The Impeachment Trap

tangerinegreen555 said:

Do you believe them?

Because I can think of many things she would make better for them, compared to President Stupid 45.

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I don't believe them, but what many here refuse to address is that they still have a vote.

Mrs Clinton was uninspiring on the 'left' and infuriating to the right and the establishment Democrat apologists seem to think they don't need to make any changes.

Well, I DO think the Left needs to assert itself and again I think things would have been different if Bernie had won the nomination.

He didn't. It wasn't fair, but it's also over and done with. Time to move forward.

Therefore, I'm aligning myself with Progressive political organisations and activists because I feel strongly that they represent the direction our country must go in order to remain competitive- and for those living within it to prosper.

It's not a zero sum game where in order for individuals to do well, major corporations must lose; in fact, our mutual prosperity is intertwined. Destroying America's middle class is destructive to our economy and all those who depend on it.

Pick one or two of the Mark Blyth videos I'm collecting here and watch them;
https://www.rollitup.org/t/mark-blyth-the-economist-whos-making-sense.940121/

He makes a great deal of sense to me, he's using economics to explain what's been going on politically and what some of the solutions to our situation might be.

It's a lot more intelligent than 'the other side sucks, therefore WE don't need to examine our approach' bullshit that I keep getting from establishment Democratic sources.

tangerinegreen555 said:

Buried? She got more votes, it was a fluke.

The Democratic Party represents me (and you) better than the deplorable party of Trump.

And you know that.

Damn, there's an obvious enemy to progress out there and it's not the Democrats.

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To think Russian meddling was limited to and ending the dnc would be short sighted We have a TV station that says all the other media sources are fake.
Meanwhile the world makes up it's own mind.

The erosion of democracies strengthens dictatorships. And President-elect Donald Trump continues to weaken people’s belief in the integrity of the American political system and his own competence in international relations.
http://time.com/4589176/donald-trump-china-communist-party/

ttystikk said:

I don't believe them, but what many here refuse to address is that they still have a vote.

Mrs Clinton was uninspiring on the 'left' and infuriating to the right and the establishment Democrat apologists seem to think they don't need to make any changes.

Well, I DO think the Left needs to assert itself and again I think things would have been different if Bernie had won the nomination.

He didn't. It wasn't fair, but it's also over and done with. Time to move forward.

Therefore, I'm aligning myself with Progressive political organisations and activists because I feel strongly that they represent the direction our country must go in order to remain competitive- and for those living within it to prosper.

It's not a zero sum game where in order for individuals to do well, major corporations must lose; in fact, our mutual prosperity is intertwined. Destroying America's middle class is destructive to our economy and all those who depend on it.

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I've aligned myself with what I believe to be 'progressive political organizations' for the last 45 years.

And that's not a dig or anything, just saying.

tangerinegreen555 said:

I've aligned myself with what I believe to be 'progressive political organizations' for the last 45 years.

And that's not a dig or anything, just saying.

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That's certainly your right and I respect it.

I added this after you quoted my post;
"Pick one or two of the Mark Blyth videos I'm collecting here and watch them;
https://www.rollitup.org/t/mark-blyth-the-economist-whos-making-sense.940121/

He makes a great deal of sense to me, he's using economics to explain what's been going on politically and what some of the solutions to our situation might be.

It's a lot more intelligent than 'the other side sucks, therefore WE don't need to examine our approach' bullshit that I keep getting from establishment Democratic sources."

The plain and simple truth is that I think the Democratic Party has a bad case of arrogance about the opposition and an even worse case of addiction to cash in politics. I don't think blithely continuing to support them without any mechanism of accountability is going to lead anywhere towards the change we need. Rather, they're vested in the status quo.

I think a strong Progressive Movement has the potential to create the impetus for change, change I think is necessary for all of us to survive the changes coming in the world. I think if we don't make these changes, we'll have another Great Depression and more wars, both of which could wreck our collective future.

Permanently.

It's not hard to find places in the country that used to vote Democratic but voted for Trump last fall. Even the Guardian, a British paper, can find them. Here's what they're saying in one of these places;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/19/trump-russia-the-promise-scandal-proof?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

My concern is that the only people who AREN'T listening to them are the Democratic Party itself.

Unclebaldrick said:

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No time for retreat, we must press the battle...that Star Destroyer is disabled! I have an idea...

ttystikk said:

It's not hard to find places in the country that used to vote Democratic but voted for Trump last fall.

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I attribute a lot of that to the never ending desire for 'change', and a slightly depressed voter turnout in a few key areas, helped by Russian interference.

Even if justice Democrats take over tomorrow, they aren't going to win every election. The best team doesn't always win.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia handed Syria to Trump as a gift to Saudi Arabia if they thought they could crush democracy.

tangerinegreen555 said:

I attribute a lot of that to the never ending desire for 'change', and a slightly depressed voter turnout in a few key areas, helped by Russian interference.

Even if justice Democrats take over tomorrow, they aren't going to win every election. The best team doesn't always win.

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Not to mention overstoked fears of brown people with funny religions or cultures.

tangerinegreen555 said:

I attribute a lot of that to the never ending desire for 'change', and a slightly depressed voter turnout in a few key areas, helped by Russian interference.

Even if justice Democrats take over tomorrow, they aren't going to win every election. The best team doesn't always win.

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I'm well aware that the rules of simple statistics will explain counties that shift their votes from one party to the other.

The game plan of any political movement is to cut through this statistical noise with a message that will resonate strongly enough to overwhelm it. Mr Obama ran on a powerful message of hope and change that did this very effectively. Mrs Clinton'smessaging did not. Mr Sanders has a strong logical message that still somehow fails to reach establishment Democrats.

