Water cooled COBs

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Well I wanted to leave it alone, but since you keep trying the same thing I guess I better explain.

A chiller doesn't make the heat vanish. It only moves the heat from the water into the air. You still need to get rid of it the heat or reuse it. Just like with a radiator. All tests I've seen with cooling have shown that putting in effort to cool the COBs more to gain efficiency costs more enrgy for the cooling. A chiller is just about the most expensive way of moving heat around. For what? 5% extra light for cooling the COBs by 25 degrees C. How about adding 5% more light to begin with and letting the COBs run at a more normal temperature?

If you have some actual numbers how much power chiller is using and that it's actually cheaper than adding 5% to the lights I'd love to hear. Based on just the marketing talk, I'm really not seeing it being more efficient.

You can name a whole list of applications where you might be able to use some excess heat, but lets be serious, you use none of those right? You'd need a load more tech to use it for any of those. Apart from heating the room and a radiator will do just fine for that.

I reuse the heat from the lights for the plants. There is very little left after using that for heating up the whole grow room to the same temperature instead of just the canopy. So no, I don't plug in a heater.
Click to expand...
I think you need to know a lot more about HVAC tech than you do right now to be able to keep up.

Here's the tech you've assumed I don't have, it's called a chiller with hot gas recovery. Straight up, brother; it's time to stop making assumptions and start paying attention;
20160518_183636.jpg

I'm using the cooling plant for all of my environmental control needs. The fact that I'm doing it from behind the COB instead of removing heat from the air does not change the fact that it needs to be removed.

Using a compressor is mandatory unless you have an endless source of cold, such as a stream.

I'm tired of you trying to tell me and a bunch of professionals we're all wrong when you're ignorant of the basic principles in the field. Stop being thick and crack a textbook. THEN come back and we can discuss this.
 
Growmau5

Growmau5

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Yeah no. The thing is, you keeps telling everybody to go for a chiller and I'm asking how much power it uses to see if that makes sense. That is really the only thing I have been asking.
Click to expand...
I figure the cooling part alone:
Flotech 3/4 hp pump 6.1a 230v
3hp chiller compressor. 16a / 230v

5080 watts at full bore.
Granted, that is based on a guess that it is a reciprocal compressor. If it is a scroll compressor, I'm sure the actual draw over the course of a light cycle is half that.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I think you need to know a lot more about HVAC tech than you do right now to be able to keep up.

Here's the tech you've assumed I don't have, it's called a chiller with hot gas recovery. Straight up, brother; it's time to stop making assumptions and start paying attention;
View attachment 3759666

I'm using the cooling plant for all of my environmental control needs. The fact that I'm doing it from behind the COB instead of removing heat from the air does not change the fact that it needs to be removed.

Using a compressor is mandatory unless you have an endless source of cold, such as a stream.

I'm tired of you trying to tell me and a bunch of professionals we're all wrong when you're ignorant of the basic principles in the field. Stop being thick and crack a textbook. THEN come back and we can discuss this.
Click to expand...

I see numerous code violations in that cabinet. lol. nice work, bud. you just need one of those fake fire extinguisher boxes that has break glass in case of emergency and of course a bottle of Sauvecito in place of the extinguisher. check and mate.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Yeah no. The thing is, you keeps telling everybody to go for a chiller and I'm asking how much power it uses to see if that makes sense. That is really the only thing I have been asking.
Click to expand...
i don't know crap about cobs but could you cobble together something like a CPU chiller that high end gaming computer use? seems like they are already designed to be used around electronics.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
I see numerous code violations in that cabinet. lol. nice work, bud. you just need one of those fake fire extinguisher boxes that has break glass in case of emergency and of course a bottle of Sauvecito in place of the extinguisher. check and mate.
Click to expand...
I don't have the glass box, but I do have a hammer. And half a bottle of Sauvecito left, so I'm set!

And I didn't build the cabinet full of chiller controls. Professionals did, lol
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i don't know crap about cobs but could you cobble together something like a CPU chiller that high end gaming computer use? seems like they are already designed to be used around electronics.
Click to expand...
You're right and some people have. The drawback is that they don't cool below ambient.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Growmau5 said:
I figure the cooling part alone:
Flotech 3/4 hp pump 6.1a 230v
3hp chiller compressor. 16a / 230v

5080 watts at full bore.
Granted, that is based on a guess that it is a reciprocal compressor. If it is a scroll compressor, I'm sure the actual draw over the course of a light cycle is half that.
Click to expand...
And the heating part uses only a circ pump for the heating circuit.

This chiller cools my entire op, consisting of water cooled air handlers, cooling coils for RDWC systems as well as the COBs themselves.

TThe unit is rated at 5 Tons, or 60,000 BTu of cooling. If all I was cooling was a rack of COBs, I'd only need a single Ton.
 
Uberknot

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103873
Click to expand...
churchhaze said:
80C under full load? Why even run water cooling on your CPU if you can't keep it near room temperature? I used to have a dual core AMD chip I could take to 6ghz (seriously) on air. Temps never got above 50C.
Click to expand...

Sorry not buying into 6 ghz on air at all. Pics or it did not happen.....

If you were over clocking that high you would probably need dry ice or phase change.

 
Growmau5

Growmau5

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
And the heating part uses only a circ pump for the heating circuit.

This chiller cools my entire op, consisting of water cooled air handlers, cooling coils for RDWC systems as well as the COBs themselves.

