Okay guys, I still don't understand some members here saying that Citizen is better than Vero. Look at spreadsheets... set temperature to 25 (like Vero) or 85 (like Citizen), whatever. I personally compare Vero V22 gen 7 vs. 1818 gen 6. Vero wins. And some members even says that 1212 is better than Cree CXB, so better than Vero V29 gen 7 D. ? What?!? What I am missing here? I only see people defend their COBs because they're selling it.