The Bloom Boom Room (Back to Basics)

If i were to grow vert how would i do it?Would it b e the most effective use of space,light and air?
Just thinking how i would do it.Id use a vert bulb with a parabolic hood mounted someplace above the light but high enough to allow the light spread from the hood.
Plants would be set under the hood and bulb to use the space under the bulb and staggered upward in a stadium out from their .The plants would be pulled over and died down the allow the side branch's to grow up allowing more bud sites on TERMINAL shoots,instead of side branchs that do not contain as much energy for bud development.Tying the plant side ways will pump more hormones to the side branch's acting as terminal shoots.Plants would be under the bulb and all around the bulb, canopy management,trimming would be done to the lower branch's forming nothing but terminal shoots going up .Everything would be covered in orca with curtains hung behind the plants on the outside to reflect as much light back in as possible.
That being said..You will lose the intensity and focus of the bulb.Like a flash light.The light hits a reflective cone intensifying it and focusing the beam where you want it to go.
Some flash lights you can get even ajust the spread and intensity of the beam of light.
This is what a hood does for your light..it focus's the beam of light and intensify's the light into the target area.
The whole idea of a vert grow is to maximize the use of space and increase production? or am i wrong? apparently im wrong?
But yea..his shit is fucked up..from go to whoa he has been giving them way to much nitrogen enriched food.
The sides of his branchs are burned up. the light is not contained,.Use of space is poor at best.
And he asked for advice,
Would you all have me lie to the man and tell him his shit is great?
So far everything i have told the man makes logical sense. correct?
Drek has never done anything to me to cause me to fuck the dude over with bad opinions and advice.Matter of fact he has been very gracious.
He can take my advice or not as he sees fit.But at least someone needs to say hay dude..There is a better way.
There are people on here..good, bad, intentional or otherwise giving out BAD advice to people and they are hurting their plants.Like blasting nitrogen to your plants all the way through bloom.
Does anyone here think that the nutritional needs of the plant do not change through its growing cycle?
Then what would make you think blasting it with nitrogen all the way through bloom is a good thing?
Come on people you need to learn to smell bull shit when you see it.If it does not sound logical it probably isnt..If it sounds logical and has logic behind the opinion or basis of fact..it probably is.

Go read a couple bare bulb vert grows and then tell me they are inefficient. It's actually one of the easiest was to get 1 gpw and up. When using a reflector , the light from half the bulb must travel up and then back down into the plants. Which is a big waste of light. In a vert setup you drop the bulb directly in the middle which allows light from all sides of the bulb to blast the plant. I think you should go back to the horizontal growing side. As far as nitrogen during flowering I have no problem giving my plants N while flowering but in the last 2-3 weeks you should stop using N and start to lower the amount you feed until the last day or two then jutst use plain water.

Well the net round the climate is more controlled and I don't have a leaky hydro system. Like I said it is all about gaining experience from past grows. I am an amateur at growing to say the best. But I will not abandon a growing style because I don't hit 1gpw or whatever. But as far as vertical growing goes I think it is very effective. But all and all I got some awesome smoking OGR White Fire out of the grow!

As long as your happy that's all that matter bro! It just bugs me when ppl say vert growing is inefficient lol

Purpsdro420 said:

As long as your happy that's all that matter bro! It just bugs me when ppl say vert growing is inefficient lol

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I totally understand where you are coming from. I will post some pics tonight to show how I improved from my past grow. You grow and you learn. OAN: I think I have a mutant DNA Limited Snowcap plant. It looks pretty weird. I just cant figure out what is up with it exactly. Lol

Purpsdro420 said:

Go read a couple bare bulb vert grows and then tell me they are inefficient. It's actually one of the easiest was to get 1 gpw and up. When using a reflector , the light from half the bulb must travel up and then back down into the plants. Which is a big waste of light. In a vert setup you drop the bulb directly in the middle which allows light from all sides of the bulb to blast the plant. I think you should go back to the horizontal growing side. As far as nitrogen during flowering I have no problem giving my plants N while flowering but in the last 2-3 weeks you should stop using N and start to lower the amount you feed until the last day or two then jutst use plain water.

