MY DIY 21st Century 'Flood' & Drain

[PetFlora]

I hear you, in theory, but I brought home a damn nice plant under ~ 80w-100w, between a 90w ufo + supplemental bulbs, so I am not as convinced as you are that 80 lm/w is bad or mediocre (1600/22= almost 80 w/l). Big difference from 70

The only way we know for sure is to try, and I will keep my receipt

 

[PetFlora]

I needed to add more light to my LED tent ASAP, so instead of waiting until tomorrow for my update, here it is.

I picked up a new 22w/1600 lm 3000K bulb from Lowes ($35), see pics (it's whiter than I expected for being 3K K.

Also a quick update on my BrandX WHx. For seeds that went through washer and dryer, they look amazing. Last 2 pics are with/without my ufo.

After asking Polyarcturus (BrandX) about the light green, but otherwise very healthy plants, he told me the WHx is both a light and nute nymp-ho, so I doubled the ppms to 400 and flipped on the ufo yesterday, but unplugged it this morning, after adding the new bulb. FYI it is a longer bulb, probably due tosize of heat sink needed for 22w.

I have a clone in lower left corner which is proper shade of green, so it's not the nutes, or lighting

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HOT5

 

[PetFlora]

FYI this is the timer I recommend for MY DIY 21st Century Top Spray & Drain. Increasing or decreasing o/o times is a simple twist of the dials


http://cheaphydroponics.com/store/timers/grozone-cycle-timer-2/prod_848.html

Going to be ordering some o these too

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/20cm-E27-to-E27-Extend-Extension-LED-Light-Lamp-Adapter-Converter-Socket-/221117074302?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item337b9acb7e
[/URL]

 

[Chronikool]

See im not that lazy! Space age looking LED huh? You said it is whiter for 3000k then you expected. You think it is 3000k? I dont think my floods are that warmer white either...but they do work so.

Lovely looking girls bruv.

 

[PetFlora]

Whoa, welcome MBFAM

The 22w WW definitely looks cooler than the 12.5w Philips WW. Could be double the wattage makes it look whiter, or their RP blend is cooler. Hard to say, but since adding it this morning the WHx top lefs have grown quite a bit, as has #3- let's call her Tinkerbell for now

I picked up the turkey holder. It's a bit too short, but I can cut to fit.

 

[PetFlora]

Been a busy morning, fresh nutes for each system, then...

replaced my 4 bulb vanity with a much sturdier 3 bulb and cut the roasting pan. The side walls of the pan are not deep as I would like but...

The 4 bulb will work fine for side lighting in the HOT5 tent

WHx is loving the increased light & higher ppm nutes

Lower left is a clone from my upstairs clones

Tinkerbell has reached above the net pot and has 2 leaf set

 

[PetFlora]

Since adding the 22w and rearranging bulb positions so that the 5000K is in the center with 2 RP WWs (3000K) on either side they are growing before my eyes. In fact they are so much bigger this morning than yesterday.




Examining the ratio: 2 WW (3000K) bulbs totaling ~2000 lumens + 6.5w of 5000K totaling 490 lumens (with globe removed) 490/2000=~ 25% NW:W. Keep in mind the WW bulbs have some blue in them, and since they are RP (remote phosphor) the globes cannot be removed.

I will be transferring them into a deeper tote this morning​

 

[PSUAGRO.]

They look happy^^^ no complaints from me, ha............All you use is V&B nutes right??

 

[PetFlora]

Yep, but I've never experienced such a light shade of green using essentially the same up for 2 grows.

Their color is quite similar to my avatar

 

[Redoctober]

Wonderful thread Flora! I will probably be creating some version of this myself. I was going to do DWC buckets with air stones but it is such a pain in the ass to change the solution on multiple buckets every week not to mention all the nutrient solution that gets used. It's really inefficient. That's what I like about LP aero. I was surprised to hear you say that HP aero burns through so much solution, is that because you don't have an accumulator? Or is it because it is D2W? I thought HP was supposed to be extremely efficient? I'm also gonna give that V&B a try. I've heard good things about it and even though I just restocked on H&G (which I really do like a lot), you just can't beat that $20 price point! If my regular tap water normally has a ppm of about 250 should I get the V&B for soft RO water or hard tap water? I thought I remember someone saying in some other thread that Hydro Research says that unless your tap water is over 350 or 400, you can use the soft water version; does that sound right?

I originally wanted to do your type of system because I hate hydroton. Actually I hate grow medium in general and the only downside to growing sans-medium is that anchoring the plants can be challenging. With nothing but a net pot and a neopprene disc holding it in place, plants tend to fall over. I can't tell you how many mornings I've awakened to the horrifying site of a big plant lying on the ground having escaped its bucket. I don't have much experience with lava rocks but I thought that maybe they would be a nice compromise.

Are these what you are using? - http://www.homedepot.com/buy/vigoro-05-cu-ft-decorative-stone-red-lava-rock-440897.html

Oh I should also mention that I have reveged clones from flowering plants and depending upon how far into flower you are when you take them, it can be a looong time before they start vegging again. It's totally normal. For instance I have a few reveged clones that have just started sprouting new vegetation after 6-7 weeks of sitting in my cloner. And they do grow weird mutant leaves for a little while until they stabilize. They actually produce good mother plants because the node density is very high for some reason and they throw out a ridiculous amount of branches. I've heard this referred to as "monster cropping." Some people only flower reveged plants for this reason.

 

[PetFlora]

Red, good to see you here!