I keep seeing echoes of a similar sentiment everywhere, which goes something like this; 'I voted for party A because they promised change and I believed them- and they didn't deliver. So THIS time, I voted for the other side because, dammit, I want change!'

I see this as evidence that Americans aren't really being given the political choices they want, but they haven't yet taken the reins and demanded their parties adopt the planks and platforms of policies they DO want.

Why? And why does the mainstream of each party react so negatively to the injection of new ideas? I believe it's down to the money involved; both party organizations feel that large amounts of cash are essential to their success and are therefore reluctant to accept ideas their donors might not gladly accept.

The problem with that is the goals of major donors are increasingly at odds with the needs of their rank and file supporters, hence the increasing frustration of the American electorate with the candidates chosen for them by either party.

Just like the American automobile industry of the 1970s, we have oligopoly thinking; the vehicles/candidates on offer are the products of increasingly insular thinking, of what the major players want to sell, as opposed to what the customers want to buy- or actually need.

The explosion in popularity of foreign cars in the late 1970s and onward wasn't magic; it was fresh thinking that delivered vehicles better suited to the needs of the car buying public in terms of efficiency, reliability and ease of operation.

Similarly, I strongly feel that American politics is badly stuck in an 'either/or' mindset which plays far better to the desires of those with millions in donor cash to throw into the fray than those that cash is used to influence for their votes.

Consider my quest for a liberal political alternative narrative to be the modern political equivalent of an outside the oligopoly upstart automaker; I'm trying to shake things up with a fresh version of a 'vehicle' of socioeconomic strategies that better suits the majority of Americans who are fucking fed up with the political equivalent of the 1976 Ford Torino.

Grandpapy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia handed Syria to Trump as a gift to Saudi Arabia if they thought they could crush democracy.

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Of course they would! But the Russians aren't stupid enough to think they can crush democracy, so they'll happily settle for the ability to drive it to destinations more friendly to themselves.

In this context, their activities make much more sense.

Why do I feel like is only Yugo's?

Grandpapy said:

Why do I feel like is only Yugo's?

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America's GDP per capita is about $56,000, one of the top twenty. Those countries with higher figures are much smaller. Unfortunately, this statistic masks the effects of our extreme income inequality, meaning that most of us are driving used beater compacts while a few are driving Rolls Royces and Lamborghinis.

ttystikk said:

I don't believe them, but what many here refuse to address is that they still have a vote.

Mrs Clinton was uninspiring on the 'left' and infuriating to the right and the establishment Democrat apologists seem to think they don't need to make any changes.

Well, I DO think the Left needs to assert itself and again I think things would have been different if Bernie had won the nomination.

He didn't. It wasn't fair, but it's also over and done with. Time to move forward.

Therefore, I'm aligning myself with Progressive political organisations and activists because I feel strongly that they represent the direction our country must go in order to remain competitive- and for those living within it to prosper.

It's not a zero sum game where in order for individuals to do well, major corporations must lose; in fact, our mutual prosperity is intertwined. Destroying America's middle class is destructive to our economy and all those who depend on it.

Pick one or two of the Mark Blyth videos I'm collecting here and watch them;
https://www.rollitup.org/t/mark-blyth-the-economist-whos-making-sense.940121/

He makes a great deal of sense to me, he's using economics to explain what's been going on politically and what some of the solutions to our situation might be.

It's a lot more intelligent than 'the other side sucks, therefore WE don't need to examine our approach' bullshit that I keep getting from establishment Democratic sources.

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You're clueless, she won the vote by a significant margin.

You never mention the EC, only try use Hillary's freak loss as some kind of springboard for your retarded points.

ttystikk said:

The Left is fine. It's the Democratic Party that's doing a shitty job of representing the needs of its constituents.

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The only left is the Democratic party if you want Communism/Socialism you are going to need to move out of America.

cindysid said:

Hilary only got 15mil votes in the primary...Bernie got 12mil. I'm sure that there were some misguided Bernie supporters who voted for Trump also. Many of us voted for Hilary because we had no better choice. Maybe if the Dems had supported Bernie,they could have won. He wasn't nearly as easy a target as she was.

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Most of us voted for Trump because Hillary is a horrible person and there was no hope for Johnson.

tampee said:

Most of us voted for Trump because Hillary is a horrible person and there was no hope for Johnson.

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tampee said:

Most of us voted for Trump because Hillary is a horrible person and there was no hope for Johnson.

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You truly believe that Hilary is a more horrible person than Trump? I'm not thrilled with her either, but there is no comparison that I can imagine that would put him above her. Both of their personalities are lackluster, but I would rather have her than a moronic man child. Are you honestly happy with the way things are going? If so, please take your seat on the short bus.

cindysid said:

You truly believe that Hilary is a more horrible person than Trump? I'm not thrilled with her either, but there is no comparison that I can imagine that would put him above her. Both of their personalities are lackluster, but I would rather have her than a moronic man child. Are you honestly happy with the way things are going? If so, please take your seat on the short bus.

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Hillary Clinton is much worse of a person.

cindysid said:

You truly believe that Hilary is a more horrible person than Trump? I'm not thrilled with her either, but there is no comparison that I can imagine that would put him above her. Both of their personalities are lackluster, but I would rather have her than a moronic man child. Are you honestly happy with the way things are going? If so, please take your seat on the short bus.

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But I'm sure you just wanted war with Iran when in fact the terrorist Ideology comes from Saudi Arabia.