Nazi and KKK Terrorists denied the annual right to terrorize Charlottesville

Fogdog said:

I have no idea where you get this idea that Nazis weren't favored and funded by the powerful in Germany. Hitler only got 5 years for his attempt at overthrowing the government in 1921 that included deaths of four police officers and the destruction of a newspaper and hostage taking. He only served one year. Even then he had a multi-room suite with a view, a secretary and was able to have as many visitors as he wanted. This is not the treatment one gives to the leader of a suppressed political movement. Where do you think his support and the tremendous funding he received came from?

In the 1920's Nazis were supported and funded not only by grass roots members but also by wealthy German industrialists (also Henry Ford) who thought they could use them to contain communism. By the late 1920's, the Nazis had a private army that was estimated to be between 400,000 to more than a million strong. They were used to break the back of the communist movement in Germany. They had training facilities, camps, weapons, uniforms, professional military leadership, the works. They outnumbered and outgunned Germany's professional army by the time the depression hit. After that, it was the Wiemar Republic that struggled to maintain power, not Hitler.

So, just go away with this idea of a suppressed Nazi movement is why it grew.

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I was referring to the recent rally and you know it.

Confine your silly misinterpretations to your own misconceptions.

ttystikk said:

I think you missed the sarcasm dripping from my post.

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ttystikk said:

I was referring to the recent rally and you know it.

Confine your silly misinterpretations to your own misconceptions.

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Jesus

In both of your posts, you distanced yourself from your own stupid comments by claiming I "just didn't understand you". We have two examples where that your claims are proven false.

In the first, you said that the education system wasn't up to the job through a cynical sideswipe at our educational system. I quite rightly said the educational system was doing just fine at the job of teaching kids about diversity with the example that millennial are embracing diversity better than your generation has.

In the second, you did in fact fabricate the historical claim that Hitler rose to power because his movement was put down, a reference I made here and you doubled down by repeating the now clearly false claim that violence used as defense against fascist violence only makes it worse. Just read your post in my sig before you deny your false historical claim.

German Nazi-Fascism rose to power because Germany's powerful coddled it and funded its rise. Recent opposition to Trumpist fascism has them on the back foot, they are having trouble getting permits to demonstrate and where they demonstrate crowds many times that of the fascists show up and put fear into them. They now carry guns because they are afraid of us. They stay behind police protective cordons. They didn't even try to walk our streets yesterday.

You lost the argument. Abandoning the streets to allow fascism to flourish is your dumb idea and proven false. Defending the streets from them through thoughtful resistance and defensive force when necessary is succeeding.

it is and it isn't. until we fix some major societal problems, there will always be more of these people. you can't hunt them out of existence, it's not a breed, it's an ideology. you can kill them all and wipe out any reference to it, and it'll happen again, unless you fix the causes of it.
i'm not a psychologist, or a sociologist, but i know some things have to change if we expect things to get better.

Fogdog said:

Jesus

In both of your posts, you distanced yourself from your own stupid comments by claiming I "just didn't understand you". We have two examples where that your claims are proven false.

In the first, you said that the education system wasn't up to the job through a cynical sideswipe at our educational system. I quite rightly said the educational system was doing just fine at the job of teaching kids about diversity with the example that millennial are embracing diversity better than your generation has.

In the second, you did in fact fabricate the historical claim that Hitler rose to power because his movement was put down, a reference I made here and you doubled down by repeating the now clearly false claim that violence used as defense against fascist violence only makes it worse. Just read your post in my sig before you deny your false historical claim.

German Nazi-Fascism rose to power because Germany's powerful coddled it and funded its rise. Recent opposition to Trumpist fascism has them on the back foot, they are having trouble getting permits to demonstrate and where they demonstrate crowds many times that of the fascists show up and put fear into them. They now carry guns because they are afraid of us. They stay behind police protective cordons. They didn't even try to walk our streets yesterday.

