Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers

I started this draft and then quit after finding out I can't edit what I start. I need the flexibility to make future additions and revisions, which is not granted to the thread starter here at RIU. So for what it's worth, here are a few tidbits written about 6 months ago.

Enjoy,
Uncle Ben

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Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks

After 40 years of gardening experience, a ton of applied book learning, and a whole lot of research and personal experience I thought I'd share some pointers or tweeks. Feel free to comment. This will be a work in progress as I recall “gems” I might have inadvertently left out.

Light - Plants needs a rest. Recommend 20/4 for veg. Plants do better (produce more carbos) with less light over a longer period of time than alot of light for a shorter period of time. There is a point of light saturation where more light will work against you by bleaching out the lifeblood of the plant - chlorophyll. Learn to "read your plants" and keep those leaves healthy and green until harvest. Also, contrary to forum paradigms, in general you want to give your plants more light during veg and less during flowering, think nature. The flowering response is not the time to bleach out the leaves with high light intensities (and high P foods). Ultra low levels of N found in bloom foods will generally not support leaf health.

Temperature and the importance of day/night differential - In general, a 85/70F (32/16C) day/night temp is best for most hybrids for maximum carbo production. What's really important is a good drop in temperature at night, of at least 15F/4C. If night temps are too high, the plant will use up the carbos manufactured during the day to the process of respiration as opposed to plant cell division/elongation (tissue production).

Watering technique - contrary to popular belief, wet/dry cycles are NOT good, especially for organic growers. Keep the soil medium moist but not saturated to the point where air is excluded. When you water, don’t be shy. Water until there is a good runoff. The issue is not overwatering, it's watering to the point of the exclusion of air.

Fertilizers - I don’t use “cannabis specific” plant foods for many reasons. If you do, make sure you’re able to find the NPK and micro values and understand the relationship between those elements. An overage of one element over another will create an antagonistic affect. For example, too much K tends to create a deficiency of N, Ca, and Mg.

Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6.

Upcanning (repotting) - Score the rootball - pop the ball out and using a razor blade or sharp knife insert it about ½" into the rootball at the top and slice thru the exposed roots from top to bottom concentrating on any root spinout at the bottom. Rotate the rootball and do this about 4 times. Bury the “trunk” as deep as you can even if it means pulling off some of the lower leafsets. This will induce root output all along the buried trunk.

Uncle Ben said:

I started this draft and then quit after finding out I can't edit what I start. I need the flexibility to make future additions and revisions, which is not granted to the thread starter here at RIU. So for what it's worth, here are a few tidbits written about 6 months ago.

Enjoy,
Uncle Ben

***************************************************************************************

Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks

After 40 years of gardening experience, a ton of applied book learning, and a whole lot of research and personal experience I thought I'd share some pointers or tweeks. Feel free to comment. This will be a work in progress as I recall “gems” I might have inadvertently left out.

Light - Plants needs a rest. Recommend 20/4 for veg. Plants do better (produce more carbos) with less light over a longer period of time than alot of light for a shorter period of time. There is a point of light saturation where more light will work against you by bleaching out the lifeblood of the plant - chlorophyll. Learn to "read your plants" and keep those leaves healthy and green until harvest. Also, contrary to forum paradigms, in general you want to give your plants more light during veg and less during flowering, think nature. The flowering response is not the time to bleach out the leaves with high light intensities (and high P foods). Ultra low levels of N found in bloom foods will generally not support leaf health.

Temperature and the importance of day/night differential - In general, a 85/70F (32/16C) day/night temp is best for most hybrids for maximum carbo production. What's really important is a good drop in temperature at night, of at least 15F/4C. If night temps are too high, the plant will use up the carbos manufactured during the day to the process of respiration as opposed to plant cell division/elongation (tissue production).

Watering technique - contrary to popular belief, wet/dry cycles are NOT good, especially for organic growers. Keep the soil medium moist but not saturated to the point where air is excluded. When you water, don’t be shy. Water until there is a good runoff. The issue is not overwatering, it's watering to the point of the exclusion of air.

Fertilizers - I don’t use “cannabis specific” plant foods for many reasons. If you do, make sure you’re able to find the NPK and micro values and understand the relationship between those elements. An overage of one element over another will create an antagonistic affect. For example, too much K tends to create a deficiency of N, Ca, and Mg.

Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6.

Upcanning (repotting) - Score the rootball - pop the ball out and using a razor blade or sharp knife insert it about ½" into the rootball at the top and slice thru the exposed roots from top to bottom concentrating on any root spinout at the bottom. Rotate the rootball and do this about 4 times. Bury the “trunk” as deep as you can even if it means pulling off some of the lower leafsets. This will induce root output all along the buried trunk.

Click to expand...

K.I.S.S
I love this, its simple yet full of gems.
Some of the best info Ive read on this site in a while.
UB, can you please elaborate on why we need to keep our soil moist in organic grows. Ive seen that Ive always had problems with my organic grows and I know its due to letting the soil dry out then watering, on this grow I kept it moist and the plants look beautiful. My ? is why though, what effect does this have on the soil and plants?
Thanks Dude!

Good little read

Maybe talk a little about different kinds of fertilizers and the ingredients used in them.....like WSN (N) and WIN (N)

i use pureblend pro from botanicare and the flower nutes are 2-3-5 and the veg nutes are3-2-4. would i be better off using 3/4 bloom nutes and 1/2 veg nutes. im growing hydro. when i use to grow outside my leafs staid nice and lush green right up to harvest time. now that i switched to hydro my leafs start looking kinda bad yellowing about the 5th week of flower . im growing a pure indica strain. and what books would you recomend on growing

Uncle Ben said:

I started this draft and then quit after finding out I can't edit what I start. I need the flexibility to make future additions and revisions, which is not granted to the thread starter here at RIU. So for what it's worth, here are a few tidbits written about 6 months ago.

Enjoy,
Uncle Ben

***************************************************************************************

Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks

After 40 years of gardening experience, a ton of applied book learning, and a whole lot of research and personal experience I thought I'd share some pointers or tweeks. Feel free to comment. This will be a work in progress as I recall “gems” I might have inadvertently left out.

Light - Plants needs a rest. Recommend 20/4 for veg. Plants do better (produce more carbos) with less light over a longer period of time than alot of light for a shorter period of time. There is a point of light saturation where more light will work against you by bleaching out the lifeblood of the plant - chlorophyll. Learn to "read your plants" and keep those leaves healthy and green until harvest. Also, contrary to forum paradigms, in general you want to give your plants more light during veg and less during flowering, think nature. The flowering response is not the time to bleach out the leaves with high light intensities (and high P foods). Ultra low levels of N found in bloom foods will generally not support leaf health.

Temperature and the importance of day/night differential - In general, a 85/70F (32/16C) day/night temp is best for most hybrids for maximum carbo production. What's really important is a good drop in temperature at night, of at least 15F/4C. If night temps are too high, the plant will use up the carbos manufactured during the day to the process of respiration as opposed to plant cell division/elongation (tissue production).

Watering technique - contrary to popular belief, wet/dry cycles are NOT good, especially for organic growers. Keep the soil medium moist but not saturated to the point where air is excluded. When you water, don’t be shy. Water until there is a good runoff. The issue is not overwatering, it's watering to the point of the exclusion of air.

Fertilizers - I don’t use “cannabis specific” plant foods for many reasons. If you do, make sure you’re able to find the NPK and micro values and understand the relationship between those elements. An overage of one element over another will create an antagonistic affect. For example, too much K tends to create a deficiency of N, Ca, and Mg.

Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6.

Upcanning (repotting) - Score the rootball - pop the ball out and using a razor blade or sharp knife insert it about ½" into the rootball at the top and slice thru the exposed roots from top to bottom concentrating on any root spinout at the bottom. Rotate the rootball and do this about 4 times. Bury the “trunk” as deep as you can even if it means pulling off some of the lower leafsets. This will induce root output all along the buried trunk.

Click to expand...

Uncle Ben, sweet ass thread! Good basic information that very few individuals either know, or fail to mention. I know it takes time to post this info, and answer questions consistently... so, thank you for your generosity.

My first questions refer to light intensity: Do you have a recommendation of a good reference that would answer these basic questions? How is light intensity measured and what are the units used? What type of meter is used that can measure intensity reliably without spending a lot of $$$? What is appropriate intensity for our specific plant in general, or will this vary on strain like many variables? When considering a 400W hortilux bulb, how capable am I of providing too much light to say 18 plants w/in a confined space (ie, 4x3')? *Btw, ever since I switched from 24/0 to 20/4, the plants indeed, seem to be 'happier'.

