The far red thread

[churchhaze]

It's definitely been working. I have the relay hooked up now, and so far it's been clicking on reliably.

It would be nice if someone would market this (or an improved version obviously, since I just based this on parts laying around). I remember @Eraserhead talking about how he was looking into a 730nm system for the future.. He could probably take this and make it 1 chip, no problem. Using the counter guod suggested or getting a tiny microcontroller to do it.

The concept is very easy, but it took a long time for the concept to be realized on a DIY level. It's simple, but I have 120V wires soldered onto a strip board. What I need is to have this thing potted! lol (just learned what that is)

 

[AquariusPanta]

The 555 timer-based optical switch that @churchhaze designed on this very thread is simple to implement, reliable, and wholly suitable for this purpose Turns on whenever the lights turn off...simple and effective.

I'm good with designing and problem solving but I have no experience with any small stuff like with what Church crafted; I'd need someone to hold my hand through the process to obtain my beginning experience with circuitry.

If it was something I was after, I'd look into it more so but I'm a small grower and the mechanical/digital timer solution isn't a serious financial investment and has worked in the past.

I do think the design, with far red turning on after lights turn off, is super ideal !!

 

[AquariusPanta]

It's definitely been working. I have the relay hooked up now, and so far it's been clicking on reliably.

It would be nice if someone would market this (or an improved version obviously, since I just based this on parts laying around). I remember @Eraserhead talking about how he was looking into a 730nm system for the future.. He could probably take this and make it 1 chip, no problem. Using the counter guod suggested or getting a tiny microcontroller to do it.

The concept is very easy, but it took a long time for the concept to be realized on a DIY level. It's simple, but I have 120V wires soldered onto a strip board. What I need is to have this thing potted! lol (just learned what that is)

I would be so appreciative if you broke down what you covered in pages four and five just a little more, including parts, maybe in a blog, thread or video. My prototypes weren't designed to carry far red functionality BUT the best design has yet to have been plotted and finalized so if I can get past the initial intimidation of charting across new territory (in my mind), then I'd seriously consider implementing this approach before unloading the final product.

 

[churchhaze]

I'm good with designing and problem solving but I have no experience with any small stuff like with what Church crafted; I'd need someone to hold my hand through the process to obtain my beginning experience with circuitry.

If it was something I was after, I'd look into it more so but I'm a small grower and the mechanical/digital timer solution isn't a serious financial investment and has worked in the past.

I do think the design, with far red turning on after lights turn off, is super ideal !!

Yeah, and it's not exactly something you can really hold someone's hands through. I'm still working out a few kinks in the design.. Something like this really shouldn't be expensive or hard to get premade, it's just that nobody is using a good solution yet. it will seem obvious in a few years when everyone's using the simplest idea. (it even seems obvious now, but hey, nobody is using that obvious idea yet, right?)

I'm having some issues with it now, so it's definitely not bug free yet. What was a 9 minute delay, is now "as long as it's dark". I think the far-red turning off is causing it to turn itself back on... or something else broke while changing/moving something. (this would make the design not viable actually, and I'd have to back away from light sensing.)

 

[guod]

I believe ..

...there was too much "Church" in the "Haze"

Parts of the circuit standing on shaky ground.

btw.
R3 is way to high for a good signal

 

[Positivity]

Should start thinking about it more. I don't really need one though, a seperate timer is a easy way to do it for a small area. I can see where in big areas it would be perfect integrated

Aren't there solar landscape lights that come on at dark?

Use a led/s that will burn through the power quicker...just a thought..

There ya go...switch the leds to far red and mount wherever you need them. Lights out...far red on..

http://www.wayfairsupply.com/NorthernInternational-Solar-Floodlight-GL23836BK12-YUD1015.html



I don't know if they run at lights on though, sure there are some that have dark sensors..whatever there called. Or how bright it'd be...would need to shop around

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Should start thinking about it more. I don't really need one though, a seperate timer is a easy way to do it for a small area. I can see where in big areas it would be perfect integrated

Aren't there solar landscape lights that come on at dark?

Use a led/s that will burn through the power quicker...just a thought..

smart man^^^^^ ..........easy to mod one of those

 

[AquariusPanta]

The hunt for the ideal far red-apparatus continues...

 

[Positivity]

Might be enough to just input a little far red into the spectrum anyhow...cmh doesnt need a trigger.

The hunt for the ideal far red-apparatus continues...

Funny thing is the spectrum might just a need a little more far red always on..

 

[churchhaze]

I believe ..

...there was too much "Church" in the "Haze"

Parts of the circuit standing on shaky ground.
View attachment 3412505
btw.
R3 is way to high for a good signal

The value of R3 is what determines whether the lighting is considered 'ON' or 'OFF'. When I tried your suggested range of 0-10k, I had to shine a flashlight directly at the photocell to get the output of the inverter to be "off". When I replaced it with a 100k resistor, the output of the inverter is reliably "OFF" with most ambient lighting, and "ON" when the lights are turned out.