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Your not blasting the plant with nothing concentrated a vert bulb.The light in a hood is contained and bounced back with intensity toward the plants.The hoods reflectors are Close to the light Reflecting it back down with diffusion into the plants before the light travels far enough from the bulb to lose its intensity.
So according to your logic, not mine a flood light puts out more light than a focused beam of light?Does that sound right to you?
What it does it put out a arc of light that is not focused or intense.
By your logic german dimple alum with a over the light mirror polished stainless steel reflector that puts out around 95% reflection is losing massive light intensity?
I strongly disagree based on the laws of logic.I would argue that the glass in hoods steal more light and spectrum away than the alum or orca reflector.
I just built a 5ft by 5 ft parabolic hood with a vert bulb in it sitting above my plants in VEG,.No glass of course.I do not like glass.Thats just me.I dont like it because it cuts lumens and spectrum.
What it does is focus a nice diffused light Down into the plants over a large area.It works really well for vegetative plants.
Matter of fact its not too different from your vert grow.
It however does not focus the intensity of the light to make large top colas on TERMINAL stems.Or top colas.
The top cola is where the plant pumps its hormones and water directly too.This is part of the reason why top colas are always preferred to smoke right?They are also the most potent and flavorful,correct?Matter of fact they are so preferred many growers will grow nothing but them.Even if you were to pull your plant over sideways and let the lateral branch's grow up you would be forcing a slowing of vertical growth and growing dozens of top colas being pumped up each and everyone of them with more hormones better light and air to become larger better buds.
A plant does not need even at the start of bloom a N rate over 7 or 8.All you are doing because the plant does not need nor will use that much N after the first two weeks is cause the plant to store it within itself not being used so you can smoke it latter..
Some growers who use dynogrow Bloom add some dynogrow Grow to it in a % so it will be higher in N to grow with.These guys get OK results
The foilage pro is to high in N.
There are a pile of companys that make a good base nute system for marijuana.They are called Base nutes for a reason.That means they will grow a plant basic.
Almost all of them will have more than enough N to run your plants from start to finish with no problem and a proper draw down at the end of bloom.
It would be difficult to argue that the floor space under the bulb not being used is a efficient use of space.
A unvented bulb with a parabolic hood would allow this space to be used.
Plants under it could be topped into multi colas or pulled over and tied down to make terminal colas out of the side branch's plants around it would be stepped up and topped or tied down probably in this type of grow.It would be a stadium grow i think you would call it.
I get twelve plants under a 1000 watt or a 600 watt in a 5x5 area. How many plants can you fit around your bulb?
A friend of mine uses a 16 plant aero set up in a tent under 1 600.
If a guy built a spiral like a spring..a 6 ft circle spiraling inward like a funnel or a cone to a res located in the center, aero of course with a light hung in the center a guy could probably fit more plants in the same space growing small single cola plants would be ignorant productive.
The first turn of the 6 ft circle would be 6x3.14 or PI.or 18 ft round.
Has anyone done this?If so how has it worked?
There would be limits as to the type of plant you could grow in it though.

Purps is right though based on the inverse square law. Every foot light travels its half as intense as the last foot, and so on.

So the distance from the bulb to the reflector and back to the level of the light probably looses a good 50% of its intensity. Even with a 95% reflective surface. Even with a 99.99999% reflective surface it cant stop the distance light travels and the amount of light lost per unit of travel.

Vert set ups limit the distance from bulb to leaf and turn the whole plant into a center cola because they get a more even dispersion of light from top leaf to bottom leaf.

If your top colas are better tasting and more potent than any other ones on your plant then you got some lighting/nute issues because even the popcorn nugs on my shit are as tasty and potent as the top nugs. Just not as dense.