You lost the argument. Abandoning the streets to allow fascism to flourish is your dumb idea and proven false. Defending the streets from them through thoughtful resistance and defensive force when necessary is succeeding.

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No, you deliberately misrepresented me.

You're making a habit of it.

If you have to be so intellectually dishonest to make your arguments, I'm not the one who lost the debate.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

it is and it isn't. until we fix some major societal problems, there will always be more of these people. you can't hunt them out of existence, it's not a breed, it's an ideology. you can kill them all and wipe out any reference to it, and it'll happen again, unless you fix the causes of it.
i'm not a psychologist, or a sociologist, but i know some things have to change if we expect things to get better.

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Funny how it seems to come out the most when societies are under stress from extreme income and wealth inequality, isn't it?

Maybe restoring economic balance is a solution that would help people feel more in control of their own lives and spend less time looking for outsiders to blame for their problems.

Just a thought...

ttystikk said:

No, you deliberately misrepresented me.

You're making a habit of it.

If you have to be so intellectually dishonest to make your arguments, I'm not the one who lost the debate.

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Quoting you directly within the context of the discussion is not misrepresentation. The facts show you to be wrong in every regard.

Nazi-fascism did not just get more determined and stronger due to violent suppression. Quite the opposite happened. History showed that Hilter was a good political strategist and he took full advantage of people who tried to negotiate peace with him.

Ever since antifa and other like-minded people put up resistance including defensive force to Trumpist fascists, they have been losing ground and have practically retreated back in their internet caves where they can do less harm.

I have no problem with you clinging to the false belief that peaceful protests are always the answer so long as you don't make up historical facts to justify a belief that is not based upon facts. All you need to say is "I believe" thus and such and I'll refute it but I can't say you don't believe it. Then again, it's not very convincing to others.

Fogdog said:

Quoting you directly within the context of the discussion is not misrepresentation. The facts show you to be wrong in every regard.

Nazi-fascism did not just get more determined and stronger due to violent suppression. Quite the opposite happened. History showed that Hilter was a good political strategist and he took full advantage of people who tried to negotiate peace with him.

Ever since antifa and other like-minded people put up resistance including defensive force to Trumpist fascists, they have been losing ground and have practically retreated back in their internet caves where they can do less harm.

I have no problem with you clinging to the false belief that peaceful protests are always the answer so long as you don't make up historical facts to justify a belief that is not based upon facts. All you need to say is "I believe" thus and such and I'll refute it but I can't say you don't believe it. Then again, it's not very convincing to others.

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Another walk of text to hide the fact that you misrepresented what I said.

If you can't debate fairly, don't try to pin the blame on me when I call you out on it.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

it is and it isn't. until we fix some major societal problems, there will always be more of these people. you can't hunt them out of existence, it's not a breed, it's an ideology. you can kill them all and wipe out any reference to it, and it'll happen again, unless you fix the causes of it.
i'm not a psychologist, or a sociologist, but i know some things have to change if we expect things to get better.

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Totally agree that we have major societal problems. From what I've seen, the radical right who side with Trump and his neo-fascists are pushing policies that are the major causes of those problems too. Theirs is a right wing authoritarian movement and fascism is quite consistent with all of their policies.

I don't accuse you or tty of being on their side. I think you are misguided in thinking that they will go away if we don't put up a defensive fight. tty on the other hand is hopeless.

As you say, fascists or dictators or nationalist populists who glorify use violence to achieve their ends will not just just go away. They are like weeds that must be firmly suppressed. Like weeds, they spread seeds so you have to go back suppress them. Not hunt or kill, suppress them and they will eventually die off. Demographics are shifting and within 10 or 15 years there will be so few of them left that they will represent little threat.

This is not over either. Neo-fascists are only on the back foot for now. I expect Trump and the radical right wing to step up their violence after they lose control of Congress. I also expect the recession that Trump is making deeper through his policies will bring out the very worst in the neo-fascist crowd.