I really like your input, even when it seems like it's out of context (I already knew what a schmitt trigger was), but I see no reason why you approach me the way you do. Looking at the picture of the physical device on stripboard, that chip was clearly grounded. I am human and make mistakes.

I took the board out of the growing box to test it some more, because it was working flawlessly before I put it into production. I just put it in a cardboard box, closed it, and the relay came on for the right time period, then turned off. I opened the box later and the light was out. I closed the box and the light came back on, then turned out. It still works. Every time I put my finger on the photocell, the inverter output becomes 5V, and when I remove it, it becomes 0V.. I get the same results turning on and off the lights.

I think it was a fluke the 730nm lights were on when I opened my box this morning. It probably had to do with the way I opened the box, letting some light in, then closing it, then opening it again. The only other explanation is that the there was a lag in the 730nm array turning off, which triggered the timer to start again. I'm starting to think the former was the case. (making the design somewhat non-viable)

 

[churchhaze]

I have 5V supply to power the fans only when the lights are on. I could just use that as the input to determine if the lights are on or not. Then it wouldn't be an issue if the user was to open their tent, then close it, then open it again.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Might be enough to just input a little far red into the spectrum anyhow...cmh doesnt need a trigger.


Funny thing is the spectrum might just a need a little more far red always on..

Put down the bong man... you're not making any damn sense!

The value of R3 is what determines whether the lighting is considered 'ON' or 'OFF'. When I tried your suggested range of 0-10k, I had to shine a flashlight directly at the photocell to get the output of the inverter to be "off". When I replaced it with a 100k resistor, the output of the inverter is reliably "OFF" with most ambient lighting, and "ON" when the lights are turned out.

I really like your input, even when it seems like it's out of context (I already knew what a schmitt trigger was), but I see no reason why you approach me the way you do. Looking at the picture of the physical device on stripboard, that chip was clearly grounded. I am human and make mistakes.

I took the board out of the growing box to test it some more, because it was working flawlessly before I put it into production. I just put it in a cardboard box, closed it, and the relay came on for the right time period, then turned off. I opened the box later and the light was out. I closed the box and the light came back on, then turned out. It still works. Every time I put my finger on the photocell, the inverter output becomes 5V, and when I remove it, it becomes 0V.. I get the same results turning on and off the lights.

I think it was a fluke the 730nm lights were on when I opened my box this morning. It probably had to do with the way I opened the box, letting some light in, then closing it, then opening it again. The only other explanation is that the there was a lag in the 730nm array turning off, which triggered the timer to start again. I'm starting to think the former was the case. (making the design somewhat non-viable)

Some say he's just a machine... others say he's got no soul...

All joking aside, I hope you figure out what the ordeal was for you, as I find the troubleshooting process to be the most enjoyable stage when playing with new toys.

 

[churchhaze]

Should start thinking about it more. I don't really need one though, a seperate timer is a easy way to do it for a small area. I can see where in big areas it would be perfect integrated

Aren't there solar landscape lights that come on at dark?

Use a led/s that will burn through the power quicker...just a thought..

There ya go...switch the leds to far red and mount wherever you need them. Lights out...far red on..

http://www.wayfairsupply.com/NorthernInternational-Solar-Floodlight-GL23836BK12-YUD1015.html

View attachment 3412511

I don't know if they run at lights on though, sure there are some that have dark sensors..whatever there called. Or how bright it'd be...would need to shop around

This is the type of thing that should not be handled as DIY imo. Most companies should be able to produce a board like mine, only smaller, and simpler, and mass produce it on the cheap. You should be able to pick something like this up for less than the price of another timer. It's just a matter of some company investing in a design.

The reason I'm working on this is to keep myself busy/entertained. It's something I've wanted, yet saw nobody stepping up to the plate. A problem and a solution. Are there other solutions? Sure, but I do think a specialized "turn on the 730nm after the lights go out" timer would be better than a separate timer, assuming they're around the same price. Remember when I was asking around if someone was using some sort of special timing device? I would have just bought that. I really do not like using multiple timers, especially with 3 flowering tents (that would mean 6 timers, 3 chances of going out of sync).

 

[churchhaze]

I have a new idea for an invention. The light leak detector!! it buzzes when it detects a light leak during the lights out period! ehhh????

Then... it could respond by using the far-red array to try to counter-act it, while it calls for help!

 

[medicinehuman]

This is the type of thing that should not be handled as DIY imo. Most companies should be able to produce a board like mine, only smaller, cheaper, and simpler, and mass produce it on the cheap. You should be able to pick something like this up for less than the price of another timer. It's just a matter of some company investing in a design.

The reason I'm working on this is to keep myself busy/entertained. It's something I've wanted, yet saw nobody stepping up to the plate. A problem and a solution. Are there other solutions? Sure, but I do think a specialized "turn off after the lights go out" timer would be better than a separate timer, assuming they're around the same price. Remember when I was asking around if someone was using some sort of special timing device? I would have just bought that. I really do not like using multiple timers, especially with 3 flowering tents (that would mean 6 timers, 3 chances of going out of sync).

