The failure of the drug war ...

big buddy said:

Vi, hope you do have a british sports car, we could show america a thing or two about proper racing/sports cars, most american cars corner like a boat! Automatic? drive stick or drive nothing! ok il let you have the viper well done, you got any other sports cars over there?

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Uhhh ... the Corvette isn't too shabby.

Vi

big buddy said:

just one more thing skunk- this was reported in the guardian- according to U.N. figures since 2002 GDP is higher in ireland than britain- UK GDP per capita=26,000 Ireland GDP per capita=36,000. meaning that ireland is richer, is that considerably worse?

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Here's where you implied Ireland was richer than England...

AND?- look at the GDP figures- what is your point? Ireland is a separate entity, a sovereign state, NORTHERN Ireland is not!

sorry vi but corvettes just dont cut it

big buddy said:

AND?- look at the GDP figures- what is your point? Ireland is a separate entity, a sovereign state, NORTHERN Ireland is not!

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My point is that you said Ireland was richer than England... then you denied saying it... I'm not interested in figures... only the female kind.

I had to go back to page one and check the title of the thread. Yep, there it is 'The drug war is a failure'.
Gentle Men, Ladies, Please, lets be reason able.....ok?
Some where in the middle an article I found of interest pointed out that the advocate for the legalization was actually intelligent and this seemed to suprize him.
My wife has been to Ireland although I don't know if it was Norther Ireland. She said they were nice people. And we have been on airplanes with layovers in Great Britian, we thought they were nice people. We have hosted foreign exchange students from all over the world and most of them are nice people. We have been to a few other countries and everywhere we have been there have been nice people.
To'Win the War', which is when the war on drugs is truly a failure, we have to be nice people. To grow Marijuana successfully you have to do a fair amount of research. To 'Win the war' we must also do a fair amount of research.
Come on Stay With Me Now Im Getting 'wound up'.
Do you have a Lottery in your country? How did 'they' get it passed? What were the arguments for it? And against? Now I don't usually use Mr. Clinton
as a source but...Its THe Economy Stupid. Sorry but I have to agree with skunk, paying 50 euros for any amount less than 1/4 oz. is hell. Still with me?Good! But I'm about to change horses.
What reasonable person given all the facts about Marijuana would not want it to be legal? Or maybe more to the point, what industries could possibly suffer economic damage if Marijauna use, Possesion, and Manufacturing became legal.
Well, there is a liqour industry, and a Prescription Drug industry and there is a Health industry. Can anyone thing of any reasons any of them may not want to see Marijuana Legalized. And lets not forget the most powerful industry of all "The Government" industry. Is this getting too long?
Lets see if we can take them 0ne at a time.
First the liqour industry, and I do know that in some countries you smoke in pubs. Do you think there could possible be a drop in Liqour sales if Marijuana were legal. You know, where you just walk in to your local liqour store and buy, oh say 7 grams of quality skunk for 25 euros. Kinda boogles the mind, Doesn't it? Are you, through the government industry, paying for any type of program to get drunk drivers off the road. Are you ever exposed to any form of advertisment that show how cool, hip, with it, you are if you go somewhere loud and get 'Shit faced'. Any sporting events sponsord by Guiness? My wife and I once went bar hopping in Spain on March the Seventeenth, boy, people in Spain sure can celebrate a St. Paddy's Day. We still have the Guiness jesters hat to prove it.
How can your government make you pay to stop people from drinking and driving? Its the economy!! I mean really, look at all the good 'They' do. Tim Magraws concert tour was sponsered by Bud Light.
'They' pay a lot of the upfront cost, through advertising dollars of course, they are not bribes, so politicians can come out and get thier faces in front of you, and tell you all the wonderful things that our sponsor has done to make this great family day possible. Sound familiour?

If it was legal more people would grow it and it's value would go down. Whether it is legal or not it still goes back into the economy in one way or another. To legalise it would force many dealers to find another source of income.

I had to go back to page one and check the title of the thread. Yep, there it is 'The drug war is a failure'.
Gentle Men, Ladies, Please, lets be reason able.....ok?
Some where in the middle, an article I found of interest, pointed out that the advocate for the legalization was actually intelligent and this seemed to suprize him.
My wife has been to Ireland although I don't know if it was Norther Ireland. She said they were nice people. And we have been on airplanes with layovers in Great Britian, we thought they were nice people. We have hosted foreign exchange students from all over the world and most of them are nice people. We have been to a few other countries and everywhere we have been there have been nice people.
To'Win the War', which is when the war on drugs is truly a failure, we have to be nice people. To grow Marijuana successfully you have to do a fair amount of research. To 'Win the war' we must also do a fair amount of research.
Come on Stay With Me Now Im Getting 'wound up'.