We are succeeding at suppressing neo-fascism from projecting power onto the streets of our cities through activism and defensive force. It is they who are putting people in the hospital or doing the killing. We are taking the hits and receiving the criticism. I am pointing this out to clarify the difference between what we are doing and what the Trump-fascists are doing.

ttystikk said:

Another walk of text to hide the fact that you misrepresented what I said.

If you can't debate fairly, don't try to pin the blame on me when I call you out on it.

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I accept your concession.

In Charlottesville, the fascists attempted to provoke violence, and indeed one of their adherents drove his car into the anti-fascists, killing Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old activist, and injuring many others. Justin Moore, the Grand Dragon for the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan said plainly: “I’m glad that girl died.” Andrew Anglin, editor of the website The Daily Stormer, wrote that he was also glad that Heather Heyer died because she was unmarried and had no children. Anglin found her life, therefore, of “no value”. The harsh invective from the American Right combines hatred of women with hatred of minorities. It is a kind of toxicity that is familiar from the White House.

Steve Bannon

Donald Trump’s senior adviser, Steve Bannon, hastily left the White House a few days after the events in Virgina. By all accounts, he had planned to leave in the next few weeks. The Nazi rally in Charlottesville, greatly embarrassing for the Republican Party, hastened his departure. Bannon had come to Trump’s side a year ago from his perch at Breitbart News, a pillar of the Nazi-style American Right. He had shouted about the decline of white power and of the erosion of America’s role in the world. Bannon wanted Trump to withdraw from trade deals and to be more aggressive with U.S. military action abroad. Multilateralism and globalism remain the enemies for Bannon. His close association with the “alt-right”, the Nazi variant of the American Right, meant that Trump was being isolated increasingly from even moderate Republicans. Bannon had to go.

But Bannon had already indicated that he wanted to go. He felt that Trump’s agenda had been hijacked by the multilateralists and globalists acting through Trump’s family members Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. They had been able to influence Trump and bring him closer to the U.S. consensus. Bannon met with his close allies, the billionaire Mercer family, who indicated that they would finance Bannon’s return to his “killing machine” at Breitbart from where he could both go “thermonuclear” against the globalists and put pressure on Trump. It is being said that Bannon might create a mainstream television channel from where he can reach a wider audience than from his website. Bannon believes that “Donald Trump” was his creation and that without him there will be no backbone in the White House.

Resistance

The fight-back in Charlottesville was repeated across the country. Decent people joined the Left groups to ensure that the American Right is not allowed to use the fig leaf of “free speech” to command public space. A massive demonstration in Boston (Massachusetts) ensured that the gathering of the American Right had to hastily disband. It was simply run out of town.

The resistance is not merely in the north but also in the south. In Knoxville (Tennessee), the Vanguard group of Nazis tried to rally for their fetid ideas of white power. They were met by the Anti-Racist Action’s clown bloc. When the Nazis chanted “white power”, the clowns asked “white flour?”. They danced around throwing flour in the air, disrupting the Nazi sternness with calculated fun. When the Nazis repeated their slogan, the clowns changed their question to “white flower?” and danced around throwing white flowers in the air. “White Power”, the Nazis chanted in desperation. The women among the clowns now said “We understand” and unveiled new signs that read “WIFE power”. They skipped about chanting “wife power” as the leader of the Nazis, Alex Linder, was arrested for trying to attack them.

They will get, what they want??? This is what they will get. But 10000x worse.. Live by the Sword, DIE by the sword.

"QUOTE"
Justin Moore, the Grand Dragon for the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan said plainly: “I’m glad that girl died.” Andrew Anglin, editor of the website The Daily Stormer, wrote that he was also glad that Heather Heyer died because she was unmarried and had no children. Anglin found her life, therefore, of “no value”.

So Hes GOD?????

Theres only 1 way to deal with someone like that.