I got tired of too many timers so I picked up one of these on ebay for a reasonable price. Two timers in one works good so far, they are staying in sync. http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/specialty-equipment/247-dual-analog-timer-power-center.htm

 

[Positivity]

That timer looks good, might have to try it, been having issues with a few digital hydrofarms now.

If someone offered something for a good price like that, i'd probably try it church. Maybe i'll try putting my typhon reef arduino in my next light, $50 part but it does have a lot of nice functions.

Diy reef typhon thread, a nice finished unit...that'd be slick

 

[stardustsailor]

Another path here ...



From the AC line that powers the main LED/COB driver(s) ,
parallel connected a Normally Closed Relay*

( * AC triggered ,or else if in case of a DC triggered, one can use the 12 VDC fan power supply ,
or even instead - in case of passive cooled designs - i.e. an old cellphone charger ( 3,3 VDC - 12 VDC ) ,to trigger that NC relay. <= ! Exercise caution in such parallel AC connection between LED driver and cellphone charger .!)

Then the NC relay -via a mains socket in back of a case ,or directly connected ,
will power a 12 VDC PSU and a LM 555 timer (monostable or bistable mode ) ,
which will control another Normally Open relay .

When the main lights are ON ( i.e COBs ) ,the first NC relay , is triggered
and the timer circuit thus the FR driver remain OFF .

When the light will go OFF ,the the relay closes back to NC state ,
and the "case type mains socket ,now is powered .
The 12 VDC PSU is powered ,the monostable (or bistable ) mode LM 555 timer is powered
and the second relay is also powered ,all at the same time ...
Thus ,the FR LEDS switch ON ,for as long the LM 555 timer is programmed to keep the second relay
closed .After the pre-set time period has passed ,the second relay opens and the FR drivers switch OFF .
The circuit remains powered ,but at idle state ,for the rest of the dark period ,dissipating way less than 1 W .
Next "morning " ,when main lights switch ON ,the DC timer circuit switches OFF ,resetting itself .

Anyway ....
Something like this ...
Or something similar ...
Just a "raw "idea ,here ...

Cheers.

(Pic edited two (!) times ...Stoned as ...brick ..Sorry ! )

 

[stardustsailor]

Thing is that LM 555 remains pretty stable and accurate at timing and for long service time ,
when a non-electrolytic capacitor is used for timing .
( Tantalum ,MKT,MKP ,silver mica ,etc )

But ,then due to small capacitance of the rest types of capacitors (other than electrolytic ),
the timing of LM 555 ,can not be of much delay period ...

Neither is suggested to use large timing resistors
( current flowing willl drop ,thus timing sub-circuit will become prone to EMI / RFI noise contamination )
http://www.csgnetwork.com/ne555timer1calc.html

Thus probably couplle of 4017 decade counters can multiply the delay ,by x10 (one 4017 ) or
by 100 ( two 4017 ICs ) or more ( x1000 ,x10000 and so on ) .....

4017 Ic are CMOS ICs and their mother is a slut ...


They need good grounding ,clean signals ( High or Low ,not Floating ) ,and good noise bypassing ...

I will try to upload a circuit using them ...

Cheers.

 

[churchhaze]

Thing is that LM 555 remains pretty stable and accurate at timing and for long service time ,
when a non-electrolytic capacitor is used for timing .
( Tantalum ,MKT,MKP ,silver mica ,etc )

But ,then due to small capacitance of the rest types of capacitors (other than electrolytic ),
the timing of LM 555 ,can not be of much delay period ...

Neither is suggested to use large timing resistors
( current flowing willl drop ,thus timing sub-circuit will become prone to EMI / RFI noise contamination )
http://www.csgnetwork.com/ne555timer1calc.html

Thus probably couplle of 4017 decade counters can multiply the delay ,by x10 (one 4017 ) or
by 100 ( two 4017 ICs ) or more ( x1000 ,x10000 and so on ) .....

4017 Ic are CMOS ICs and their mother is a slut ...


They need good grounding ,clean signals ( High or Low ,not Floating ) ,and good noise bypassing ...

I will try to upload a circuit using them ...

Cheers.

I was afraid that the large capacitor C1 and resistor R1 I'm using would cause issues (like the timer never finishing and being stuck from leakage current in C1 being greater than R1 value), but in practice the delay has been "a few minutes" and never got stuck.

I had a design based on decade counters, binary counters, and some combinational logic. The simulations showed it to work as expected, but I never implemented it like I did this one. I have all the chips needed to, but it seemed to be more complicated than it needed to be. This new one is also a bit overcomplicated, and requires that big capacitor.

 

[churchhaze]

I just realized how silly it sounds that I was opening a box when the main lights were out in the first place. The reason i was doing that is because the main timer wasn't programmed right (set it last night with a new digital timer)... The main light was supposed to be on when I checked, but wasn't. That's why I was opening a box with the lights off in the first place. Sorry, that was very unclear. I guess in normal operation, a user would not open a dark box in the first place.