The Official "RIU History" Thread

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I thought it stood on its own. Ruby killed Oswald because he was upset over the assassination. He claimed that Jackie and the kids were on his mind. Like I said, a lot of people would have shot Oswald at that time. It was an upsetting event.
Interesting. Thanks for the info/perspective. I still feel that it was rather convenient that Oswald was dropped like that, but it may well be factual.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Love of country?
LOL. right.
That was a cover up killing. Dead men can't talk.
Kennedy was fucking with and pissed off too many of the wrong people. His fucking with the FED money, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis. The hit was called and it was done, Kennedy had to go and he did. Oswald was just a patsy for the crime. TOO MANY DAMN COVER UPs

here is a good read. http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/UNDchapter30.pdf
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Interesting. Thanks for the info/perspective. I still feel that it was rather convenient that Oswald was dropped like that, but it may well be factual.
I do not dispute the convenience. But it would not have happened if it were not for the incompetence of the Dallas Police. This lax security was investigated thoroughly. They were just doing shit the way they always did - just like the Secret Service at the time. If Oswald had not been capped, the conspiracies would not exist to the extent that they do. But he was - that does not prove a conspiracy. You cannot ignore the obvious motivations of Oswald and Ruby. I just got to the point where the more I learned about the parties involved the harder it came to deny the findings of the Warren Commission.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I do not dispute the convenience. But it would not have happened if it were not for the incompetence of the Dallas Police. This lax security was investigated thoroughly. They were just doing shit the way they always did - just like the Secret Service at the time. If Oswald had not been capped, the conspiracies would not exist to the extent that they do. But he was - that does not prove a conspiracy. You cannot ignore the obvious motivations of Oswald and Ruby. I just got to the point where the more I learned about the parties involved the harder it came to deny the findings of the Warren Commission.
Oswald motivation ? What was that ?
 

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
I spent a decade or two believing in a conspiracy. Read a lot on it. But eventually I realized that this guy did it. He was a twisted dude with megalomaniacial tendencies.

The Warren report looked like a set of encyclopedias. It was 99.7% correct and accurate, they fucked up the timing of the shots. 25 years later, computer animation based on the 9 home movies of the motorcade proved the shots went in a straight line from the 6th floor of the building though Kennedy and Connally.

Oswald tried to kill a right wing retired general named Walker in April with the same rifle.

They figured out it was him after interviewing his wife after the JFK assassination. The Warren Report spends volumes on the life of Oswald. He was not fucking normal, a real creep. He wanted to kill someone and be infamous.

The FBI was watching him after he moved to the Soviet Union and then returned.

Security was lax in 1963 for everybody. People weren't being shot routinely back then. Within 20 years, they were shooting guitar players and popes.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
LOL. right.
That was a cover up killing. Dead men can't talk.
Kennedy was fucking with and pissed off too many of the wrong people. His fucking with the FED money, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis. The hit was called and it was done, Kennedy had to go and he did. Oswald was just a patsy for the crime. TOO MANY DAMN COVER UPs

here is a good read. http://www.und.edu/instruct/jfkconference/UNDchapter30.pdf
I browsed it. The first red flag I saw was the "faked" photo of LHO with the gun. Investigate the photo.

Lee had his wife take it in Spring of 1963. He actually gave a print (nearly identical - taken right before or after the one that is better known) to one of his and Marina's friends and even signed it. He made some sort of comment about how they should keep it as he was going to be famous soon. This was 6 or 7 months before JFK got killed. Lee had already been thinking about using it to assassinate General Edwin Walker, which he probably attempted but hit a window mullion. The friends contacted authorities after the assassination. So despite the fact that the photo in question was found in his home, there was independent verification of its pre-assassination authenticity that is ignored entirely. Unless his friends were in on it along with Ruby, the Dallas Police, Secret Service, other gunmen, etc. Oh, and one of Jack Ruby's strippers, I forgot her.

Can you imagine trying to keep them all quiet?

Oswald was a nut. The motorcade was a gift on a silver platter and ever one of his actions before and after that day show him preparing to shoot Kennedy. And how about after? He guns down Tippet and tries to shoot another cop in the theater. Not the best patsy - or was he?
 