Its Me, or Them. Simple as that. They will make me be like that. I wouldnt choose to, but Im not going to walk around and let this flourish, Unanswered. Im also married to a minority, and if 1 of them look at her wrong. It WILL be WW10
I wouldnt seek anyone out.

BUT DONT TREAD ON ME/OR MINE RIGHT?????

In prison you don't threaten people, if you want to live. The smallest guy can be the most dangerous, because they may be scared. And you don't want a scared person in prison, in close quarters afraid of you, or youll be on the wrong end of a shank, or a mop handle ringer to the face. Or even heat up Baby Oil.

I saw a guy get Boiling Vegetable Oil to the face, in the kitchen at federal prison. I worked in the kitchen 6 years.. You can imagine what it did. Eyes too. Guy never came back, and the other guy got another 10 years.

If youre going to do something. Just fuckin do it. Unannounced. No marching around strutting like a rooster, when in reality..

Ignorance demands recognition.

HOW IGNORANT IS IT THAT MOSTLY FULL GROWN ADULTS, THAT SHOULD KNOW BETTER, ARE WALKING AROUND CHANTING NAZI SLOGANS, KKK SIGNS, OPEN CARRY WEAPONS, SHIELDS ECT, RUNNING PEOPLE OVER IN CARS.

OUT FOREFATHERS FOUGHT AND DIED TO KILL THE FUCKIN NAZIS.

HELL THEYRE ON OUR SOIL NOW.

WHY SHOULD THE FIGHT STOP NOW???? HELL IF THEY THINK THEYRE GOING TO MARCH ON OUR STREETS FREELY, WITH NO REPROCUSSIONS, AND AFTER WE SENT MANY OF THEM TO HELL ALREADY??? ( THOUGH I DONT BELIEVE IN HEAVEN/HELL EITHER )

FIGHTS JUST BEGUN IF THEY WANT TO BRING IT ON AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED.

NAZI/KKK ECT START TROUBLE?.

NAZI HUNTERS ECT.. WILL FINISH IT.

ttystikk said:

Eat Buckwit's poop. You're already down there, kissing his ass on a daily basis.

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LOL

Which of the many propaganda websites you read told you this fake bit of history:

"There was plenty of violence against Nazis and Brownshirts in the 1930s. In both cases, the government used that violence to justify ever more severe crackdowns."

I told you anything coming from them is suspect.

The only action that will stop these neo-fascists while Trump is prez and a few years thereafter is defensive force when necessary. Results of the past year shows they didn't expect stout opposition.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/06/antifa-members-in-berkeley-smash-windows-us-marine-corps-recruiting-office-during-protest.html

yeah, these sound like reasonable people to me, who are only looking to stop hate crimes......
so what crimes did the marine recruiting station commit? was it holding a weapon? did it throw something at the antifa people?
these people sound about the same as the people they're fighting to me. assholes looking for an excuse to cause shit.
i don't like antifa, anymore than i like the fuckfaces they're "fighting"....as far as i'm concerned, one is the same as the other....violent people looking to start shit are the same, no matter what they call themselves or how they rationalize it

Roger A. Shrubber said:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/06/antifa-members-in-berkeley-smash-windows-us-marine-corps-recruiting-office-during-protest.html

yeah, these sound like reasonable people to me, who are only looking to stop hate crimes......
so what crimes did the marine recruiting station commit? was it holding a weapon? did it throw something at the antifa people?
these people sound about the same as the people they're fighting to me. assholes looking for an excuse to cause shit.
i don't like antifa, anymore than i like the fuckfaces they're "fighting"....as far as i'm concerned, one is the same as the other....violent people looking to start shit are the same, no matter what they call themselves or how they rationalize it

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First off, Fox news is a propaganda house organ for the right. Anything coming from that source is suspect.

Second, you are falsely equating antifa with white supremacists and fascists.

In that article Antifa broke some windows. Their protest was over endless war by the United States. What was done was illegal and anybody who does so should face legal action. I'm sure police will investigate to try to find out who did it.

