Thinking taking my first bash at breeding

djlifeline

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone,

If I get a separate male from say a big bud strain and collect the pollen to pollinate my Feminized Northern Lights Blue strain or Humboldt strain... will I end up with feminized seeds?

Sick of keep buying seeds and dont have 2 rooms to clone and want to go perpetual...

Any advice greatly appreciated :joint:
 

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
nah. if you had a female and sprayed it with hormones to turn it male and take that pollen, then the seeds would be feminized.

breeding is very complicated if you want to make "stabilized strains" alot of backcrossing and better make sure you have notebooks to keep track of everything. i have dreams of breeding but i think it would be very unstable stuff (i would keep a father instead of a mother, and just plant seeds and pollinate the females with the "stud" and make sure no males made it to flowering) good luck with it.
 

Dizzle Frost

Well-Known Member
Try it and see what happens....thats how you learn about bredding....if you wanna make some decent beans for yourself, start with some stable strains like skunk, nl, afghan ect, and make yourself some F-1 hybrids. Breeding is all about selection and knowledge of the genetics your using, jus read as much as you can and ask questions. But yul learn more from making your own crosses and seeing first hand what the results are. Good luck
 

djlifeline

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys. I imagined wasnt that easy. Trying to think best way to go perpetual with 1 closet and 400w duel spec
 

canefan

Well-Known Member
I don't know how much I can add except when you start, start with similiar strains. I am sorry I haven't looked up anything about those strains, but here is a link you can use http://en.seedfinder.eu/search/extended/. The more different your parents the more variation you will see in the offspring, but it is also lots of fun to see what happens and what you end up with. Only having a closet to do this it would take a very long time to find out your results.
So to make a long story short for ease of making your own seeds with such limited space you would be better IMHO to start with at least an f3 so that you more or less know what to expect when you pollinate. When you have a bigger space and a veg room I would then start crossing strains, where you can grow enough to enjoy the different phenos you can get. Sannie's has a freebie called "Free Kush" which is an open pollinated strain and when crossed back to itself will make babies just like mommie and daddy.
Making seeds is great fun, can save lots of money and become very time consuming. That is not to mention the space you can devote to it when possible, lol I am up to running close to 50 plants just looking to see what the crosses look like, then there is usually 2 clones for every plant going into flower just in case one of them is that special plant whether male or female. Of course you can't tell until the end of the cycle so you have to keep a copy of each plant until then.
Did I tell you how much fun it is? A thrill everytime you pop a seed.
Good Luck
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone,

If I get a separate male from say a big bud strain and collect the pollen to pollinate my Feminized Northern Lights Blue strain or Humboldt strain... will I end up with feminized seeds?
In a word, no.

Crossing an ordinary male with a female plant grown from a feminized seed won't yield feminized seeds.

The way to get feminized seeds is to take pollen from the male flowers of a hermaphroditic female plant and cross it with a female plant (perhaps even the same one). In effect by sexually crossing two female plants (one with male parts), you ensure that all of the offspring will be female too.

If you don't have a hermaphroditic plant, its possible to artificially force any female plant to become hermaphroditic by applying either colloidal silver, gibberellic acid or another similar compound. This is how the professional breeders usually make their own feminized seeds. You can read about exactly how to do this elsewhere.

Sick of keep buying seeds and dont have 2 rooms to clone and want to go perpetual...

Any advice greatly appreciated :joint:
OK, first of all, clones are tiny, and it doesn't take a whole room to maintain a large number of them. You can easily put nine rooting clones in a square foot, meaning you could easily maintain 20 of them in an area the size of a small shelf or box if you wanted to. Clones also don't require much light; most people just use ordinary cheap tube fluorescents or CFLs. The point is, maintaining clones may not be as hard as you think it is, particularly if you only need a small number of them.

In terms of seeds, if you just cross any two plants just ONE time, you should end up with literally hundreds of seeds, potentially enough to last you for years if you only grow a few plants at at a time. This is easy and cheap enough to do that I think it might be worth the extra effort of having to pick out the males after planting them (rather than trying to create feminized seeds). You don't even have to fertilize ("waste") an entire female plant; you can just dab pollen from one kept male on a few branches to create dozens to hundreds of seeds if you like. In fact, you can keep the male in the form of a small "stud" clone or just tiny plant separate from your female plants, so you won't run the risk of accidentally pollinating your entire crop, nor require much space/energy to maintain the male.