Yes, unless one uses an accumulator the duration of each spray needs to be > 3-4Xs longer. In addition to an accumulator/solenoids, gauges... you also need a timer that is accurate < 0.5 seconds. I wasn't willing to add that complexity or expense, especially when my early DIY was growing bigger, faster.

Now, I find I need to check pH/ppms every 2 days in veg, daily in flower

Call Hydro-Research for answers to HW formula v RO, which I use

Can't really tell by that photo, but it appears to be the same stuff. I also use ornamental rock from Dollar store. This I use inside the 3"+ net pots, to add weight and to distribute the roots farther around the net pot. Once they are sufficiently rooted, I drop the whole net pot into a 1 liter AP- minimal stress. Also use ornamental rock as a cap over the Air Pots, which contain the lava rock. I too had plants falling over, but I was using smallest net pots + HPA and the roots would grow towards the spray heads causing the plants to lose balance,

My sat dom clones are considerably shorter than the mother, but with tons of bud sights.

 

[Redoctober]

I gotcha Great system you have built, I am impressed with it's elegance and simplicity! Are accumulators very expensive? I briefly did a search for them on google and ebay and there are like a million different varieties and pressure ratings. They seemed to range from $50 all the way up to $2000, but those were rated for ridiculously high pressures like 3000psi or something. I've always wanted to try HPA but I'm going to do your F&D style system first. Right now I have a LP aero 6" PVC tube system with a central rez and a mist head on either side of each plant site. It has it's upsides and it's downsides but overall it's a pretty efficient and worthwhile system. Plant's grow fast and well, but removing a single plant as I must do now can be challenging because the roots all grow together into a single rootmass, so I end up having to severely chop the roots of a plant. They seem to recover fine though after they regrow their rootmass.

What I'm envisioning utilizing your F&D style system for myself is to have an airpot within a 5 gallon bucket and a single plant in there which I can grow to a bigger size. It would also be modular in that I could take out an individual bucket or add one if needed, and daisychain several together. So I think that if I fill in the space between the airpot and the bucket with lava rock, it should nicely stabilize the plant. I've never used airpots before so I have absolutely no idea how to size them properly for a roughly 4 foot high by 4 foot diameter plant. What would you think for something like this?

Also how powerful is your pump? I have a 400gph ActiveAqua submersible pump that I'm not currently using for anything. Would this work, and how many sprinkler heads do you think I could power with a pump that size?

 

[PetFlora]

6" PVC, like a NFT system? MJ roots grow way too big for NFT.

There are still a couple HPA active threads around. Check them for solenoids, etc.

Instead of single buckets (each of which needs a drain back), why not go with one large tote and APs? I use small one liter APs, to start, then simply transfer into larger AS, and let the roots grow through the smaller into the larger

I think my pump is ~ 300g. Keep in mind they are speced for how high they can push water. Since we're not doing that a small pump is sufficient

 

[PetFlora]

It seems that BrandX WHx likes more blue in veg than is typically recommended. Since replacing the 6.5w/5000K/490 lumen with the 12w/5000K/1100 lumen bulb, the plants are ~ 50% bigger. Now full disclosure, I also upped ppms from 450 to 600, which I never would expect to do at such an early stage of development

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[polyarcturus]

stink? i got one that just reeks still in veg. they are F1s afterall, hybrid vigor and all that jazz, so im not too surprised they need such heavy feeding.

they still look a little pale and a little something with the cal/mag and iron going from that leaf curl. could be a micro nutrient def. try using a little powdered up vitamin pill to the res, just a dash, like if you where adding salt to a steak i have no other way to tell you to measure it.

 

[PetFlora]

Stink... did I mention stink? No stink yet, but upstairs there is/was. I moved my neg ion generator in there after reading it's good until flowering
Only one leaf tip has a curl at the end. The 22w bulb was to close, cause the bitches be growin so fast. Had to raise the fixture up

Also, I had too much fan on them. I pulled it back this morning. I find that if the fan is too powerful it causes plants to dry out. I compensate upstairs by using a timer- 15 on/30 off; but do not have another timer, so I pulled it back, and can shut it off for a while

Oh, under natural light, they are almost the right shade of green now, so the extra blue and/or nute ppms is working

 

[Trichy Bastard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2KGa4Ysxq0

I've always hated florescent lighting (I can see the flickering and it gives me migraines), now I think I'm glad I am still sporting my G.E. Reveal bulbs (beautiful color light without the yellow dingy-ness) and I plan to until the led's finally get nice and bright enough... Lighting is really important to me, and I think so many people don't realize how much it affects ambiance and even your mood- I am willing to pay more for good clean light in my home and businesses. Thanks for this link Pet, really made me feel good as I was beginning to feel a little guilty at all the extra electricity I've been using over the years in resisting the cfl's, like the jump I made from windows xp to windows 7, skipping Vista, I also plan to go from incandescents to led, skipping right over cfl's...

 

[PetFlora]

TB, welcome! Years ago I replaced a number of incandescent interior bulbs with either CFL or halogens, but now upgrading them to leds

 

[PetFlora]

Been discussing my pale green dilemma with SDS on his LED thread. He makes a valid scientific argument that is hard to refute. Although the pale has mostly changed to a healthy green, it coulld well have been the low ppm. They are now getting ~ 650ppm

OK, so my pale green problem could have been due to low ppm for this strain, and not low 5000K.

Just replaced the 5000K/850 lumen with a 3000K/450 lumen

Easy enough to swap back.

You can't do that with fixed panels

 

[Chronikool]

Good work bruv....