10-30-20 or 10-50-30 for flower?

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to what ratio you give your plants during flower?

I'm currently using a 10-30-20 mix but wondering if its worth switching to a higher pk mix.

Its a synthetic grow in coco and its in a flower tent where some plants are 2 weeks in and 5 weeks into flower.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Thanks spek for the numbers. Any pictures of your bud? There are products that claim dense bud by using their 0-0-50 formula. Does excess potassium give denser buds? Ive been giving them extra sea kelp which is high in P but I haven't noticed anything.
These are just companies trying to get your money. his ratios are spot on for most genetics. A lot of companies use a lil less K then i would like to see for soil but thats me. I'll grab a 1lb bag of 0-0-50 for 5 or 10 bucks and it will last 10 years.
"Excess K" will not give you denser buds , it will create a deficiency. Just the right amount of food will give you the densest flowers.
 

spek9

Well-Known Member
Thanks spek for the numbers. Any pictures of your bud? There are products that claim dense bud by using their 0-0-50 formula. Does excess potassium give denser buds? Ive been giving them extra sea kelp which is high in P but I haven't noticed anything.
No pics currently. I've ramped things down significantly over the past month. I've got plants in flower, but are only in week four. I can take pictures tonight.

Excess anything is bad for the plants. I give enough so they don't show deficiency, and back off if they show toxicity.
 

90'sStoner

Well-Known Member
No pics currently. I've ramped things down significantly over the past month. I've got plants in flower, but are only in week four. I can take pictures tonight.

Excess anything is bad for the plants. I give enough so they don't show deficiency, and back off if they show toxicity.
I grow organic, but pk boost with bat guano 8-29-2 and palm tree Ash 0-1-30 in equal parts. Find that's a good balance without overdoin it
 

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90'sStoner

Well-Known Member
Thanks spek for the numbers. Any pictures of your bud? There are products that claim dense bud by using their 0-0-50 formula. Does excess potassium give denser buds? Ive been giving them extra sea kelp which is high in P but I haven't noticed anything.
Imo density comes with balance rather than excess, but more so density comes from genetics
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Both are way too high in phosphorus.
Thanks spek for the numbers. Any pictures of your bud? There are products that claim dense bud by using their 0-0-50 formula. Does excess potassium give denser buds? Ive been giving them extra sea kelp which is high in P but I haven't noticed anything.
0-0-50 is just potassium sulfate. Those products are just repackaged K2SO4 with a huge markup. You can get a pound of water soluble K2SO4 for under $10.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Don't forget the N, they are doing some major growing right now. I run the same ratio all the way through, just change the concentrations.
Too many people go out of their way to cut out N while in flower when the plant still needs N in flower. Without nitrogen the plant can't produce chlorophyll which is required for the process of photosynthesis to occur. It also is used for nutrient uptake and believe it or not is used in the production of flowers. The fade with yellow leaves at harvest that some people think is is normal is actually a plant that has been starved of what it needs to reach maximum yield.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Too many people go out of their way to cut out N while in flower when the plant still needs N in flower. Without nitrogen the plant can't produce chlorophyll which is required for the process of photosynthesis to occur. It also is used for nutrient uptake and believe it or not is used in the production of flowers. The fade with yellow leaves at harvest that some people think is is normal is actually a plant that has been starved of what it needs to reach maximum yield.
i agree. N is by far the most used nute by the plant. green means go.
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Too many people go out of their way to cut out N while in flower when the plant still needs N in flower. Without nitrogen the plant can't produce chlorophyll which is required for the process of photosynthesis to occur. It also is used for nutrient uptake and believe it or not is used in the production of flowers. The fade with yellow leaves at harvest that some people think is is normal is actually a plant that has been starved of what it needs to reach maximum yield.
FINALLY ! somebody with some common sense! fuckin love this place sometimes. :clap::clap:
 