TThe unit is rated at 5 Tons, or 60,000 BTu of cooling. If all I was cooling was a rack of COBs, I'd only need a single Ton.
Click to expand...
I think you have a nice big unit there. And I think it looks really fucking cool.
 
sixstring2112

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
Growmau5 said:
I think you have a nice big unit there. And I think it looks really fucking cool.
Click to expand...
he said tty has a big unit lmao,,,really fucking cool as in aaayyye fonzy cool or buuurrr its fucking cold in here :eyesmoke:

@ttystikk got any pics of the whole thing,is it a chillking or something else? and whats retail on 5 tons watercooling ? 6 tons of minisplits with 6 wall mount heads is looking like 9000-10,500 right now unless i but the cheap shit
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
sixstring2112 said:
he said tty has a big unit lmao,,,really fucking cool as in aaayyye fonzy cool or buuurrr its fucking cold in here :eyesmoke:

@ttystikk got any pics of the whole thing,is it a chillking or something else? and whats retail on 5 tons watercooling ? 6 tons of minisplits with 6 wall mount heads is looking like 9000-10,500 right now unless i but the cheap shit
Click to expand...
Lol

It's a bit more expensive to purchase and install- which is why I mention that it's generally best for larger, more permanent installations. This unit retails around $12,500 or so. It then spends the next 20 years shaving 30 points or more of the HVAC bill every month, winter and summer.

You won't hear me calling mini splits a bad solution, especially for smaller grows.
 
sixstring2112

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
yeah man im not surprised,its closer to 13k for mitsubishi mini's on my setup.im looking at next level shit like fuji and sanyo now for those first prices.thinking im going back to basics and doing it all in conventional units and then i will still have my gas heat which is super cheap and total price drops by 4k even using 22 seer units.
does your chiller raise RH or lower or no effect?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
sixstring2112 said:
yeah man im not surprised,its closer to 13k for mitsubishi mini's on my setup.im looking at next level shit like fuji and sanyo now for those first prices.thinking im going back to basics and doing it all in conventional units and then i will still have my gas heat which is super cheap and total price drops by 4k even using 22 seer units.
does your chiller raise RH or lower or no effect?
Click to expand...
My chiller makes cold water, which then passes through the water cooled air handlers. These cool the air, and if they cool it below dew point they condense moisture from the air.

This air is now cold and 100% RH, so to compete the dehumidification cycle it needs to be warmed up. Until recently, a facilities engineer could count on that heat coming from the HID lighting, but the adoption of more efficient lighting is forcing a hunt for alternatives.

One could simply get the 'dehuey equipped' WCAH, plug the heating element in and call it good, but now you're spending electricity to make heat! This is where the hot gas recovery side of my chiller can save energy; instead of buying heat, it gives the heat you've removed back to you, conveniently pushed up the temperature gradient from 60F to 110-130F. At this temperature it's just perfect for running hot water baseboards on a thermostat and thus completing the dehuey cycle without depending on hot lighting.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
sixstring2112 said:
he said tty has a big unit lmao,,,really fucking cool as in aaayyye fonzy cool or buuurrr its fucking cold in here :eyesmoke:

@ttystikk got any pics of the whole thing,is it a chillking or something else? and whats retail on 5 tons watercooling ? 6 tons of minisplits with 6 wall mount heads is looking like 9000-10,500 right now unless i but the cheap shit
Click to expand...
Here's a pic of the entire unit;
20160506_172421.jpg
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
helpless ttystick quotes from when he was PMing me asking me how cobs work.

"If I want to run 20W/ft² of this model COB@ the wattage you specified (which was?) times 100 ft², how many would I need? What else would I need?"

[I explain some]

"Jesus, this is serious electronics. Strangely, I've been playing with the idea of using high voltage DC current... to power automotive fans in my junkyard sourced air handlers. I was told to hunt up some computer power supplies to run them. At this point, I'm just interested in the ballpark number to match the current 20W/ft²."

[I explain some more]

"If it would help, I'm planning to try three and then four 1kW HPS lamps in the same trellis rig. That's 30 and 40W/ft², respectively. Just let's assume I use multiples of your 11 COB LED setup. How many would it take per thousand watts?"

[I tell him more about how I designed my cxb build]

"I'm getting a little confused and a lot frustrated, because I keep asking the same question and getting different non answers; how many COBs per thousand watts? Just the the raw wattage, no conversions?
I can handle the rest of the horizontal to vertical calculations, but I need to know the basics; at the same wattage you run them based on the build you just completed, how many makes a thousand watts? Twelve, twenty, seventy five or...?"

[More explaination]

"I didn't want the conversion, I just wanted the raw number. Fifty of these to produce an actual thousand watts. I get that there are a lot of potential variables involved. I'm not happy with my 20W/ft² w/HPS, so that's why I wanted to look at more efficient light sources in the first place. I'm also dead certain that I have plenty of untapped headroom in terms of adding more light intensity. As I mentioned before, I'm still planning to run twice the wattage of HPS as the current setup. Grams per watt maximization is not my goal; maximum production per ft² of floor space is. Active cooling, in the form of a fan at the bottom of the trellis, aimed straight up. To me, this makes finned aluminum plates a smart choice. How many of what type of power supply to run these?"

So... rude, impatient, hopeless, and...



Then after he finally builds something (many months later), he acts like he's an expert. Remember that long period of time when he kept telling us what he was going to build? (like anyone really cared). By the way, he got "The raw numbers". He thought that PAR watts was similar to "equivalent watts" like fluorescent lamps advertise and thus "Just the the raw wattage, no conversions?". If he really didn't want conversation, he could have just copied my build. I have instructions to make one one in this section.

It's the same "spoon fed baby" story in the nutrients section. Not only does he expect someone to figure out every little detail of his plan for him, when he's finished he takes full credit, talks trash to long time experts (including the ones that helped), and even attempts to hide his work in hopes he can one day market his shit!

Considering his disrespect for the entire engineering discipline, I doubt he knows a thing about HVAC...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top