"Thats too bad"?? - Five sailors injured, 10 missing after U.S. Navy destroyer collides with a merch

greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/another-us-navy-destroyer-collides-with-a-merchant-ship-rescue-efforts-underway/2017/08/20/c42f15b2-8602-11e7-9ce7-9e175d8953fa_story.html?utm_term=.daf5bc603340

President Trump, returning to the White House on Sunday night, responded to reporters’ questions about the collision by saying: “That’s too bad.”

WTF?

Note: the ship wasn't named after senator john mcain. It was named after his father and grandfather, both admirals in wwII......
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I just read about this, I hope all of the sailors are found safe and sound.
 
greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
dstroy said:
I just read about this, I hope all of the sailors are found safe and sound.
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Sadly, that isn't likely. While I've never been in the navy, I am familiar with ships, and when crew is listed as "Missing" after a collision it's usually because either they went overboard or are trapped behind watertight hatches closed during flooding.

For the commander in chief to dismiss the likely loss of life of military personnel so blithely is unprecedented. It is callous and impersonal. It is selfish.

It is not presidential.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
Sadly, that isn't likely. While I've never been in the navy, I am familiar with ships, and when crew is listed as "Missing" after a collision it's usually because either they went overboard or are trapped behind watertight hatches closed during flooding.

For the commander in chief to dismiss the likely loss of life of military personnel so blithely is unprecedented. It is callous and impersonal. It is selfish.

It is not presidential.
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He's been doing a lot of unpresedential things lately.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
Sadly, that isn't likely. While I've never been in the navy, I am familiar with ships, and when crew is listed as "Missing" after a collision it's usually because either they went overboard or are trapped behind watertight hatches closed during flooding.

For the commander in chief to dismiss the likely loss of life of military personnel so blithely is unprecedented. It is callous and impersonal. It is selfish.

It is not presidential.
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It is, however, perfectly in keeping with the rest of his character... Shallow enough to ground a rubber duckie.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/another-us-navy-destroyer-collides-with-a-merchant-ship-rescue-efforts-underway/2017/08/20/c42f15b2-8602-11e7-9ce7-9e175d8953fa_story.html?utm_term=.daf5bc603340

President Trump, returning to the White House on Sunday night, responded to reporters’ questions about the collision by saying: “That’s too bad.”

WTF?

Note: the ship wasn't named after senator john mcain. It was named after his father and grandfather, both admirals in wwII......
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This is getting to be a habit with the US Navy.

A billion dollar floating electronics nest can't see merchant ships?

If I were in the chain of command I'd be screaming blue bloody murder right now! It's not like they didn't get a wake-up call about this very kind of incident just a fucking month ago!

Herr Chumpster Fuhrer can't be bothered, of course.
 
greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
This is getting to be a habit with the US Navy.

A billion dollar floating electronics nest can't see merchant ships?

If I were in the chain of command I'd be screaming blue bloody murder right now! It's not like they didn't get a wake-up call about this very kind of incident just a fucking month ago!

Herr Chumpster Fuhrer can't be bothered, of course.
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I have a simple 36 foot fishing boat with cots (commercial off the shelf) electronics. I can track 20 ships on radar (MARPA) and my system will warn me miles away if a collision is imminent (either MARPA or AIS). I take it over 100 miles offshore across very busy shipping channels. I've never had an issue with large ships (small stupidly commanded ships are a different issue, but still no collisions).

Either they are using trump electronics and nobody in command is allowed to change course or fire a weapon , or maybe ships are intentionally turning into the warships in tight channels and there are no rules of engagement to respond.

No matter, "too bad" is not an appropriate response.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
I have a simple 36 foot fishing boat with cots (commercial off the shelf) electronics. I can track 20 ships on radar (MARPA) and my system will warn me miles away if a collision is imminent (either MARPA or AIS). I take it over 100 miles offshore across very busy shipping channels. I've never had an issue with large ships (small stupidly commanded ships are a different issue, but still no collisions).

Either they are using trump electronics and nobody in command is allowed to change course or fire a weapon , or maybe ships are intentionally turning into the warships in tight channels and there are no rules of engagement to respond.

No matter, "too bad" is not an appropriate response.
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They've got AIS too, and the navigation radars are commercial radars pretty much. No reason for them to hit anything unless a lot of people weren't paying attention all at the same time.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
I have a simple 36 foot fishing boat with cots (commercial off the shelf) electronics. I can track 20 ships on radar (MARPA) and my system will warn me miles away if a collision is imminent (either MARPA or AIS). I take it over 100 miles offshore across very busy shipping channels. I've never had an issue with large ships (small stupidly commanded ships are a different issue, but still no collisions).