Do you have a Lottery in your country? How did 'they' get it passed? What were the arguments for it? And against? Now I don't usually use Mr. Clinton
as a source but...Its THe Economy Stupid. Sorry but I have to agree with skunk, paying 50 euros for any amount less than 1/4 oz. is hell. Still with me?Good! But I'm about to change horses.
What reasonable person given all the facts about Marijuana would not want it to be legal? Or maybe more to the point, what industries could possibly suffer economic damage if Marijauna use, Possesion, and Manufacturing became legal.
Well, there is a liqour industry, and a Prescription Drug industry and there is a Health industry. Can anyone thing of any reasons any of them may not want to see Marijuana Legalized. And lets not forget the most powerful industry of all "The Government" industry. Is this getting too long?
Lets see if we can take them 0ne at a time.
First the liqour industry, and I do know that in some countries you smoke in pubs. Do you think there could possible be a drop in Liqour sales if Marijuana were legal. You know, where you just walk in to your local liqour store and buy, oh say 7 grams of quality skunk for 25 euros. Kinda boogles the mind, Doesn't it? Are you, through the government industry, paying for any type of program to get drunk drivers off the road. Are you ever exposed to any form of advertisment that show how cool, hip, with it, you are if you go somewhere loud and get 'Shit faced'. Any sporting events sponsord by Guiness? My wife and I once went bar hopping in Spain on March the Seventeenth, boy, people in Spain sure can celebrate a St. Paddy's Day. We still have the Guiness jesters hat to prove it.
How can your government make you pay to stop people from drinking and driving? Its the economy!! I mean really, look at all the good 'They' do. Tim Magraws concert tour was sponsered by Bud Light.
'They' pay a lot of the upfront cost, through advertising dollars of course, they are not bribes, so politicians can come out and get thier faces in front of you, and tell you all the wonderful things that our sponsor has done to make this great family day possible. Sound familiour? Wow, someone with a vested interest in making sure Marijuana is not legalized.
I forget who has it but someone has the joke about the stop sign at the bottom of thier posts, I know you have all seen it and laughed. As a matter of fact I just stopped at a green light, waiting for the traffic to clear, just a few weeks ago. I got some really wierd looks, but I didn't care. It was funny to me, so I laughed and got the hell out of there when the light turned green again. I know you have been there.
That shit ain't funny man. Studies have been conducted, and comedians have written entire sketches, that show drivers that are high are safer drivers than drunk drivers. Remeber that scene in Tommy Boy, when they got stopped by the police. For going 5 miles per hour. Now thats funny.
What seems to happen is this. When you are high, ya know, you know you are high. Deja vu all over again.Seems obvious. But you don't know when you are drunk?
Could it be you are just more aggressive than normal? Just give me a cup of coffee, I be fine. Sonabitch think he can pass me like that, I'll show him a thing or two....
Second, no more valium? And did you see the Bob Dole ED ad? The drug industry is so powerful in the US, they are trying to stop our senior citizens from driving across the border to Cananda so they can purchase the same drug the could buy here. Why? Could it be because there isn't as much profit?
Third, the health industry. No one has ever died from a Marijuana overdose. As a matter of fact, it would be physically impossible to do so. Are we beginning to see a thread here?
Well, I have to go get some 'real work' done now. More later if I gt=et response.

depends entirely on how you legalize it. And do you think a large pecentage of the population derives thier income from Marijuana sales?

What's the percentage of the population involved in selling cannabis got to do with anything? I would say that a small percentage of cannabis smokers are involved in the sale of it... but I still don't see your point. I was merely explaining why some cannabis users would not want to see cannabis legalised. It'll never happen anyway, at least not until we get a more liberalised Government. Our Governments are into making money, and they will not be able to do that if they legalised cannabis... People would grow their own rather than buy it from the Government.

The only reason Holland can get away with it is through tourism, in other words Holland is about the only place you can go if you want to legally smoke and grow cannabis.

Ok I guess I missed your point. Your point was that some cannabis users don't want tot see it legalized because the price would go down?
And one of my points for getting cannais use legalized would be to tax it similar to the way alcohol is taxed at least in the United States. The amount of maximum tax would have to be clearly stated (people in the state of Michigan proposed no more than 35% in thier referendum).
People are growing thier own now, at least I am, aren't you. That would increase some if it were legal, but do you believe that would be a large amount of people, if instead of growing it you went down to your corner store and bought it for half the price?