I'm also interested in hearing why keeping the plants moist, but not dry before watering, is ideal.

When discussing your up-canning method, I just want to clarify whether you mean cutting into the soil .5" as if it were a 'piece of pie', for lack of a better analogy (ie, 'freeing up the roots')... Or if you mean, actually shaving a .5" circumference around the outer edge of the entire side soil layer after removing from the pot (ie, shortening the roots).

Last, I remember your post on pH, so I have an inclination of how you feel about it. However, I have to ask, do you pH your water? Nutrients? If so, what do you use to increase/decrease your pH? Can you use acetic acid (specifically white distilled vinegar) to decrease? Can you use a sodium bicarbonate solution (baking soda) to increase?... Or do these leave unwanted byproducts. Thanks, man.

Thank you.

+ rep thank you UB ...rob

dakin3d said:

Uncle Ben, sweet ass thread! Good basic information that very few individuals either know, or fail to mention. I know it takes time to post this info, and answer questions consistently... so, thank you for your generosity.

My first questions refer to light intensity: Do you have a recommendation of a good reference that would answer these basic questions? How is light intensity measured and what are the units used? What type of meter is used that can measure intensity reliably without spending a lot of $$$? What is appropriate intensity for our specific plant in general, or will this vary on strain like many variables? When considering a 400W hortilux bulb, how capable am I of providing too much light to say 18 plants w/in a confined space (ie, 4x3')? *Btw, ever since I switched from 24/0 to 20/4, the plants indeed, seem to be 'happier'.

I'm also interested in hearing why keeping the plants moist, but not dry before watering, is ideal.

When discussing your up-canning method, I just want to clarify whether you mean cutting into the soil .5" as if it were a 'piece of pie', for lack of a better analogy (ie, 'freeing up the roots')... Or if you mean, actually shaving a .5" circumference around the outer edge of the entire side soil layer after removing from the pot (ie, shortening the roots).

Last, I remember your post on pH, so I have an inclination of how you feel about it. However, I have to ask, do you pH your water? Nutrients? If so, what do you use to increase/decrease your pH? Can you use acetic acid (specifically white distilled vinegar) to decrease? Can you use a sodium bicarbonate solution (baking soda) to increase?... Or do these leave unwanted byproducts. Thanks, man.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Light's measured using a light meter.

Hydrofarm makes (used to ten years ago when I bought it) a cheapo guy for $20-$30 that'll do what you need it to.

Uncle Ben, could you expound a touch on why you think that a vegging plant benefits from a dark period? I know everyone's got their own theories on 18/6 vs. 24/0, was just curious what yours was.

Also, have you ever run a controlled experiment with 24/0 vs. 20/4?

Thanks for your time, I (and most others, methinks) appreciate the effort you put into trying to help others.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=3087

Works fine, I used it setting up a room ten years ago to make sure the light was in the proper place for maximum efficiency.

Thanks UB for your knowledge! My only question regards to applying nutes in flowering. You stated that if its necessary to keep your leaves green, give them a 9-3-6. Won't your plants produce smaller flowers if your giving that much nitrogen in flowering? Or will it only do that when your adding N once the leaves are already green enough?

very good info thanks

wow, you are going to be very busy ub, now that you started this thread and still have the water stress thread to watch over!! but it's your own fault for sharing good experiance in something so many people are very passionate about and have such a hard time knowing when to say when in OVERLOVING them!!
anyway, is it still nessesary to score the root ball if using micokote or the stuff you use? shouldn't have to i would amagine. i sure could use a spell checker!!

I've checked on Spin out and it's sold mostly to nurseries in minimum gallon volumes for $150 or so. Local garden suppliers have never heard of the stuff.

What is mikocote? Is it similar to Spin out?

Great post UB! The Upcanning (repotting) sounds really interesting but i have a feeling it easy to mess up.

Benny Boy i must say ur a legend,
iv used your topping guidance since i started growing and it works great,
iv also reported this thread to the mods so they can allow a re-editing feature in order for you to share more of your knowledge

Thanx as always
Monkz.

