, and hps (because of heat for me).
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
fossil22 said:
Ok, well I was hoping not to get into a long debate and Im not the techy of my group, but I will try and give you some references. 1W Leds are typically driven at 350mA and 3W are driven at 700mA. mA are the amount of amperage the item will draw in an hour. Why the Mfgs call 700mA drawing diodes 3W is unknown to me, especially when you consider its only 2x the par value as well.

An advertiser puts it like this: In the world of LED Grow Lights, the most common LED chips are 1W and 3W diodes. The labeling of these diodes however, confuses most people as they expect the name of the product to match its power consumption. With LEDs however, this is not always the case. The wattage of a LED is determined by the amperage they are driven at, with 1W LEDs driven at 350mA, and 3W LEDs driven at 700mA. Despite the fact that 3W LEDs are driven at double the amperage of a 1W, and normally consume only 2W of actual power, LED manufacturers have labeled them a 3W. It’s easy to ask yourself “then why did LED manufacturers name these LEDs 3W instead of 2W?” Perhaps it is simply a marketing trick, or just a label meant to confuse us. Whatever the reason it is important to note that anything labeled a 3W LED, is by all intents and purposes a 2W LED.

How did I come to the conclusion that Advanced was running there 3W diodes at 700mA?? I called and asked them brother, maybe you can ask them why they dont provide that information on their website. Like I said, most Grow light Mfgs are running the diodes at the Mfg recommended mA for optimum rating.

Im not trying to avoid answering the question, and Im not a professor of electronics either, nor did I save all the information I have read. I try to be thorough but Im not a mad scientist with grant providers to prove my work too. Im was just saying that the questions you are asking me are better answered by reading them yourself and not having to deal with LED grown weed smoker such as myself ;) You can go to Mfg site like Cree's http://cree.com/products/led_docs.asp to learn about Leds and power consumption and Pars, I hate to refer to Hydro-Grow again, but they do have a page on it that may explain it better. http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Comparing-LEDs-W8.aspx you can then verify their statements by going to the LED Mfg of your choice website and hitting up their spec pages.
Click to expand...
No debating here man! Just trying to learn and make sure we're getting correct information out there. I'm not an engineer or anything either haha. From what I've learned, and maybe I didn't learn correct information, is that they call a 3W a 3w because it has the capability to run at that strength, albeit for a limited time, and the reason they're pushing out at 2w is because it increases the lifespan and decreases the burnout and failure rate. The fact that companies are now starting to push out +2w out of newer and larger 3w leds tells me that things are going in the right direction because last year they weren't running that high and were using smaller leds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top