It wouldn't cost you half the price... how do you know how much it would cost? If you look at alcohol it is far cheaper to make your own. The CONVENIENCE of buying in a store or bar costs you much extra. Even in Holland (where their cafes rely heavily on tourism) the price of weed is about the same, if not more than you pay on the street. Our Governments want to make too much money, I'd say it would still be cheaper to grow your own.

The question I would have is: why include the government in the equasion by taxing it? Cannabis is nothing more than a simple weed that anyone can grow in their back yard. The Creator put it on earth for enjoyment and medicinal uses. Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it say: Thou shalt pay a tax on weeds growing in your back yard.

Vi

To begin with the fact that you can grow it cheaper than you can buy it makes you want to grow it now even though it is illegal. Are we in the Majority. If we are then how come weed is hard to find. Not everyone will grow thier own. Right?
Could there possibly be some reasonable method that we could come up with that gives the 'Government' industry what they want, Money, and do so in a way that would make it possible for you and I, to legally grow quality Marijuana for those folks that won't take the time to grow thier own .

I'm sorry Vi. Maybe I should have attacked this from a different stand point. I was just getting started . The reason to allow taxing on Marijuana sales is really simple. It's the only thing that will make the rest of the people understand.
If I were to tell you that I coulkd show you how to wipe out the National Debt would you be willing to listen?

I'd be interested in that, sure.

Vi

Ok so can we agree that thee are wsome Industries that will not be happy if Marijuana were legal.?
In the US we are spending somewhere in the neighbor hood of $18,000,000,000.00 for the war on drugs. In addition to that national outlay, State, and Local Governments also have budgets for dealing with this problem. It costs in the neighbor hood of $23,000.00 to house each inmate for one year, our courts are over loaded, and over half of the arrests are for drug related offenses.
I don't know what you would expect to pay for an oz of weed if you ever had to buy any but lets just suppose it was $100.00. And now we make it legal using the existing State Controlled Liqour distribution system for the retail sales. 33% goes to the state in the form of taxes, for specific purposes. 33% goes to the retailer that sells it to the retail customer and 33% goes to me, the grower. Of course I fell like I should get more than that but lets keep it simple.

And lets pretend that for every argument you could raise against legalizing Marijuana, We could show, using government studys from as far back as the peanut farmer that show that its use is no more harmful than tobacco use and in many ways superior to the use of alcohol.

The only thing the vast majority of politicians care about is getting voted back into office. There are millions of pot smokers in the country. If the majority would just write a simple letter to their congressman and senator telling them that in order to get anymore votes, they had better reschedule marijuana to a class "C" drug ... things would change. The problem is ... I'll bet the vast majority on this site, or any other marijuana site have no idea who their representatives are.

In addition to the above, if every marijuana smoker would do their civic duty and serve on juries, we could turn the law around real fast. All we need is one sympathic juror serving on a marijuana case to "vote" not guilty and the case would be thrown out of court. But, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of stoners try their very best to get out of jury duty. Also, in order to serve on a jury, one must be a registered voter. How many registered voters do we have present here?

Like Pogo said: "I have seen the enemy ... and its us!"

Vi

You are right of course. You can even be denied collegeif you admit to a Marijuana felony, while rapist and burglurs get scholerships.
The problem is most of the Marijuana busts are for simple possesion and will never be in front of a jury. I have been called to jury duty a few times and I always went.
If you have read books on Marijuana Growing you have probably read that good growers are good citizens in every other sense. they don't want to stand out as different. They avoid suspicion that way.
Do you really believe Bill didn't inhale?
What does the lottery support in your state? I bet on education. 'They' sold it to us because 50% of the money was going to pay for education. Right? If you could get all of the people that ever smoked Marijuana to write to thier congress persons, it would have a tremendous impact.
I think it would have more impact if you could say, " We are tired of paying for the war on drugs, it hasn't changed a thing in terms of the percentage of the population that uses drugs regularlly. and its legalization could bring in much needed revenue.
Its use is safer for the general public than the use of alcohol, although with some of the discussions I've had today, I'm beginning to wonder, because stoned people are less aggressive. We don't need any new buracracy to administer the controls just the existing State liqour commissions.
We will save BILLIONS OF DOLLARS and collect BILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!
You know what they say, a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon it can add up to real money. We can stop prison over crowding leaving plenty of room for the real criminals and talk about taking a bite out of crime .