What can your runoff tell you?

GrowBigOrGrowHome

Well-Known Member
all the testing as been done for you! dont try to reinvent the wheel it already been done! and it works

i give sound advice and have grown for 15+ years successfully if you cant learn something that is probbilly the best advice in this thread then carry on my friend. i grow in soil with results that hydro grower wish they could achieve.

i can see you dont need 15 years expertise in growing weed so i bid you fear well.

my ph is out
i have leaf burn
nute lock out etc
carry on
Well, I meant no offense. I don't figure that I'm trying to reinvent the wheel, I'm just trying to understand what the runoff from my plants in a soil grow can tell me. I understand (and actually appreciate) the core of your message, that the plant will do fine without a lot of this gimicky grower additive nonsense. But that isn't really what I was talking about.

I'm not even sure what I said that was so upsetting to you. I was asking you to clarify what you meant when you said "do not worry what is in the ground worry about what is above ground that is what will tell you what you need to do." Your advice sounded rather cryptic, like Yoda riddles. I'm not sure what you meant.

If you choose to get your nose bent all out of shape if I ask you to explain what you mean, that's what you choose to do. If your advice is simply "to follow the guide" then fine. But that doesn't even attempt to answer my question. Repeating it doesn't add to the conversation.




Thanks for the link Picasso. That clarify's the pH issue very well.

Dude, I've seen your posts around on this forum. You are always awesome and super helpful. I think that you really contribute to this RIU and help make it what it is.


ok... I got out my book and read the chapter on SOIL.... it talks about soil and the importance of purchasing a good quality soil... it also talks about how a lot of these soils have nutrients already added so the plants don't need any added nutes in the first 3 weeks. So... if the soil has nutrients in it already then I'd say YES... that soil is contributing salt content to the runoff.

Now if you are not using purchased soil.... just soil from your backyard then I'd guess there are salts in it as well.... although added by mother nature instead of man.

It sounds to me like your real question is .. Is there salt in soil? I think the answer is "yes"... but how it gets there and at what rate really depends on a number of factors.

Lastly, the chapter really focused on the PH level of the soil so if you've got that under control then you are likely doing fine. In terms of nute/salt build up it recommended flushing once a month for soil.

The book I have is the medical growers bible by jorge cervantes. I really like the book... pretty good information for us noobs.

:peace:
Thank you so much for looking this up Florida Girl. As soon as I figure out how to rep someone, your getting some rep. That is great that you went and looked it up in order to try to help. Thanks again.

I wonder after months and months of growing in that same pot of soil, flushing it several times, what, if anything, is left in that soil. I doubt there are very many nutrients left at this point.
 
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GrowBigOrGrowHome

Well-Known Member
See here's the thing.... by the time you see a problem in the plant/leaves.... it's already done damage. So it's best to be proactive and carefully monitor your PH and PPM and flush every 2 or 3 weeks as a safety to prevent the buildups.

I went back and re-read this thread so far, and this bit of advice has had the most impact on me. Makes me really want to be able to decipher what my runoff is trying to tell me before the damage appears. You're one smart lady, Florida.

Thanks again.
 

9inch bigbud

Well-Known Member
Well, I meant no offense. I don't figure that I'm trying to reinvent the wheel, I'm just trying to understand what the runoff from my plants in a soil grow can tell me. I understand (and actually appreciate) the core of your message, that the plant will do fine without a lot of this gimicky grower additive nonsense. But that isn't really what I was talking about.

I'm not even sure what I said that was so upsetting to you. I was asking you to clarify what you meant when you said "do not worry what is in the ground worry about what is above ground that is what will tell you what you need to do." Your advice sounded rather cryptic, like Yoda riddles. I'm not sure what you meant.

If you choose to get your nose bent all out of shape if I ask you to explain what you mean, that's what you choose to do. If your advice is simply "to follow the guide" then fine. But that doesn't even attempt to answer my question. Repeating it doesn't add to the conversation.






Thanks for the link Picasso. That clarify's the pH issue very well.

Dude, I've seen your posts around on this forum. You are always awesome and super helpful. I think that you really contribute to this RIU and help make it what it is.




Thank you so much for looking this up Florida Girl. As soon as I figure out how to rep someone, your getting some rep. That is great that you went and looked it up in order to try to help. Thanks again.

I wonder after months and months of growing in that same pot of soil, flushing it several times, what, if anything, is left in that soil. I doubt there are very many nutrients left at this point.
im sorry my ego got the better of me i suppose.

what i meant its not what is in the soil that counts its what is above the soil that tells you what you need to do.

if the plant is nice and lime green color then you are doing all you can for it and there is no need to try and force it to grow any faster. i have seen nice looking plants turn to rust because growers try to force themost out of them.

what can run off tell you? basically you want to put 2.0 e.c in the soil when you catch the run off take a e.c reading if it over 2.0e.c then only use water untill the e.c drops if the e.c is below 2.0 then your plants are taking up the nutes and can carry on watering with feed at 2.0 e.c, but knowing soil drys out you add plain water after every other watering i.e 1 feed -1 feed - 1 water. when ou add the plain water and analize the run off to see how muck e.c is in the soil and also check the p.h and adjust accordingly.

