Trump is the iceberg, the Democratic party is the Titanic, and progressives are the lifeboat
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
When Obama was elected people said the Republicans were a dead party and wouldnt win an election for the next 20years.
Keep trying, duct tape.
Keep trying, duct tape.
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Lulu Lemon is the Spirit of St. Louis, I am France and yoga butt is my Charles Lindbergh.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
What is the current percentage of 'progressive' democrats currently holding office in the house and senate, in your view?
Just wondering.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
It depends on how you are defining 'progressive'. If you're defining it as a Democrat who supports things like LGBT rights, abortion rights, or the legalization of marijuana, I'd say most of the Democratic members of the house and senate are 'progressive'.
If you're defining it as a Democrat who supports campaign finance reform, regulating the financial industry, or raising the corporate tax rate and ending corporate welfare, I'd say very few of the Democratic members of the house and senate are 'progressive', maybe a handful, less than 10%.
In my opinion, if you support all the things in the first example, but none of the things in the second example, you're not an actual progressive.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
74% of McDowell county voted for Trump and most of the people who asked questions voted for Trump, Hayes asked them before they asked the question
Meaning Sanders proposals; universal college, single payer healthcare, raising the minimum wage to a living wage, raising corporate taxes, etc. resonate with conservative voters as well. His policies have support from both progressives and conservatives because they're reasonable
Wilderb
Well-Known Member
And what did THEY Do? They went FURTHER to the right, didn't they? And who is in power NOW?
Too many stupid voters and people who want i phones right?
Wilderb
Well-Known Member
I love how ninja and others put their hands over their ears when it comes to hearing that most people are in fact "progressive".
I live in the midwest in a state that voted for Sanders in the primary and trump in the main. First time since 84 going to a Rep president.
But no.............nothing wrong here...........
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Ok, the country is Bobby Franks. Trump is Leopold, Bannon is Loeb and Rush Limbaugh is Clarence Darrow.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I wasn't convinced the first time I watched this that Bernie actually convinced anybody. I'm still not.
Makes for good propaganda, though.
And I'm still on Bernie's side.
Not yours, though. Bernie isn't on your side either.
I'd sure like to see a link that to a poll where people say they are progressive. Maybe you are quoting people's positions? When I talk with my rabidly right wing brother about issues, we generally agree about wanting people to have access to healthcare, a safety net, social security and so forth. He looks to the right to get these things done. This is very consistent with polls I've seen and what has happened in the elections. Right wingers don't want people starving on the streets, they look to different leadership to solve the same problems we both see.
Every election since 2008 has shown success to reactionary right wing politicians. Until that changes, I'd have to say most of the states in this country lean towards right wing politicians. Progressive politicians do well in only a few states.
Reactionary right wing politics aren't the same as conservative. That movement died under GWB. Which is why I call them reactionary right wing politicians. The few remaining conservative politicians are hating what they see in the recent health care plan which they see as just another entitlement program. Reactionary right wingers aren't afraid of social programs for white people who for the most part are not poor. Therein lies the difference between progressives and right wingers.
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Wilderb
Well-Known Member
When you refer to the policies, without calling them progressive, do most people agree?
We love to hate things we classify. Like "liberal" or "Right wing". Or we decide a word means something it does not. Take "ignorance" for example. We are all ignorant on many things. Nothing wrong with that.
Why does progress mean bad?? Tell me what progressive agenda you disagree with?
I believe that most of the people agree on 80% of the things that government is supposed to do. The problem is that we can't even get those things done because we are on "sides" now.
While we run around and say "we are diverse", we think that everybody's interests are best served by ONLY 2 CHOICES???
So many walked away from the system because NEITHER side represented them. For good or bad, trump has awoken some of them. So now I sit here and watch those who say they are dems. Do they reach out to those voters?
No.
Trailer dweller, gay, nazi, non high school graduate, welfare recipient and things of that nature are used to slam them.
Do I agree with their politics? NO. Do I want what they want? Hell No. But to criticize them for being what they are?
It really does make many look like the "lefy elitist" they are accused of being.