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Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Oswald motivation ? What was that ?
Oswald was a nut. He thought he was an epic individual and wanted everybody to know it. Look at his pathetic defection to Russia. After being told to fuck off he goes in his hotel room and slits his wrists. Then he gets shoved in a backwater of the USSR and ignored by nearly everybody. So he re-defects. He is totally crestfallen when the press ignores him entirely as he expected something along the lines of a hero's welcome - or derision, at least something. But nothing. So he flounders around trying to incite mischief by promoting friendship with Castro in heavily Cuban areas. He does radio interviews even. You should hear them. His wife leaves him. He moves back to Dallas and takes a place in a creepy rooming house. Can you imagine how this is fucking with his head? Finally, his wife's friends get him a menial job in the Dallas Book Depository. Within a couple of weeks, the newspaper publishes the motorcade route (which had not been decided upon until after Oswald's employment began). JFK is going to be driving right past this deranged Marine sniper who has already attempted another assassination and failed. Oops!

How many people would have to be involved in this conspiracy? Dozens? Hundreds? Or was it just a really unfortunate series of events that shaped the way we look at Presidential security?
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I browsed it. The first red flag I saw was the "faked" photo of LHO with the gun. Investigate the photo.

Lee had his wife take it in Spring of 1963. He actually gave a print (nearly identical - taken right before or after the one that is better known) to one of his and Marina's friends and even signed it. He made some sort of comment about how they should keep it as he was going to be famous soon. This was 6 or 7 months before JFK got killed. Lee had already been thinking about using it to assassinate General Edwin Walker, which he probably attempted but hit a window mullion. The friends contacted authorities after the assassination. So despite the fact that the photo in question was found in his home, there was independent verification of its pre-assassination authenticity that is ignored entirely. Unless his friends were in on it along with Ruby, the Dallas Police, Secret Service, other gunmen, etc. Oh, and one of Jack Ruby's strippers, I forgot her.

Can you imagine trying to keep them all quiet?

Oswald was a nut. The motorcade was a gift on a silver platter and ever one of his actions before and after that day show him preparing to shoot Kennedy. And how about after? He guns down Tippet and tries to shoot another cop in the theater. Not the best patsy - or was he?
I guess we all will believe what we want. I will believe that no way in hell that man killed Kennedy as a single assassin. To many problems with that story.
You will never get me to believe he pulled them shots off with a 6.5 mm Carcano rifle 90 yards away on a moving target. Oswald was not an expert shooter. The best he did in the marine was sharpshooter with a 212 score in 1956. Shot worst in 1959 only getting a 191...downgrade
  1. Expert: a score of 220 to 250.
  2. Sharpshooter: 210 to 219.
  3. Marksman: 190 to 209.
and you want me to believe he made those shots...no way in hell
For the benefit of the Warren Commission, expert riflemen from the US Army and the FBI attempted to duplicate the assassin’s task, using the rifle that had been discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Even after fixing some of the gun’s mechanical problems, and despite firing at stationary targets from an easier vantage point, they failed to achieve the combination of accuracy and speed demanded of the lone gunman: two hits out of three, within about six seconds (see Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, p.446 and pp.403–10).
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Like Walter Cronkite used to say on CBS and PBS specials on this case, "There are hard facts and evidence, and there are theories. The hard facts and evidence are very compelling."
It is hard to get one's head around the massive injustice of a turd like Oswald snuffing out a great man.

I understand the conspiracy believers. But I just couldn't deny it any longer. No conspiracy - just a bad few days.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
I guess we all will believe what we want. I will believe that no way in hell that man killed Kennedy as a single assassin. To many problems with that story.
You will never get me to believe he pulled them shots off with a 6.5 mm Carcano rifle 90 yards away on a moving target. Oswald was not an expert shooter. The best he did in the marine was sharpshooter with a 212 score in 1956. Shot worst in 1959 only getting a 191...downgrade
  1. Expert: a score of 220 to 250.
  2. Sharpshooter: 210 to 219.
  3. Marksman: 190 to 209.
and you want me to believe he made those shots...no way in hell
For the benefit of the Warren Commission, expert riflemen from the US Army and the FBI attempted to duplicate the assassin’s task, using the rifle that had been discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Even after fixing some of the gun’s mechanical problems, and despite firing at stationary targets from an easier vantage point, they failed to achieve the combination of accuracy and speed demanded of the lone gunman: two hits out of three, within about six seconds (see Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, p.446 and pp.403–10).
I do not have a spectacular arm but one day I really wound up and hurled a water balloon at a moving car (I knew the inhabitants). It was pretty much maximum range, but that fucker went right through the open window at an oblique angle and smashed on the dashboard. It was a perfect throw. One which I could not do again. That being said, I could have shot Kennedy from that perch (I shoot better than I throw). It was a perfect target from a perfect perch. Most days it might have ended differently but it didn't.