Uncle Ben said:

Fertilizers - I don’t use “cannabis specific” plant foods for many reasons. If you do, make sure you’re able to find the NPK and micro values and understand the relationship between those elements. An overage of one element over another will create an antagonistic affect. For example, too much K tends to create a deficiency of N, Ca, and Mg.

Click to expand...

+rep, thx UncleBen

Uncle Ben, what ratio nutrients do you for your plants? Do you use different formulas for veg and flower? Do you use Lucas formula, 5-10-9?

Katatawnic said:

A very important part of photosynthesis is a rest period. Think of how sluggish, and from there quite unhealthy, we get when we don't have enough sleep. Just like us, plants need a rest period to recharge... to put it quite simply. I don't remember the botanical terms for this, but if we think of what we need to thrive (air to breathe, nutrients, sunlight, rest, etc.), common sense would dictate that any living being also needs these things.

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I really don't think that's correct - will wait for others to comment to come to a conclusion, but this post disagrees with everything I've ever read.

I do believe it's pretty inarguable that a 24/0 plant will grow faster then a 20/4 or 18/6 plant.

That, as far as I understand it, is just a fact (any study I've ever heard/read of has come to this conclusion, although I've never run an experiment personally).

That being said, I'm wondering if UB (or anyone else) has taken it a step further and flowered those two groups, and come to the conclusion that even though the 24/0 plants grew faster and were flowered larger then the 20/4 or 18/6 plants, that for some reason the latter produced more and/or higher quality herb than the 20/4.

I guess that was basically the question I was asking.

Bob Smith said:

I really don't think that's correct - will wait for others to comment to come to a conclusion, but this post disagrees with everything I've ever read.

I do believe it's pretty inarguable that a 24/0 plant will grow faster then a 20/4 or 18/6 plant.

That, as far as I understand it, is just a fact (any study I've ever heard/read of has come to this conclusion, although I've never run an experiment personally).

That being said, I'm wondering if UB (or anyone else) has taken it a step further and flowered those two groups, and come to the conclusion that even though the 24/0 plants grew faster and were flowered larger then the 20/4 or 18/6 plants, that for some reason the latter produced more and/or higher quality herb than the 20/4.

I guess that was basically the question I was asking.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with that either, I've run tests....24/0 always grew faster, much faster.

I think of veg. time like a race, not time to be stopping and resting.

Whoa! Fellers, I need to set some boundaries. I don't have the time nor the motivation to answer basic questions. Please, if you've never grown before or this is your first time, get your feet wet first and then you'll have a foundation to draw from, a point of reference as it relates to a growing question. My tweeks are based on years of growing like I said and apply to those who understand what makes a plant tick.

Gonna do quick replies to some of ya'lls concerns.

ghostsamurai25 said:

UB, can you please elaborate on why we need to keep our soil moist in organic grows. Ive seen that Ive always had problems with my organic grows and I know its due to letting the soil dry out then watering,.....

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You create dry channels and pockets by letting your soil dry out before watering, and most importantly, you're depriving the plants of water and salts. Once that soil gets bone dry the soil particles shed water molecules. It's an ion thingie. Keep the soil constantly moist, but not saturated.

dakin3d said:

My first questions refer to light intensity: Do you have a recommendation of a good reference that would answer these basic questions? How is light intensity measured and what are the units used? What type of meter is used that can measure intensity reliably without spending a lot of $$$? What is appropriate intensity for our specific plant in general, or will this vary on strain like many variables? When considering a 400W hortilux bulb, how capable am I of providing too much light to say 18 plants w/in a confined space (ie, 4x3')? *Btw, ever since I switched from 24/0 to 20/4, the plants indeed, seem to be 'happier'.

Click to expand...

Like I've said in other posts, there is a light saturation point whereby "more is less". A plant can only use so many photons in a day, after that bad things start happening, like photosynthesis is curtailed, chlorophyll bleaches out, etc. Check this graph out: http://www.marietta.edu/~spilatrs/biol103/photolab/saturati.html

"As light intensity is increased, eventually an intensity is reached above which light no longer is the factor limiting the overall rate of photosynthesis. We say that a process is 'saturated' for a particular reactant when adding more of it does not increase the rate, just as a sponge becomes saturated with water when it can't hold any more. At the light saturation point, increasing the light no longer causes an increase in photosynthesis."

