Why did we vote no?

Ernst

Well-Known Member
I want to share my reply to that here.

---------------------------------------
Why did we vote no. By Ernst Berg

First off I voted yes but I was a no vote. I campaigned the grow sites and politics forums till in the end days I was welcomed to leave for daring to host a thread on prop 19 being a new form of prohibition.
With the property ownership requirements and the prop 19 only allowing property to have a cannabis garden of a really small size the people were left to buy their cannabis from "Wet Counties."
So what killed prop 19?
On the grand scale it would be the Political Trifecta of the Mexican Cannabis bust of 105+ tons. Then there was the passage of the On the Spot Tax of $100 for possession of less than an ounce that offered some voters a reason to vote no once again and the Secretariat of our trifecta, the thundering restatement through the media of the Federal Government's Mission Statement of Vigorously enforcing Federal Laws against Cannabis. They stated they would get the doctors when prop 215 passed remember?
On the home front we had fears of Big Box growers pushing out the little people in an economic down turn and we had the faithful who worship the one true legalization-god and you can count me in that sect.
So that is really a fair run down because since I gathered signatures for another unfunded legalization initiative in the 2009 season I know we didn't know the difference between legalization and decriminalization for the most part right on through today in fact.
Even today we have factions in the Cannabis community that want to keep it "Medical only" because the prices are favorable to small scale private farmers and their market system is established and closed to most all of us except to buy cannabis. They are not in favor of free markets so how do we do it in 2012?
Simply we appeal to the greed of the people. We support the 5 things in some form. http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=202
1. Make Cannabis legal for all adults.
2. Allow the maximum number of plants we can get away with
3. Allow private citizens to trade cannabis between themselves
4 Create a central state authority to manage things
5. Create a Medical Bill of Rights

We may well want to argue that real cannabis freedom is bad for business or that if my neighbor can trade cannabis that it will legalize drug dealing as reasons we shouldn't embrace democratic rights to cannabis but, short of starting over and making rights to cannabis equal for all getting enough of the voters to vote yes will be a fools game.
That Fools game is playing "Keep-Away" with true legal freedoms with the cannabis plant for all Californians.
Realize while we can use cannabis for medical or only pay $100 if we are caught with less than an ounce it is still ILLEGAL and worse things can happen like having your children taken from you for example.
Also realize that each time we voted no the current market system gets another two year extension on a cannabis control.
California Cannabis industry as it stands today in 2010 has nothing to lose by wasting another election cycle getting another initiative on the ballot for us vote no on.
Think about it.. To keep it illegal and to keep the market closed is just what the Doctor ordered. Literally. Who knows if we fail in 2012 maybe the people will just give up?
. The first coherent and organized article I saw after November 2 2010 was one publishing early statistics on how the vote went with a suggestion we wait for 2014 and another midterm to try again. Knowing who was behind that, a big time dispensary owner, I realized what the game was. It is called waste our time and efforts while keeping the market as closed as possible and even Mexico agrees with that from what I gather. Notice the lack of concerns from our southern neighbors now?
I found that article to be obvious in what the current members of California's cannabis industry wants. Not to truly legalize cannabis for the people.

So friends.. Why don't we give real legalization a go in 2012.
I host California2012.org and I say let us set the Golden Standard for Cannabis freedom and give back the rights to Cannabis Horticulture to the people.
After all would we stand for vegetables being made illegal to grow and share because some corporation makes profits in selling them?
Appeal to the individual greed in 2012 and allow them 99+ plants and private trade between California residents to get a passage of an true-legalization initiative in 2012. After all if Cannabis can save Humboldt it should be allowed to save us all if needs be!

Ernst Berg [email protected]
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Don't worry that is Godaddy's problem.. Just hit Ctl-F5 to load any site fresh.

There are some conflicts in the database server they are working on I understand.
 
We were looking for Cali. to be the guinea pig for legal marijuana but it seems there is more work to be done not just in Ca. but everywhere.

I was hoping I got that post off here in time but I see you saw it, internet and their sketchy wiring, lol.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
I am going to spread this conversation to other sites now.

Think about really legalizing in 2012 not just partial-legalization for people and huge legalization for business.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
We were looking for Cali. to be the guinea pig for legal marijuana but it seems there is more work to be done not just in Ca. but everywhere.
yes! And it is happening.

