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Which would produce more DO in a DWC?

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by JSB99, Jul 5, 2017.

  1.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    I've got 20 square 5 gallon pails with lids I picked up for free last year but I'm going to try and do a flood and drain type setup or DTW, I solved the root issue with my setup now but want separate plants this go ;).
     
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  2.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Oh man!!! I wish I had stumbled across some. They're pricy online.
     
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  3.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Hey Noobs, this is why you always use a pond liner if you're doing any kind of hydro with a large amount of water, indoors. Flooding will happen at some point. It's inevitable. If I didn't have my liner and frame, this probably would've found it's way outside the room.
    [​IMG]


    This was an overnight test after sealing the bulkheads outside the totes with silicone. I didn't tighten one as much as I should've and the silicone wasn't enough to contain it. Now, I've sealed the female bulkhead connectors inside the totes as well. I sealed the walls as well as the threads. Also added another layer of silicone to the outside. I'm using aquarium safe 100% silicone, so it should be okay inside the totes.

    What I think happened was that I forgot to support the 2" pipe manifold, and the weight, after the water was added, pulled it off the wall. Stuff is supposed to be flexible, but maybe not that flexible.

    I'll do another test tonight.


     
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  4.  
    Ryry94

    Ryry94 Member


    [​IMG]
    Love the plant on a cart idea!
     
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  5.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    LOL! You know what they say, "Necessity is the mother of invention." :)

    I have to go up two ramps to get her in and out of the house. It's both a cart and a dolly. Got it at HD. It's really cool!
     
  6.  
    PetFlora

    PetFlora Well-Known Member

    Question doesn't recirculating mean water is constantly moving through each bucket/tote, and back to the main rez?
     
  7.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Yes
    Under Current is a type of RDWC (the "R" being "Recirculating")
     
  8.  
    PetFlora

    PetFlora Well-Known Member

    ^ That is my understanding. That being the case, all you need is to aerate the rez, either 24/7, or on a timer. I use a separate low pressure pump on a timer: 4/40. Looks like you could run one vertically

    IMG_3898.JPG
     
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  9.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Here's where I think the main difference is between RDWC and UC. With an RDWC, the water just needs to be cycled through the system so that nutes/pH is the same across the board. But UC has to have a minimum flow rate that ensures enough DO makes it through the entire system before it dissipates. The "current" also has to be powerful enough to draw the DO water through the roots, not just pass them by.

    The common formula for the right size UC pump is total gallons * 12 = GPH required
    Example:
    With a system containing 50 total gallons, circulating the total water 12 times/hour requires a 600GPH pump.

    My current pump is undersized @ 400GPH in my 50 gallon UC system. However, because I have the stones going, the under current isn't as vital. So right now I'm running an "RDWC", not an "Under Current". If I increase my pump size to the correct size required for an under current, the airstones aren't as necessary, even though I'd still use them so that the roots get an abundance of DO. That's why when you look at the CC UC systems, they include an air pump. In theory, with a UC, the water pump should be powerful enough so that an air pump isn't necessary.
     
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  10.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    I think you hit the key for UC, get the DO into the roots interior and not just the outer portion. I see a lot of great root balls only to find the middle portion is suffering from lack of circulation. I want do a flood and drain type deal with pails but need to add and remove pails as required for perpetual. Still trying to figure it out though lol.
     
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  11.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Exactly!

    Why would you need to change out pails with a perpetual grow? Are you talking about when moving plants from veg to flower? When I had mine set up, the buckets were permanent and I would transfer from veg to flower via the plants and the lids. I'll explain:

    My veg buckets were 2-gallon and my flower buckets were 5-gallon. The smaller 2-gallon lids had the netpots, while the 5-gallon lids only had the hole cut out for the size of the netpots. When I moved the plants, I just set the 2-gallon lids w/plants in netpots on top of the 5-gallon lids with the hole cut out. This method requires doubling up on 2-gallon lids and netpots.
     
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  12.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Everything's running good. No leaks, good flow, and great bubbles!