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
Too many people go out of their way to cut out N while in flower when the plant still needs N in flower. Without nitrogen the plant can't produce chlorophyll which is required for the process of photosynthesis to occur. It also is used for nutrient uptake and believe it or not is used in the production of flowers. The fade with yellow leaves at harvest that some people think is is normal is actually a plant that has been starved of what it needs to reach maximum yield.
Is some yellow good or bad at the end when just giving water the last 2 weeks? I'm doing 600-650ppm per watering, maybe 300ppm per watering at the end so there is no yellowing?
 

spek9

Well-Known Member
Is some yellow good or bad at the end when just giving water the last 2 weeks? I'm doing 600-650ppm per watering, maybe 300ppm per watering at the end so there is no yellowing?
Even full nutrients right up to the end might not completely stop the natural dying of the leaves at plant death (senescence). They'll typically start moving the mobile nutrients (N being one of them) from the leaves the plant won't need anymore to the seed/bud production.

Some strains it does, some it doesn't. Either way, discolouration of the plant's leaves is perfectly normal when reaching the plant's end of life.

Personally, I give full dose from beginning to the very end. It's just too much of a hassle to have to measure and keep track of different doses for different plants, especially when you're running three full perpetual operations at once. Most of my plants still show major discolouration nearing chop time.
 

90'sStoner

Well-Known Member
The fade with yellow leaves at harvest that some people think is is normal is actually a plant that has been starved of what it needs to reach maximum yield.
Is this true of organics too?? I mainly use manure, chicken poo and worm casting for my N and come flowering I top dress with bat guano 8-29-2 and palm tree Ash 0-1-30 (and again at week 5) but don't add anymore manure etc.

Should I be adding a lil with the guano and Ash?

I use the fade your talking about to tell me when to start checking trichs but if I could pack more weight on, sure that's the aim of the game
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Most annual flowering plants die from the top down. That means they yellow from the top not the bottom.

Is some yellow good or bad at the end when just giving water the last 2 weeks? I'm doing 600-650ppm per watering, maybe 300ppm per watering at the end so there is no yellowing?

Leaves are going to go yellow and die eventually. Cannabis is an annual flowering plant meaning it grows, flowers, produces seeds, and dies. The seeds start that process again. But because its flowering is also triggered by photoperiod it can be kept growing for years by manipulating the light hours to prevent it from flowering as is possible with thousands of other plants.

The leaves will yellow naturally on their own even if you're still feeding them up until the end because the plant is coming to the end of it's life cycle.

All too often what you see are plants weeks out from being done with yellow leaves that lack chlorophyll and are unable to produce the energy the flowers need to reach their full potential. That's caused by growers that switch to flower and seem obsessed with no N and more P/K. Then they start flushing weeks before the plant is close to being ready to harvest. The entire plant still needs nitrogen even in flower as it needs P/K. It's needed for too many plant functions to list. Yet right when those functions are the most important the plant is deprived by a nutrient it needs. It's like people are trying to make their plants leaves turn yellow.

Here's some examples of what I mean.

These plants were grown outside in 3 gallon pots of soil which are small to begin with. They were fed only a couple times with the rest of the watering being straight from the hose. They still had about 4 weeks left yet all the leaves are yellow from lack of nitrogen plus other nutrients. I have no doubt that had these plants been fed properly they would have produced 25 - 35% more bud by weight.





Here's some plants fed until the end. The leaves are yellowing because the plants are coming to the end of their life cycle. The leaves are yellowing more at the top than the bottom. Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient so if those leaves needed the nitrogen they would take it and the bottom leaves would go yellow first. As with most flowering annual plants the flowers will die off before all of the foliage. The plant will stop taking nitrogen when it doesn't need it anymore.

If you feed properly the plant will yellow on it's own when it's time. There is no need to force it. If you don't overfeed you'll always have healthy plants that will change on their own based on what stage they are in their lifecycle.

 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Most annual flowering plants die from the top down. That means they yellow from the top not the bottom.




Leaves are going to go yellow and die eventually. Cannabis is an annual flowering plant meaning it grows, flowers, produces seeds, and dies. The seeds start that process again. But because its flowering is also triggered by photoperiod it can be kept growing for years by manipulating the light hours to prevent it from flowering as is possible with thousands of other plants.