Proud Boys break heads, terrorize religiously observant girls on public transportation and murder those who get in the way. Their demonstration in Portland was to support taking rights away from others in this country to make a white supremacist nation. Police are generally reluctant to investigate and the job falls on private people who do the detective work that eventually can lead to charges.

There is no comparison between the two to be made.

I have yet to hear how antifa has threatened any community with lynching. White supremacists do that all the time. You falsely conflate illegal actions during a protest with a valid complaint about people who advocate the violent overthrow our government and death to minorities.

Antifa broke windows to protest killings. Proud Boys breaks heads to gain attention for their cause of white supremacy and the death of everybody else.

I want peace in our streets too, just not the kind of peace that fascists and Proud Boys want.

Whelp, it takes a while. Charlottesville, Aug 2017 went down and it turned out to be a lead up to the main event held on Jan 6, 2021. This thread was written after they applied for a permit to come back to the scene of the crime. In retrospect, that was a bit naïve of them. Now, everything is different. But then again, not much has changed.

The civil trial to hold planners for this event accountable is about to begin. No idea how it will turn out. One thing that is certain, the assholes that did it are squealing loudly over this trial.

So, who are the defendants:

The defendants are 24 of the most infamous alt-right individuals and groups in the United States. They include Anglin Jason Kessler, Richard Spencer — who is representing himself at trial, Spitalnick said — Identity Evropa, Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the National Socialist Front. Last year, Spencer, who was once considered an intellectual leader of the alt-right movement, told the court that the lawsuit has been “financially crippling” to him.

To give perspective on how expensive the trial has become, the lawyers for the plaintiffs say they have spent 10 million dollars preparing for the trial. Meanwhile, defendants keep tripping themselves up. Spencer is crying poverty while others are being sanctioned for failing to cooperate with the court. They have been taken out of the political conversation. For them, it's all going to come down to whether or not a fair trial CAN be held, what with the long history of white supremacists tampering with juries. Also, it's going to be hard to prove the case. If they win, expect the lawyers to collect their fees from the fascists. Justice in the form of financial punishment. It's not the same as prison but the defendants are howling just the same.

Here's hoping for another win for justice through a "Floyd" outcome.


The lawyers are mostly Jewish, which also must chap the white fascists asses. Going into the trial, chances look good.

A 19th-Century Law Dismantled The KKK. Now It Could Bring Down A New Generation Of Extremists.

In a Virginia courthouse this week, a historic trial will begin that aims to unravel the real motivations of the far-right activists behind the 2017 Charlottesville riot.

www.huffpost.com

A 19th-Century Law Dismantled The KKK. Now It Could Bring Down A New Generation Of Extremists.
In a Virginia courthouse this week, a historic trial will begin that aims to unravel the real motivations of the far-right activists behind the 2017 Charlottesville riot.

Robbie Kaplan, a co-founder of Kaplan Hecker & Fink, was watching the rally on CNN from her new law firm in New York. She’d just opened the offices and they didn’t have much furniture. So they set up card tables, and about five or six of them were sitting around eating pizza while they watched. Screening the rally like a movie with the firm was a mistake, she admitted to me in a phone interview.
As the violence unfolded, a paralegal started crying and left the room.
Kaplan remembers thinking to herself that then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions might not do anything about the violence. But she thought maybe she could.
Kaplan called Karen Dunn, a litigator who specializes in conspiracy cases. She is a partner at Paul Weiss and a former federal prosecutor in Virginia.
“Would you like to sue some Nazis?” Kaplan asked.
“Of course,” Dunn replied.

The fascists went from "I want to hold an anniversary celebration for what we did in Charlottesville last year" to, "my lawyers tell me to not say anything". Well, that's an early win for the good side. Of course, not having Trump and his hand picked AG/personal lawyer in the White House to put their thumbs on the scale is helpful too. Thanks, President Joe Biden.