    Got my rooted clones in there. Light @ 450w, 16k - 18k lumens at the tops, tds - 280ppm, pH - 5.9, water temp - 79f.

    I'm not going to be able to afford a chiller just yet. However, we've only got a few more weeks until it starts getting cool. The floor will be plenty cool, especially around October. If I'm still having an issue, I could probably rig up a stainless wort coil, and use a large res for chilling. Another idea would be to cut the floor just large enough so a small tote can be suspended from the floor, exposing the majority of the tote to the elements in the crawl space under the house. Then I'd fill it with water and put the second wort coil in it. I'm only going to be growing outside during the summer, so I'm not worried about the warm season. I'm not really sure how that'd work when it's really cold out. I could rig up a thermostat that runs the wort coil pump, to cool the system, when it got above 68.

    After this grow I'm going to cut two additional holes for netpots, closer to the center on both the x and y. That way I can have the plants closer together and bring the light down more, as well as dropping the wattage more. I had to set mine to 75% (450w) to get good coverage. With the plants closer to center, I don't have to have the light nearly as high.
    [​IMG]

    Plants are plenty comfy
    [​IMG]

    I cut an easy-access hole in the lid. It works pretty good, but I have to make it bigger. It's a little tricky reading the pens and pouring nutes. I use a piece of pond liner to cover the hole for now.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    Actually perfect, that's what I had planned for my trays but didn't work out, that's was 6 plants moved at a time and no room lol.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  14.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    Just a thought but I put the reflective bubble wrap on my res tops to cut down on temps and it did help but mine were black, yellow may be ok, perhaps to much light maybe in the root zone?
     
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  15.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know the actual gallons this 27-gallon tote holds? I'm trying to guess the number of gallons for my nutes/pH. Is there a way to determine the number of gallons, besides the obvious "pour n-gallon containers of water one at a time and mark the levels"?

    I'm thinking that the 2" pipes and 3 of these totes, filled to that level, would be around 80 gallons. Around the third week of veg, I usually drop the level around mid-way.

    [​IMG]
     
  16.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    I was wondering that myself. I siliconed the exposed edges around the netpots, where light could get through. All I had was clear silicone, but I think it did the trick. I'm thinking of getting a little Panda Wrap. Haven't priced it yet, but I know my budget is $0, so I can't afford it now anyways :lol: As an alternative, I have a full box of kitty litter garbage bags that are white and fairly thick. They're odd shaped, but I think that might actually work better. I was thinking of cutting and pasting the bags to the lids (If only it was as easy as "cutting and pasting" on the computer LOL!)
     
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  17.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    The white plastic would be better than nothing and nope I have no clue the exact size, I've always just used 25 gallons as the size :(
     
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  18.  
    WeedFreak78

    WeedFreak78 Well-Known Member

    A clothes iron on low heat can form a flat on the side of the bucket. Have a towel with cool water to set it once it's flat. IDK if the fittings will still fit if you flatten out the buckets you already drilled, the holes might go oblong during the forming.

    Nevermind... Didn't read to the end before posting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  19.  
    WeedFreak78

    WeedFreak78 Well-Known Member

    Volume = Length × width × water depth. Then convert Cubic Inches to Gal. I've scribed lines inside all my buckets in 2L increments and totes in 4L increments. There's self adhesive measuring tape out there you could always stick on the inside of the tote, then figure out water volume per inch, or however you want to gauge it. Another trick s a marked dowel with a foam ball on the end. Drill a hole for the dowel to stick out the top of the lid with graduations. The foam ball floats in the res, as water level drops, you'll see it on the dowel.

    We used this to monitor coolant levels in machines that didn't have easy access to the cooling reservoir. Its an easy visual indicator.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  20.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    The totes (well mine) are not square so it's tough to get a real accurate volume, that's why I just take off a couple of gallons from total capacity, I never fill to the top to allow for more waterfall effect. Also I never actually measure other than use a clear container with 50 ml marks to add nutes.
     
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