The leaves will yellow naturally on their own even if you're still feeding them up until the end because the plant is coming to the end of it's life cycle.

All too often what you see are plants weeks out from being done with yellow leaves that lack chlorophyll and are unable to produce the energy the flowers need to reach their full potential. That's caused by growers that switch to flower and seem obsessed with no N and more P/K. Then they start flushing weeks before the plant is close to being ready to harvest. The entire plant still needs nitrogen even in flower as it needs P/K. It's needed for too many plant functions to list. Yet right when those functions are the most important the plant is deprived by a nutrient it needs. It's like people are trying to make their plants leaves turn yellow.

Here's some examples of what I mean.

These plants were grown outside in 3 gallon pots of soil which are small to begin with. They were fed only a couple times with the rest of the watering being straight from the hose. They still had about 4 weeks left yet all the leaves are yellow from lack of nitrogen plus other nutrients. I have no doubt that had these plants been fed properly they would have produced 25 - 35% more bud by weight.





Here's some plants fed until the end. The leaves are yellowing because the plants are coming to the end of their life cycle. The leaves are yellowing more at the top than the bottom. Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient so if those leaves needed the nitrogen they would take it and the bottom leaves would go yellow first. As with most flowering annual plants the flowers will die off before all of the foliage. The plant will stop taking nitrogen when it doesn't need it anymore.

If you feed properly the plant will yellow on it's own when it's time. There is no need to force it. If you don't overfeed you'll always have healthy plants that will change on their own based on what stage they are in their lifecycle.

This whole post needs to be a sticky. This whole NO N thing resides at the top of the list of "problems" on this website. PLEASE RE READ what xtsho wrote. Our plants NEED n at all stages of life.
Post something that says "help im giving 1-1-2 food" .....first 20 posts will say "thats your problem, too much n for flowers" "Is that 1-1-2 even made for weed like my food is" ....blah bl;ah...
This is one of the best posts about N and flowering on the whole internet. Thanks @xtsho
 

90'sStoner

Well-Known Member
Most annual flowering plants die from the top down. That means they yellow from the top not the bottom.




Leaves are going to go yellow and die eventually. Cannabis is an annual flowering plant meaning it grows, flowers, produces seeds, and dies. The seeds start that process again. But because its flowering is also triggered by photoperiod it can be kept growing for years by manipulating the light hours to prevent it from flowering as is possible with thousands of other plants.

The leaves will yellow naturally on their own even if you're still feeding them up until the end because the plant is coming to the end of it's life cycle.

All too often what you see are plants weeks out from being done with yellow leaves that lack chlorophyll and are unable to produce the energy the flowers need to reach their full potential. That's caused by growers that switch to flower and seem obsessed with no N and more P/K. Then they start flushing weeks before the plant is close to being ready to harvest. The entire plant still needs nitrogen even in flower as it needs P/K. It's needed for too many plant functions to list. Yet right when those functions are the most important the plant is deprived by a nutrient it needs. It's like people are trying to make their plants leaves turn yellow.

Here's some examples of what I mean.

These plants were grown outside in 3 gallon pots of soil which are small to begin with. They were fed only a couple times with the rest of the watering being straight from the hose. They still had about 4 weeks left yet all the leaves are yellow from lack of nitrogen plus other nutrients. I have no doubt that had these plants been fed properly they would have produced 25 - 35% more bud by weight.





Here's some plants fed until the end. The leaves are yellowing because the plants are coming to the end of their life cycle. The leaves are yellowing more at the top than the bottom. Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient so if those leaves needed the nitrogen they would take it and the bottom leaves would go yellow first. As with most flowering annual plants the flowers will die off before all of the foliage. The plant will stop taking nitrogen when it doesn't need it anymore.

If you feed properly the plant will yellow on it's own when it's time. There is no need to force it. If you don't overfeed you'll always have healthy plants that will change on their own based on what stage they are in their lifecycle.

Super informative! I'm in the middle of flower at the minute, gotta topdress tonight. Don't usually add any extra chicken manure at this stage but I'm gonna try a 1/4 dose with the usual guano and palm ash
 
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