Buy a light meter that registers to at least 10K f.c. Use it as a guide like you would any kind of meter. There are no "appropriate" intensities just like there is no appropriate amount of plant food. All depends on the collection of cultural factors - "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" thingie.

When discussing your up-canning method, I just want to clarify whether you mean cutting into the soil .5" as if it were a 'piece of pie', for lack of a better analogy (ie, 'freeing up the roots')... Or if you mean, actually shaving a .5" circumference around the outer edge of the entire side soil layer after removing from the pot (ie, shortening the roots).

Click to expand...

Let me take this opportunity to address the normal tendency of blindly following someone's thoughts/advice without understanding why. When someone states something that you find confusing or questionable, don't do the political correctness drill ("thanks man"), ask them to explain. All right, got that out of the way (and I'm not singling you out, that was a generic statement to all). Obviously you don't understand the reason for my madness, the cause-n-effect, glad you brought it up though. You're cutting vertically into the rootball top to bottom. You're not shaving anything off. By cutting vertically you are eliminating root spinout and inducing root branching within the rootball, behind the cut. IOW, you are trying to induce lateral root branching. This is only recommended if you have a case of spinout.

Last, I remember your post on pH, so I have an inclination of how you feel about it.

Click to expand...

It's an overblown issue around here and I talked about it here: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/251235-stop-blaming-issues-ph-people.html

Cannabis is pH tolerant when it comes to nutrition, and that's the issue. IMO it's just another drill of chest beating when you don't really know what's causing the decline of the plant's health. Plant looks like shit=pH must be the problem.

However, I have to ask, do you pH your water?

Click to expand...

Of course not.

Nutrients? If so, what do you use to increase/decrease your pH? Can you use acetic acid (specifically white distilled vinegar) to decrease? Can you use a sodium bicarbonate solution (baking soda) to increase?... Or do these leave unwanted byproducts. Thanks, man.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

If you must, use phosphoric acid (available from brew stores) to drop pH, potassium bicarbonate to increase pH. Organic acids such as citric are not stable, they are subject to microbial activity.

merahoon said:

Thanks UB for your knowledge! My only question regards to applying nutes in flowering. You stated that if its necessary to keep your leaves green, give them a 9-3-6. Won't your plants produce smaller flowers if your giving that much nitrogen in flowering?

Click to expand...

Again we are not comfortable with what's going on, think botany and outside of the box. A plant flowers not because of the foods the labels and forum geeks says they should have, it flowers based on the health of the leaves. You're not feeding it anything, the plant is making its own food. Your sole purpose for using plant foods is to support plant processes, salt requirements. Support of leaf health is what's important, not forum paradigms, consensus', etc. I grew an outdoor sativa with high N foods all the way thru. Why? Because every time I used a blossom food (low N) the leaves would yellow, indicating that chlorophyll was being destroyed. Even though they were wispy buds, typical for a pure sativa geno, they were 10" across and very heavy. Here's a shot showing 2 main colas of a total of 4 on one plant.



By the same token you don't want to overdo N during flowering. It's all in the balance.

squarepush3r said:

+rep, thx UncleBen

Uncle Ben, what ratio nutrients do you for your plants? Do you use different formulas for veg and flower? Do you use Lucas formula, 5-10-9?

Click to expand...

For me, a 9-3-6 and a 1-3-2 is all I need. I don't believe in the Lucas formula as it is not a complete food, at least not for hydro and I don't think he promoted it for soil use. Just because something is talked up, is popular, doesn't mean it's the best choice.

Bob Smith said:

I do believe it's pretty inarguable that a 24/0 plant will grow faster then a 20/4 or 18/6 plant.

Click to expand...

With what consequences. Plants need a rest and during darkness alot of root growth occurs. There are (natural and genetically scripted/fingerprinted) processes that can only occur during the dark cycle. I use a 20/4 because it is a compromise between 18/6 and 24/0. Look at the growth in this garden as an example. Any faster than this and it gets ridiculous. From popping a seed to flowering it is anywhere from 3 - 4 weeks for me resulting in large bushy plants.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Again, one must find their plants' light saturation point and stay just below it.

Stay free,
UB