So your saying the plant does not push its energy to the top and hormones for development through the terminal stem to the top?
Lumens tested from bulbs are 1 ft off of the bulb.The sooner you turn and direct the light the more intense the light will be when it hits the reflector and more intense it is when it bounces off..
I think loosing 50% of the light off of the reflector is complete bull shit.If you hit a reflector with 100K lumens and it reflects back 95K lumens is not a 50% loss of light orca film will reflect 99% and spectrum.Losing lighting a ft off the bulb is reasonable the further away from the bulb the more light it loses.
Matter of fact if you were able to focus a hood or reflector with the right material and magnification of it i would think it would be possible to start a fire with the beam.Just like you can with the sun light and a magnifying glass directing the beam.When you set a fire with sun light and a magnifying lens are you making the sun brighter? Nope.you are just focusing the light to a intense beam.
The same as a 1000 watt bulb has more canopy penetration than a 600 watt bulb.BUT the 600 can be kept closer to the canopy with less heat.(a 1000 still out preforms the 600)
Almost all branch's that produce fluff bud are chopped off to throw the energy to the top colas of my plants grown in a scrog.I only keep the top 1.5 ft of the plant normally. depending on plant.
There are over 100 top colas making a sea of colas in the screen 3 600 watt bulb under super cobra hoods ebb and grow over lapping light pattern.When finished it makes a almost level carpet of top colas.
Ive been around 5 years setting up this one room and am not done yet.There is always something to improve.Nothing is wasted No light is let to escape if i can help it.No air is not utilized NOTHING is wasted.A little ajustment and improvement ..another ..then another. ALL of it may not seem like much but when put together it adds up.
I tell you what, im going to get a light meter..The one i want is rather expensive like 600 bucks.I should be able to take a reading 1.5 ft off the bulbs and see what exactly is going on.Ive been kind of putting off buying one so this gives me another justification to spend more money.
I am looking for a new place to grow and have not purchased one stick of equipment for it yet.
The reason is i dont know what kind of place i can find.More often than not the room itself will dictate to you what style to grow in that is best for the particular situation.
Honestly id like to find something with ten ft ceilings In a basement.

^^^^^^ Just agree to disagree and go troll somewhere else ^^^^^^

max420thc said:

So your saying the plant does not push its energy to the top and hormones for development through the terminal stem to the top?

I think loosing 50% of the light off of the reflector is complete bull shit.If you hit a reflector with 100K lumens and it reflects back 95K lumens is not a 50% loss of light orca film will reflect 99% and spectrum.Losing lighting a ft off the bulb is reasonable the further away from the bulb the more light it loses.

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They do push energy and hormones to the top through the terminal stem but that does not mean that they should be any tastier/potent than branches a few nodes down. Compared to the lowest popcorn nugs there will be some loss in potency maybe but if you keep your light close enough they should be right on par just not as dense. That is the main reason for vert growing so nugs from top to bottom are just as dense as the rest.

And loosing 50% is a slight over estimation. Its realistically like ~40%. The vert style grow increases the area of your lights dispersion without increasing the foot print.

And it doesnt matter how reflective a surface is. It is a LAW of science that light loses 50% of its power every foot it travels. Regardless of which direction, what its reflecting off of, how powerful it is, etc... Its not a "law of logic" that you think is true.

So lets break it down into a math problem. If you have a 6" cooltube and the bulb is in the midle of it the light would have to travel roughly 3" to the reflector (depending on the given angle. Then it would have to travel a minimum of 3" back to the same height the bulb is at. So far that a total of 6" of travel so the light has already lost 25% of its original lumens. Now if you let that light travel another 12" to where lumen readings are taken at youve lost another 50% of the already 25% reduced light. Not to mention the 5% loss from the 95% reflector. And lets assume theres a little dust on your reflector and add another 3%-5%. Even without that you are losing a considerable amount of light.

So when you measure with a light meter it wont be proving too much because in a vert configuration at 1 foot away the reading should be the same all the way around the bulb making for a larger surface area than a horizontal set up. Because once you move off center of the horizontal set up you will get a fluctuation in your reading.

Its really simple science. I grow horizontal myself but when someones arguing science the facts need to be laid down.

This says it all really.

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There may be points in a horizontal grow where the light is more intense than a vert grow but the average difference in lumens will be much different as well as the average lumens. It should be the same around the whole circle where as the horizontal grow will dramatically drop off the further you get from the middle.

On the third space you have a round grow room but for some reason it doesnt look like who ever done the math subtracted the loss of space in the middle.
Most bulbs are located within two inch's from a mirror polished stainless steel reflector(over the top of the bulb).If it hit the reflector with 100K lumens and lost 1% It would start as the light travels away from the reflector at that point losing lumens as distance increases away from the bulb/reflector.The bulb within 3 inch's of the reflector is being hit harder with more light than the 1 ft lumen rating.So assuming the lumens hitting the reflector with even more force than the rated lumens of the bulbs It still a ft off the reflector where the rated lumens should be measured.
A tester will indicate what the intensity of the light is at and at what distance.It should give me a good idea of the spread of light also.
According to the medical marijuana growers bible(a reference tool for me)Not written in stone.But page 184 says quote:A horizontal lamp yields up to 40% with hood than a lamp burning in vert. position.
To be fair the book also says a vert. grow is One of the most productive gardens per sq ft.
Then on another page it says its junk for flower.That vert bulbs are good for vegetative growth and not flower.
If i were just trying to prove my opinions i would have left those out and not told you about it.
I have a two lamp system set up for nothing but experimenting with.Lamps, hoods, nutes different plants etc.
If i get a opinion that vert or stadium is more productive.I will have to be shown it though or proven it. Ill set the test system up for a vert stadium.Run it and see what it does.
The cost of setting up a aero 10 ft long by 5 ft wide V made out of 4x4 plastic fence material would work well.Plants spaced one ft apart in it would give me about fifty plants.They would have to be put in from clone.All of the plants would be single cola..short with no side branching.
Is there anyone on here who has a grow similar to this i can look at that is grown correctly?This would give me a general idea before i wasted allot of time.
Another thing i have thought of is a upside down pyramid. The top being a five ft square. It would hold around 20 plants then the next one being a 4 ft square stepped down from it holding around another 16 plants then a 3 ft square holding another 12 plants from there dropping off into a res located in the center of the bottom of the inverted pyramid.