Either they are using trump electronics and nobody in command is allowed to change course or fire a weapon , or maybe ships are intentionally turning into the warships in tight channels and there are no rules of engagement to respond.

No matter, "too bad" is not an appropriate response.
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Would one need both AIS and MARPA or is one or the other sufficient? What's the advantage to both?
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Well...

If the shoe fits?
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Right, it's just sad is all. I really hope they find everyone safe this time. I feel sorry for everyone on board, when shit like this happens to your shipmates who are basically family it sticks with you forever.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dstroy said:
Right, it's just sad is all. I really hope they find everyone safe this time. I feel sorry for everyone on board, when shit like this happens to your shipmates who are basically family it sticks with you forever.
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Considering it's exactly the same class of ship that was involved last time and it's a very similar (even suspiciously so) incident, I think the safe bet is that they'll find those 'missing' sailors in the same place they found them last time; in flooded sleeping quarters below the waterline.

I don't wish that to be the case, certainly- it would be wonderful if they were found alive, but I fear that's unlikely.

Once is an anomaly and twice is a coincidence. Is there some kind of blind spot with this class of ship, either in terms of the electronics suite getting confused with a target so close or perhaps an operations or procedural issue where no one is watching home plate?

I think we'll be hearing about a safety stand down soon.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Considering it's exactly the same class of shop that was involved last time and it's a very similar (even suspiciously do) incident, I think the safe bet is that they'll find those 'missing' sailors in the same place they found them last time; in flooded sleeping quarters below the waterline.

I don't wish that to be the case, certainly- it would be wonderful if they were found alive, but I fear that's unlikely.

Once is an anomaly and twice is a coincidence. Is there some kind of blind spot with this class of ship, either in terms of the electronics suite getting confused with a target so close or perhaps an operations or procedural issue where no one is watching home plate?

I think we'll be hearing about a safety stand down soon.
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Well on a destroyer back aft there aren't any berthings. It's all storage, hazmat is down there, bosun store room, aft ic, aft steering. The only one of those spaces manned at that time would have been hazmat, and aft steering if they were having steering problems.

What I read this ship got hit aft.

The last ship got hit amidships, right in the middle of the superstructure.

There are no electronic surface blind spots if you have competent watchstanders..
There are no visual surface blind spots if you have competent lookouts.

I don't know what visibility was, or what the sea state was. There are a lot of variables that I don't know.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dstroy said:
Well on a destroyer back aft there aren't any berthings. It's all storage, hazmat is down there, bosun store room, aft ic, aft steering. The only one of those spaces manned at that time would have been hazmat, and aft steering if they were having steering problems.

What I read this ship got hit aft.

The last ship got hit amidships, right in the middle of the superstructure.

There are no electronic surface blind spots if you have competent watchstanders..
There are no visual surface blind spots if you have competent lookouts.

I don't know what visibility was, or what the sea state was. There are a lot of variables that I don't know.
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It wouldn't be the first time there was a glaring and basic problem with a zillion dollar weapons system. Can't rule it out at this point.

I hope you're right and they're wet but alive.

The orange idiot is tying his own noose at this point. He just needs a liiiiiittle more rope...
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
There are two berthings that I remember that are close to the fantail, aft chiefs berthing and overflow. There's a gym back there too that I forgot about, and the armory is close but on the port side.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
It wouldn't be the first time there was a glaring and basic problem with a zillion dollar weapons system. Can't rule it out at this point.

I hope you're right and they're wet but alive.

The orange idiot is tying his own noose at this point. He just needs a liiiiiittle more rope...
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Well, it would have to have been like 3 separate radars used for navigation, and depending on the threat/ warning there would have been a lot more people manning combat so more eyes on screens.

That's a lot of layers to fail. It's probably the human element.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dstroy said:
Well, it would have to have been like 3 separate radars used for navigation, and depending on the threat/ warning there would have been a lot more people manning combat so more eyes on screens.

That's a lot of layers to fail. It's probably the human element.
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I'm thinking a safety stand down is coming- and appropriate.

Another hard working bunch of sailors whose careers are fucked and (likely) dead mates on their conscience.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
I just saw a picture of the damage, where it's located.

Directly above the damage is the torpedo magazine, and below it is the armory. Below the armory is overflow berthing. Tool issue is a little bit more forward of the armory.

Across the passageway from tool issue is ship's laundry, where a couple people are working pretty much around the clock.

Unless they were doing shit with the torpedoes or checking mag temps or something there wouldn't have been anyone in the torp mag.

There was almost certainly someone in the armory, ships laundry, and maybe tool issue.

Hopefully no one was in overflow berthing, they usually put tech reps, visitors, and sometimes new crew has to stay down there until a rack becomes available.
 
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