No matter what sort of shot Lee was, the shooter's chances of success are best described as a probability rather than by a statement like 'he could or could not have done it'. I think his chances at success were probably better than you think. Maybe his chance of failure were greater than his chance of success. But none of this disproves anything. You must admit that the probability of a Marine sniper with a rifle in a snipers perch at 90 yards against a slowly moving target landing 2 out of 3 shots is not zero. So what are they? I kind of think his chances were better than 33%.
 
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londonfog

Well-Known Member
I do not have a spectacular arm but one day I really wound up and hurled a water balloon at a moving car (I knew the inhabitants). It was pretty much maximum range, but that fucker went right through the open window at an oblique angle and smashed on the dashboard. It was a perfect throw. One which I could not do again. That being said, I could have shot Kennedy from that perch (I shoot better than I throw). It was a perfect target from a perfect perch. Most days it might have ended differently but it didn't.
Did you just compare throwing water balloons at a moving car to taking a scope shot with a rifle..lol
Sorry but I have to call you out on that one.
Lee Harvey Oswald was almost certainly not a good enough marksman to fire three shots within six seconds at a moving target, scoring two hits out of three, with a rifle that was inaccurate and unreliable and if you could do it, that would make you an expert marksman, better than expert riflemen from the US Army and the FBI. They could not even duplicate what was suppose to be done. People get Call Of Duty confused with real life.
 
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Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Did you just compare throwing water balloons at a moving car to taking a scope shot with a rifle..lol
Sorry but I have to call you out on that one.
Lee Harvey Oswald was almost certainly not a good enough marksman to fire three shots within six seconds at a moving target, scoring two hits out of three, with a rifle that was inaccurate and unreliable and if you could do it that would make you an expert marksman, better than expert riflemen from the US Army and the FBI. They could not even duplicate what was suppose to be done. People get Call Of Duty confused with real life.
Yes, I know, with a rifle it would have been an easy shot not even worth mentioning. I used the example as a thought experiment about probability.

Actually the rifle was fairly accurate according to the Warren Commision despite worn rifling and poor design. The 6 second rule is inaccurate, it was nearly 9 seconds. Dozens of similar tests done by many others have shown that Oswald's results were quite possible even using shooters of medium experience if they were given some time to familiarize themselves with the rifle. Most of them found that the speed was not too hard to hit, even if one shot had to be a quick one in under 2 seconds. Seriously... Tim Tebow sucks, but go look at some of those throws. Both of them were lucky assholes.

I am a very good shot. The Marines have never tested me but the fact remains. I have never played Call of Duty but I have fired a lot of rounds .

My water balloon skills are so so. I guess I had a good day.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know, with a rifle it would have been an easy shot not even worth mentioning. I used the example as a thought experiment about probability.

Actually the rifle was fairly accurate according to the Warren Commision despite worn rifling and poor design. The 6 second rule is inaccurate, it was nearly 9 seconds. Dozens of similar tests done by many others have shown that Oswald's results were quite possible even using shooters of medium experience if they were given some time to familiarize themselves with the rifle. Most of them found that the speed was not too hard to hit, even if one shot had to be a quick one in under 2 seconds. Seriously... Tim Tebow sucks, but go look at some of those throws. Both of them were lucky assholes.

I am a very good shot. The Marines have never tested me but the fact remains.

My water balloon skills are so so. I guess I had a good day.
could you cite where the Warren Commission stated rifle was fairly accurate and could you please share with me the results of the Paraffin test. I ask these question to show your error or show me wrong.

oh and cite what is red
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Every time we changed the adjusting screws to move the crosshairs in the telescopic sight in one direction it also affected the movement of the impact or the point of impact in the other direction. … We fired several shots and found that the shots were not all landing in the same place, but were gradually moving away from the point of impact.

(Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, p.405
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Every time we changed the adjusting screws to move the crosshairs in the telescopic sight in one direction it also affected the movement of the impact or the point of impact in the other direction. … We fired several shots and found that the shots were not all landing in the same place, but were gradually moving away from the point of impact.

(Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, p.405
Seems like you are cutting hairs here. He had a good day.
 
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