once you know your plant there will be no need to take readings of the run off you oly need to look at the " above ground" to tell you she is doing o.k.

once again sorry for my ego if i can help you with a soil grow then ask away.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
I too have tried to learn what runoff pH is actually telling me. The info Picasso linked to seems straight forward and I'm not in a position to discount it. However, the advice I've received is that the buffering agents in the soil must remain in contact with the water for a period of time before significant buffering takes place. In other words, the solution suspended in the soil may not be the same pH as the runoff collected just after watering. This advice came from an Internet poster who's credibility I can't confirm. However, my (limited) experience in testing soil and runoff pH seems to lend credence to the idea. I've measured runoff pH from my soil at 1.0 to 0.5 points lower than a water/soil slurry.

Again, my experience is limited so I haven't come to any concrete conclusions. But my feeling at this point is that runoff pH in isolation means very little. It could be 5 or it could be 7--that doesn't necessarily mean that's the pH of the water in contact with the roots. I DO think runoff could be useful for tracking changes so I check it at every watering.

I was concerned that my Roots Organics soil runoff keeps coming out close to 5.0. I'm still mildly concerned but my plants are doing well so I'm hesitant to start messing with the soil's composition to fix a problem that may not actually exist. I just keep watering with pH 6.5 and have stopped obsessing over the runoff pH.

just $0.02
 
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9inch bigbud

Well-Known Member
I too have tried to learn what runoff pH is actually telling me. The info Picasso linked to seems straight forward and I'm not in a position to discount it. However, the advice I've received is that the buffering agents in the soil must remain in contact with the water for a period of time before significant buffering takes place. In other words, the solution suspended in the soil may not be the same pH as the runoff collected just after watering. This advice came from an Internet poster who's credibility I can't confirm. However, my (limited) experience in testing soil and runoff pH seems to lend credence to the idea. I've measured runoff pH from my soil at 1.0 to 0.5 points lower than a water/soil slurry.

Again, my experience is limited so I haven't come to any concrete conclusions. But my feeling at this point is that runoff pH in isolation means very little. It could be 5 or it could be 7--that doesn't necessarily mean that's the pH of the water in contact with the roots. I DO think runoff could be useful for tracking changes so I check it at every watering.

I was concerned that my Roots Organics soil runoff keeps coming out close to 5.0. I'm still mildly concerned but my plants are doing well so I'm hesitant to start messing with the soil's composition to fix a problem that may not actually exist. I just keep watering with pH 6.5 and have stopped obsessing over the runoff pH.

just $0.02
ph 7 is good in soil even if it low as 5 or 6 or high as 7-8 its still good. soil grown plants do not need to have perfect p.h unlike the p.h balance needed for hydro growing plants. there can be a much bigger fluctuation with soil grown plants than that of hydro grown plants.

mix 2-1 soil with vermiculite and water per hydro instructions on the bottle and you cant go far wrong. just use plane water after every 2 feeds.keep it simple and follow instructions for a big harvest messing about with run off will most pobilly end up with poor looking plants and a loss of yield.
 
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sunlihun

Active Member
well that was very helpful thanks you guys and girls i had the same questions as grow big and hawk but you summed it up for us 9 inch ty for your explanation was very helpful
 

HattoriHanzo

New Member
i know im 9years late lol.. but i just saw this and i can give u some info since im a soil grower with some exp...
idk about soil from the garden i buy the normal potting soil bags. at the beginning i give plain water and i get high ppm runoff bcz the soil contains some nutrients to get ur plants started. during my grow i use some nutrients (not too much). when i flush before harvest i use ac water consisted of 20ppm. i keep giving water to my plants till the runoff gets to 50-70 ppm range. thats when i stop. but if i keep giving water im sure i can get them to the 20s. so u c soil alone does not contribute to the runoff ppm and if it does its not worth mentioning since it does not affect u :) hope this helps
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I'm growing in soil. I've read about some people getting insight as to what is happening with their plants by either testing the pH or ppm of their runoff. Can someone please give some more information about this? I've done a search and looked in the growFAQ, but can't seem to find the info I need.

Does testing your runoff ever give you useful info if you are growing in soil? What is the correct way to test your runoff (after just plain water, after nutes, etc.)?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Run of ppm might be useful but not always.

Definitely not run off ph. There are things in soil that will effect what it reads. Testing run off can help but it can also have you chasing your tail.

I would let the plant tell you what it needs.


Damn. Another old thread.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
i know im 9years late lol.. but i just saw this and i can give u some info since im a soil grower with some exp...
idk about soil from the garden i buy the normal potting soil bags. at the beginning i give plain water and i get high ppm runoff bcz the soil contains some nutrients to get ur plants started. during my grow i use some nutrients (not too much). when i flush before harvest i use ac water consisted of 20ppm. i keep giving water to my plants till the runoff gets to 50-70 ppm range. thats when i stop. but if i keep giving water im sure i can get them to the 20s. so u c soil alone does not contribute to the runoff ppm and if it does its not worth mentioning since it does not affect u :) hope this helps
This thread is from 2008.
 
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