The ringing or the Canna-Freedom bell in California has inspired folks in New Zealand and Australia as well as people in Africa who are now making building materials out of cannabis since the vote!
 

medicineman

New Member
There are some small time growers on this site that make bank on keeping Medical only. I never thought I'd see the day that selfishness in the pot community would keep the masses from enjoying the same status as medical users and growers, but I guess that's the way of the world nowdays. For all I know, there may be some big time growers on here also. There were quite a few opposed to prop 19, it's all about the benjamins.
 

brownbearclan

Active Member
There are some small time growers on this site that make bank on keeping Medical only. I never thought I'd see the day that selfishness in the pot community would keep the masses from enjoying the same status as medical users and growers, but I guess that's the way of the world nowdays. For all I know, there may be some big time growers on here also. There were quite a few opposed to prop 19, it's all about the benjamins.
Yep and I think it stinks. I'd agree that it seems like that's how it is now, money before people. I was literally shocked to see people in the cannabis community voting against it, I always assumed this was the one thing we could always agree on. =(

2012, make it happen! =)
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
There are some small time growers on this site that make bank on keeping Medical only. I never thought I'd see the day that selfishness in the pot community would keep the masses from enjoying the same status as medical users and growers, but I guess that's the way of the world nowdays. For all I know, there may be some big time growers on here also. There were quite a few opposed to prop 19, it's all about the benjamins.
You were the last person I thought that would state a libertarian viewpoint on this...

But I agree that it's amazing to me that so many otherwise politically aware people can't see that all this proposition boiled down to is who gets the money - both in the pro *and* anti-prop. 19 voting camps. The real problem and issue surrounding marijuana is the existence of draconian prohibition laws. And prop. 19 totally missed the mark in addressing this and instead: it's all about the money for the people voting and all about the money for the state/county/city governments involved.

Money is what started this mess w/ marijuana in the first place. Money is what drives organized crime and the harm that causes to society as well as the need for law enforcement to crack down on the crime. Money is why politicians take up the issue. Money is why a majority of voters voted the way they do. Nothing has changed in regards to the money and nothing has changed with a majority of the people who were motivated to vote on prop. 19.

The only way out of this mess is to concentrate on repealing prohibition in the long-run. Everything else is just a continuation of the same old business.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
There are some small time growers on this site that make bank on keeping Medical only. I never thought I'd see the day that selfishness in the pot community would keep the masses from enjoying the same status as medical users and growers, but I guess that's the way of the world nowdays. For all I know, there may be some big time growers on here also. There were quite a few opposed to prop 19, it's all about the benjamins.
Are you in favor of promoting legalization for the people separate from any language for drug policy or business?

Have you seen the list of the 5 Things? http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=202

It's a rough draft and it has been suggested to make the age of legal adult a separate ballot initiative.

I think that California does indeed have a role to play in Cannabis legalization but it has to be a Deep-Blue-State solution and simple legalization for People is the kind of Deep-Blue-State I am thinking.

Since Cannabis Industry is advancing in spite of it being a crime for that average citizen suggests to me it is time to swing way liberal and bring the People the rights to Cannabis.
Otherwise are we not just advancing the prohibition-profiteers up and keeping the people who pay too high prices down?
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Yep and I think it stinks. I'd agree that it seems like that's how it is now, money before people. I was literally shocked to see people in the cannabis community voting against it, I always assumed this was the one thing we could always agree on. =(

2012, make it happen! =)
Well you mean voting against prop 19?

Did you see that canna-freedom for the people was missing?

First proper horticulture need more than a 5x5 area. For example if we cross strains to improve the strains for medical for example we need to grow out maybe 100 plants of that cross to find, document and select the genetic diversity.
From that we would be working with clones to keep the genetics in a pre-flowering state so, 200 plants could be a minimum just to breed seeds!
So the idea that each plant is a production unit is false. That is the GREED right there and it was industrial in size!

It is a plant. It is not a produced by man product like alcohol so we really cannot treat the two the same.

Cannabis prices should be allowed to seek their level after we re-legalize for the people I am saying.
http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=202 This is a list of 5 things I feel a For the People initiative in 2012 must be!.
I am alright with a separate business initiative but when we roll all the issues of Freedom for the People, Drug policy ( age and punishment ) and Business into one when that loses the only real losers in that initiative failing is the People as we see by our current laws on the books and the Cannabis Lobby in Washington D.C.

What I am trying hard to do is wake our Canna-people up. If we lose in 2012 with an ALL-IN-ONE Initiative business and canna-crimes are still protected but the people will be left behind.

It is much better that we play it safe and seperate the issues in 2012. One for the People , one for Drug policy and one for business. Three initiatives so that we can get rights for people and not have the weight of business and drug policy around the people's neck in 2012.



 

canuckgrow

Well-Known Member
Given modern governments propensity for corruption I would vote to keep them totally out of MM for ever.
 

brownbearclan

Active Member
Yeah the devil is in the details, I read there were some wonky things in Prop. 19 that needed fixed but overall I think it would have been a good first step. The governor's bill that reduced anything under an oz. to a civil infraction was a step in the right direction even though it didn't really address the problem of suppliers.

Given modern governments propensity for corruption I would vote to keep them totally out of MM for ever.
I think ideally people would like to be able to have MJ and not have to worry about going to jail over it, that being the ultimate goal which requires legalization. I hear ya though, once big money/politics gets involved it gets all mucked up. =)
 
Top