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Vero vs Citizen

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by KonopCh, Mar 15, 2017.

  1.  
    KonopCh

    KonopCh Active Member

    PS: 183 lm/W at 700 mA for Vero V22 C, 3500K, 80 CRI. For 14 dollars/euros. Beat that!
     
    SaltyNuts likes this.
  2.  
    caretak3r

    caretak3r Well-Known Member

    You can pretty much assume that the V22C will NOT out perform the Vero29C, so by inference, this chart helps quite alot when contemplating what real world performance might look like driving the v22c < 50W (as opposed to what the vero XLS calculator shows)
     
  3.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    yeah pretty much every chip seems to perform +/- a few % below 20W so cheaper chips win every time
     
    SaltyNuts and RandomHero8913 like this.
  4.  
    BuddyColas

    BuddyColas Well-Known Member

    Can't you hear MC Hammer singing, "Can't touch this!"
     
  5.  
    MeGaKiLlErMaN

    MeGaKiLlErMaN Well-Known Member


    What's the temp the lights were durring this test? And the length of time to get up to the temp?
     
  6.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    all were tested in similar patterns from low current up to high current over the same period on a big ass heat sink with a fan, roughly 3-4 minutes maybe to take 20 measurements

    the data is only relatively useful in comparison to other cobs on the same test.
     
    sanjuan, caretak3r and MeGaKiLlErMaN like this.
  7.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    Take with a huge grain of salt because so far this is just theory but I've been beating the various datasheets to death online and comparing different makes and models on youtube and on paper for over two years. So far the price to gains ratio didn't make sense with LED, despite the cool factor. ChilLed looks awesome but the cost is still high. The Quantum boards look promising but cost is still a factor there too. But the gen 7 Vero's look great on paper and the price is right in the zone. According to the V22 datasheet the $14 52V model looks like a winner if you want about 35W - 55W from the chip. That's easy to pair with a cheaper passive heat-sink to run fairly cool and you give up only a little efficiency compared to the 68V V29C gen 7. Running 700 to 1050 mA the efficiency is about 185 to 165 lm/W.

    So it's looking fairly affordable and reasonable to build a 300W-class DIY that can rival a CMH315, for about $300. Less than retail is what DIY should cost! So next time I'm thinking of an equipment upgrade I could do this instead of a CMH315 or 400W - 600W HPS and feel like the money is not extravagant. I'd actually be saving up-front, not to mention the yearly $100 savings from escaping bulb replacement. I really do want to get into an LED because of the other benefits like efficient dimming and instant on/off with no cost, and the thermal rewards.

    So here's a mockup of a fixture you could dim up or down to veg and flower with good efficiency:

    6ea - V22 @ $14ea = $84 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRE-30E6500-C-73/976-1451-ND/6152461
    6ea - 65W heatsinks = $80 https://northerngrowlights.com/collections/all/products/sst120-passive-heatsink-kit
    1 hlg-320H-C1050B = $100 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/HLG-320H-C1050B/?qs=/ha2pyFaduiCyBUOaCslb26PB1QPL5KekCurtS8tEQIT0FFikBibCg==
    plus misc parts to build, total about $300
    ~40,000 lumens at 220W (equals brightness of 400W HPS)
    ~55,000 lumens at 320W (far surpasses CMH 315 33,000 lumens)

    Two of these DIY fixtures should effectively output near the range of a 1000W HPS, for close to the MSRP of a Gavita DE 1000W unit.

    I'd go with the 35K V22 if they were in stock (best efficacy), and add some XP-E2 660nm reds for shits and giggles :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  8.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    pretty much any current cob can do this. even a 300W cree diy build is under $300, more like $200 to match a cmh (with better GPW and zero ongoing bulb costs) with the regualrly priced chips like vero/citi/luminus

    while its slow to be adopted cob has "been there" for a while vs cmh and hps... and is only gaining advantage as time rolls on
     
    Heil Tweetler likes this.
  9.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    SaltyNuts likes this.
  10.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    I'm not coming on here trying to be contrary. Quite the opposite. But that claim doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just not getting it. But the CXB3590 is almost three times the cost of the V22.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  11.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    chip cost is maybe a 1/3-1/2 of the cost considering drivers and heatsinks and holders etc.
     
    Heil Tweetler likes this.
  12.  
    DankaDank

    DankaDank Well-Known Member

    I brought up the V22C awhile ago on the basis of how underrated they are. If the Bridgelux tool is correct, then they are hands down the best cost/performance chip on the market.
     
    SaltyNuts likes this.
  13.  
    caretak3r

    caretak3r Well-Known Member

  14.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    I appreciate this kind of data, but frankly I would put more stock in the corporate datasheets. But your graph still bolsters the idea that the V22-C performs competitively with chips costing more. And 1/3 to 1/2 the cost is very significant, it could be the difference between a $300 DIY project or one costing $450. Based on what I read it seems the 52v V22-C hits the price/performance sweet spot for running in the 30W-50W range. Price is close to that for the citizen 1212, but 35W performance roughly parallels the V29-C 55W performance. Anyone using the 2700K or 3000K? Or the 6500K?
     
  15.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    theyre solid. i did not expect that poor low current data and will run the other sample i have

    irs hard to say what is the best cost/performance when looking at just chip costs

    for example look at the $17 luminus vs the $14 vero, on a chip cost level thats 20% but if you do up a build with heatsinks drivers etc at the typical $1/watt level, its gonna be 5% more at most for the chips that are going to produce 5% more par day in, day out.

    is 5% more yield 6 crops a year worth $12 in chips....i think so
     
    Heil Tweetler and SaltyNuts like this.
  16.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    For sure.
     
  17.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    I just don't see any other datasheets claiming such high lm/W ratios at such a low price as the V22-C. I know, I know, lumens, lumens, datasheets, crap, crap, but still, it's a general reference point.

    btw I like the spectral distribution chart for the CXM-27 3000K 97 CRI, big peak from 600nm- 650nm and it still has a nice bump at 450nm... I'm sure lm/W would be low, but that PPF would stoke
     
    Heil Tweetler likes this.
  18.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

  19.  
    Silver or lead

    Silver or lead Well-Known Member

    I tested the cxm22 vs the 1212 and CobKits was dead nuts on the numbers in relation to each other. I have no reason to doubt him.
     
  20.  
    SaltyNuts

    SaltyNuts Well-Known Member

    what does that mean regarding the Vero?
     

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