WE
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
"I'm a retired MWA miner and I never dreamt I'd get to thank you personally, myself, for the bill that you have cosponsored, the Senate bill 175, the miners protection act which, I'm on of those miners that will lose his healthcare at the end of April if they don't pass that law. I come from local, 1440 and Mayone, it's a little old town on down the river where McDowell's water goes to when it leaves McDowell county and we have the largest locals in the UMWA, we have over 800 members, all inactive. They're all retired. So we look at things different. We've looked at our healthcare and all what we've worked out, we won't mine anymore coal. Our coal mining days are over, and we looked at, to have the funds that we worked for... - Sanders interrupts - "AND WERE PROMISED!" - ... that were promised to us taken care of. That's all we asked. And it's uh, I think it's kind of ironic that a senator from the north-east takes care of my benefits better than someone like Mitch McConnell."
How are you "on Sanders side" if you don't support the policies he supports or the positions he takes on campaign finance reform or regulating Wall Street?
Conversely, how am I not when I do?
Sanders just showed you in real time when the most conservative voters in the country are confronted with actual policy positions, they side with the progressive position. How can you possibly continue to deny this given the evidence? He just got a man who voted for Trump to admit he believes healthcare is a right and that all Americans should have healthcare.
Republicans and the "reactionary right" haven't won because their ideas are so good, they've won because establishment Democrats' ideas, strategy and practices of bending over backwards for corporate America are so goddamn appallingly bad, and it seems everybody but you and Bucky's type can see it. Voters have abandoned the Democratic party in droves because they don't represent progressive values and they've changed their party affiliation with Independent, not Republican; Gallup Poll
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
bit chippy are you?
I'm not going to get into a "I'm a better progressive than you are" tit for tat. Just saying that when Clinton clinched the nomination, I stuck with Sanders when so called progressives were talking about boycotting the election. They just might have made a difference to keep Trump out of office but no.
You are in the powerless independent minority. Sanders, yes, he is independent too but caucusing and working with Democrats, some of whom you would castigate as "not pure". Democrats are the only check on total Republican domination. Muslim ban, elderly kicked out of assisted living, cancellation of SNAP, deregulating Wall Street, pugnacious nationalism towards Mexico, expansion of the military-police state are all policies pursued by Trump in only 50 days after taking power. Oh yeah, Obama was just like that. Clinton would have been what? worse?
Your fantasy about "Republicans won because Democrats weren't progressive enough" flies in the face of how many states flipped to the red column in state houses and in congress. You talk as fact-free as any trump supporter.
Some of the made up shit you said about me, I'll just let slide. It's not worth trying to cut through whatever dementia you have.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Republicans won, not because Democrats weren't progressive enough, they won because Democrats within the establishment were too corrupt and working-class voters saw it. As we told you time and time again before the election only to be scoffed at, Clinton accepted millions from the financial industry giving speeches. We told you that was suspicious, you told us we were just being paranoid..
That's why Sanders won 47% of the vote and 22 states during the primary, even given all the known biases against him. Anyone unconvinced Sanders would have beat Trump in the general now, given all the evidence since the primary remains forever delusional.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So you retract your claims that the Democratic party must go all in and expunge any that aren't true progressives or they are doomed to 50 years in the wilderness?
You are quoting percentages of democratic voters in some states that went to Trump, mostly by small margins. Thanks to that teensy number of true progressive believers who did what they could to put a fascist in office.
I voted for Sanders in the primary and voted with Sanders in the main. I have no regrets about doing either. If more had done the same, the EPA wouldn't be run by a science denying freak. Trump is going to set this country back 20 or more years IF he has four or fewer years in office. Satisfied?
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You're the ones that pressed the losing strategy and lost, not us. The DNC was in full support of Clinton, she won and had total control over the direction of the campaign.
You still blame us..
Now Tom Perez and establishment Democrats control bringing people in and "uniting the party!". When you inevitably fail, you'll blame us. You can't take responsibility for your own failures. It wasn't progressives that lost you the vote in 2016, it was Hillary Clinton's lack of ability to entice actual progressive voters. Accepting big donor money is the problem, progressives all over the country now understand that your Wall Street ball washing hurts our cause and makes us look, rightly so, corrupt. The proverbial cat is out of the bag. The Democratic party has nowhere else to turn but to the voters they've already disenfranchised. The Democratic establishment can't turn to the voters because the voters are now privy to their tactics.
This is why they are done. They won't win em back. "But TRUMP! Tho!" isn't good enough.