Even with the bottom unused it has over 2x the area of a standard horizontal grow. Not to mention the light penetrates easier because its coming form the side vs the top.

I understand what youre saying but light loses lumens for all the distance it travels. No matter how small. Regardless of original lumens of the bulb.

I measured my hood and bulb and from center of the bulb to reflector going straight up is just under 3 inches.

I would like to see youre comparison grow though when it you start it up.

The ladies are doing well.

Im just running thought through my head about how the best way about doing it would be.
I looked at another vert grow on here. The guy done a nice job in a tent.He also had a few extra LEDs hung above the plant to help out.
The best most effective grows i have seen on here have been grown in a tent.The reason why is they maximize the use of the enviro and waste no light.Even the light several feet from the reflectors still bounce back into the grow.It may not seem like much but it is, and it does make a difference.The orca paper makes a huge difference.You can see the tests for it on youtube if you want.I didnt used to be a big believer in mylar or panda film. I tried it and didnt see much effect.The orca however is a game changer.
I use it to great effect to simulate the light of inside of a tent by putting it on the floor and draping curtains made with it around the sides of the plants and light spread to bounce it back in.
I see a lack of reflective surfaces behind the plants in many of these vert. grows i have been looking at as a large downfall of many of their grows.
They are wasting light by not reflecting it back into the plants from behind that plant.
The gentleman was kind enough to include some of his weights.I know its not a true side by side comparison but even my horrible non productive strains were outproducing his plants.And i have more of them under a lamp.So my current method of growing is out producing his method of growing.From the comments made he is supposed to have one of the best vert grows around.
He was noticing how his plants were not fading at the end of the run and staying dark green.All of his plants were dark green at finish. I didnt say a damn thing.But was very glad he noticed something was not quite right.Also he was running plants into bud over or around 70 days or more.These issues are caused by to much nitrogen.
The logic behind a stadium is sound.You are just utilizing vertical space for plant production that was not utilized before.
By staggering spaces upward you are exposing more surface area of the plant for light exposure.
The three sure ways of increasing production i know of is..more light..more plants or larger plants with larger roots.

This would be cheap and easy to stair case something like this into a stadium.

Ebb & Grow
This is currently the system i use now.Each 55 gallon barrel will support 48 two gallon pods.12 under a lamp.The control buckets are junk for that reason i would not recommend it and would at this time go with a titan.But no major sweat im going to build a custom control center to control 4 systems off of the same timer that will be a good digital electronic timer.With good float switch's.

Like I said. You have to learn from the past! These are from today. The bud shots are from different plants in week 4 of flower. The Snowcap strain I have is a mutant. The nodes don't alternate on any branch. It is weird. I shall get some pics up later. Any questions please feel free to ask.

I will be hanging up a 600w light today. That should really get the grow room going. My goal is to be able to harvest every 2-3 weeks. I'm sure that the mutant pheno of Snowcap I have will not be grown again.

I had a plant like that snow cap. I loved it because every clone i took from it was basically already topped because it didnt have alternating nodes. This stopped after the 3rd generation of cloning though.

That is interesting. My plant is growing beyond weird. It is the only plant in the room that the pistils are changing color on. I been checking it to see if it hermed on me but I have not seen any balls yet.

This is the new set up. I'm going to be adding more panda film to the walls and floor.

For some reason the 600w seems a lot brighter than my bare bulb 1000w. I wonder if the cool tube is restricting that much light. I'm going bare bulb on both today. The heat can be used for sure.