Now, as to breeding, if you were to do a cross with two similar true-breeding strains (eg Northern lights x Northern lights), the offspring should all be similar to the parents, and their offspring similar, and so on. So if you started with ordinary seeds of a recognized true breeding strain, and crossed a male and a female, you'd create many more genetically similar plants. Once you used up most of your seeds, you could repeat the cross with any male and female, and create hundreds more, etc.

If you did a cross with DIFFERENT strains, like the Fem Northern lights x Big Bud example you mentioned above, the first generation of offspring would be a hybrid strain, with all offspring similar to one another and sharing traits from each parent. You'd probably end up with something "good," though as a first generation hybrid it wouldn't be stable. Specifically, if you were to cross THOSE offspring one with another, you'd likely end up with a wild assortment of phenotypes as the genes from the two original NL&BB parents were assorted randomly through the second generation cross.

But unless you were trying to create a new line/strain with traits from each of your two original plants, this wouldn't really matter. If all you wanted was a number of viable seeds to keep growing, you could stop after the first cross, and when you eventually used up all those seeds, start again with two new true-breeding parents to create hundreds more seeds, etc.

If you really wanted to create something new with what you considered to be the most desirable traits of two individual parents, you'd probably have to pick through literally dozens, if not hundreds of individual plants to find the ones that had all the traits you wanted to pass on. Then you have to repeat this cycle of selection multiple times (at least 5, though with fewer plants) to create a stabilized (ie true-breeding) line.

This is why serious breeding projects are beyond the scope of most hobby or home growers. Unless you have the ability to grow out 50 or more plants at a time for selection over multiple generations, and the ability to do it in a disciplined and organized way taking copious notes and maintaining clones of each plant for further crossing, you can't really do the best possible work.

Fortunately, its relatively easy to get excellent genetics where all of this hard work was already done by breeders in the past!
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Sannie's has a freebie called "Free Kush" which is an open pollinated strain and when crossed back to itself will make babies just like mommie and daddy.
Good Luck
I don't think this is true.

"Open pollination" means the "strain" was generated as a result of non-structured crossing between a male and females in its vicinity. Its what happens in nature when random plant A breeds with random plant B, and it is to be distinguished between "closed" (or controlled) pollination where a breeder deliberately selects parent plants for crossing, carefully dabbing pollen from one to the other.

In this case, Sannie specifies that his "Free Kush" is actually a cross between his KO Kush and Motarebel's Star Kush.

http://www.sanniesshop.com/freebees-en.html
Free Kush (starkush X k.o kush)
In a open pollination we pollinated star kush (motarebel seeds) to make a strong regular kush freebee.
So Sannie is saying one of two things here with the term "open pollination." He either means that this cross happened by accident, or that he did it on purpose by placing the two plants next to one another (ie rather than mechanically pollinating the mother). Doesn't really make a difference; the outcome is the same.

I can't speak to the genetics of KO Kush and Star Kush, but presumably they're different strains. So while given the quality of the parents, you'd expect "Free Kush" to be a pretty good plant in its own right, since it is an F1 hybrid between two different strains, you'd also expect that the offspring of two "Free Kush" plants would show a wide variety of phenotypes including random mixes of traits from each of the original KO and Star Kush parents.

If you really want to create offspring identical to the parents, Sannie describes his "Herijuana" as an IBL - "in bred line". An inbred line is the same thing as a true-breeding strain; the offspring between any two parents of that line should be identical. So if you took any Herijuana male and crossed it with any Herijuana female, you should end up with genetically identical Herijuana offspring, that you could then cross with each other to yield more identical offspring, etc.
 

canefan

Well-Known Member
^^^^ You're right. sorry about that sannie has different "free kush" than when it first hit the sight. I had been talking with one of the contributors, to a batch of the early freedbies many months back and they were not IBL but pretty true breeding. Any your explaination of things is right on, thanks again for pointing out the new description with this and for me making a bad post.
Merry Christmas
Cane
 
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